Time to reflect: Two alleged trades we didn't make

dagger · Post #1 » by **dagger** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:27 pm

We spend a lot of times proposing trades, but how about the rumored trades that don't go down - to the satisfaction of some and dismay of others.

Here are two:

Jose to Atlanta for Childress and the 11th pick.

Jose to Milwaukee for the 6th pick and Dan Gadzureek!

So how would our season have unfolded if we had made either of those trades? Those rumors tempted a lot of people here.

Seriously, this is why BC is paid the big bucks... sometimes it takes big stones to say no.

kcthekid · Post #2 » by **kcthekid** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:29 pm

i would have deeply considered the childress pick...i knew jose was good, but not this good...

dagger · Post #3 » by **dagger** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:31 pm

kcthekid wrote:i would have deeply considered the childress pick...i knew jose was good, but not this good...

We went and got Delfino to do what Childress does off the bench. I tell you this flat out: We do that trade and we flop records and playoff position with Atlanta.

Trilogy · Post #4 » by **Trilogy** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:33 pm

I would have been on the fence with both those deals.

I didn't really like anyone particularly in the draft though, that I would have been really eager to take. So I think I would have passed.

Tough decision though.

Consequence · Post #5 » by **Consequence** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:33 pm

Honestly, I was completely ready to make the trade for Childress and the 11th. Would I now? Not at all, but that isn't just because of the way Jose has played since he became a starter. The emergence of Moon and Delfino, as well as Kapono to a degree, as viable, if somewhat inconsistent, swingmen would really make the trade look out of balance. Even if we had picked up A.C. Law with the 11th selection like Atlanta eventually did, we wouldn't be as well off as we are now.

Post #6 » by **Schad** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:34 pm

Consider also that, with the #6 pick, the most logical choice would have been Corey Brewer...Bargs still looked strong, and our greatest need was an athletic SF that can play defense.

Brewer has certainly lived up to the latter, but he might also be the worst offensive swingman in the league.

whysoserious · Post #7 » by **whysoserious** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:36 pm

I'm glad we didn't trade Jose at all. I've been a proponent that a decision doesn't need to be made between Jose and TJ for another season after this one and I'll stick with that.

I always felt TJ was going to be the guy but the way Jose has played this last month, no one can deny how good he's been.

As for those trades, we would be in serious trouble if TJ went down and we didn't have Jose.

AfricanSensation · Post #8 » by **AfricanSensation** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:37 pm

BC is the one who wanted the 6th pick and Yi for Jose and the Bucks said no, not the other way around. At least according to everything I read.

Post #9 » by **supersub15** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:38 pm

Childress and 11th was not enough for me then and definitely not enough now. I wanted Marvin Williams or Josh Smith. That would have been a fair trade (and I think BC was holding off for one of these 2).

Yi and Gadz would have been nice, but where do you play Bosh, Bargnani and Yi?

Record-wise, we would've been in the lottery for sure, but that might not be a bad hit to take for one year, since we might get potentially an extra stud to work into the lineup.

Kosta · Post #10 » by **Kosta** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:39 pm

I don't even want to think of having to go through the torture of watching Calderon blossom into a top 5 point guard in Atlanta, setting up guys like Johnson, Smith, Horford and Williams. They'd be the most exciting promising young team in the league.

Lets just be thankful that didn't go down. And funny, at the time Hawks fans denied those rumors and felt dejected about the thought of it going down. Now, you ask? Hehe, they can only dream...

Raptors90102 · Post #11 » by **Raptors90102** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:42 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:Consider also that, with the #6 pick, the most logical choice would have been Corey Brewer...Bargs still looked strong, and our greatest need was an athletic SF that can play defense.

Brewer has certainly lived up to the latter, but he might also be the worst offensive swingman in the league.

IF we had made that deal for the 6 pick + Gadzuric, I would have dealt the 6th pick to Charlotte for their 8th and 22nd. I would have drafted Al Thornton with the 8th pick and flipped the 21st pick and Cash with the lakers for their 19th and would have drafted Crittenton.

Ford/Crittenton/DMart
AP / Delfino / Dixon
Thornton / Kapono / Moon
Bosh / Garbo / Joey
Bargz / Rasho / Hump

Spragga · Post #12 » by **Spragga** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:42 pm

What about Kris Humphries 4 the 20th pick which was supposed to be Belinelli? If the Warriors didnt take him and he was available would you still have done that trade?

dagger · Post #13 » by **dagger** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:43 pm

It's interesting how perceptions of trade value are formed. Jose's stock is up. Some people don't really believe he's an all-star, but he should be even if he isn't named to the team.

If you want a gauge of what he's worth, read Henry Abbott's blog entry on ESPN about why Portland might become a player in the Kidd to Dallas trade scenario. Basically, Abbott believes Portland brass sees only a handful of proven young point guards out there and that they chances of getting one other than via a trade are rare. Harris' numbers aren't as good as Jose's, and he's only two years younger at 24, but Portland has at least mulled giving up Frye, Jack and Outlaw plus some cap relief for the Nets to get Harris. They'd be taking a step back on the wing giving up Outlaw - it's not like they have another decent SF - but it would be the price for Harris.

So what is Jose worth? Probably a bit more, especially to a team that is looking for a playmaker PG as opposed to a high scoring PG. Imagine Jose setting up Roy, Aldridge. Oden, etc. But for me, I don't take Frye and Outlaw for Jose.

dagger · Post #14 » by **dagger** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:44 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:Consider also that, with the #6 pick, the most logical choice would have been Corey Brewer...Bargs still looked strong, and our greatest need was an athletic SF that can play defense.

Brewer has certainly lived up to the latter, but he might also be the worst offensive swingman in the league.

Brewer is a good defender, but I wouldn't use the sixth pick to get a defender unless he was a C or the only thing we lacked to be a title contender was strong perimetre D.

Post #15 » by **supersub15** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:47 pm

At this point in time, Jose's value is about the same as Deron Williams'. So, now, the question is, what would a team trade to get a Deron Williams?

dagger · Post #16 » by **dagger** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:47 pm

AfricanSensation wrote:BC is the one who wanted the 6th pick and Yi for Jose and the Bucks said no, not the other way around. At least according to everything I read.

Not as I have read it. The deal offered was 6th pick plus Gadz and his horrible contract.

Post #17 » by **Schad** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:48 pm

A little over a month ago, when Jose was just starting to really turn it on as a starter and Portland looked to be a mid-lotto team, some of their fans were interested in moving their first (in what I consider to be a very top-heavy draft) pre-draft for Calderon, even if it meant moving a pick 4-6. And his play has only improved from that point.

That's Gordon/Mayo/Lopez territory, which says quite a bit about Jose's value around the league, IMO.

Kosta · Post #18 » by **Kosta** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:49 pm

I'd also like to man up to one of the threads that I had during the summer on here, I was predicting a Jose trade by Colangelo to go down. I was adamant about him being on the block and being shopped hard around the league. I thought that we needed to fill in another need with T.J set to really shine. So although B.C was taking offers, hearing G.M's out, he was being truthful when he said we would keep Jose unless it was an absolute knockout offer. That one rumor about him countering the Childress/11 by asking for Smith, well I believe that one now.

I wonder if even Colangelo thought Calderon could be this good?

Raptors90102 · Post #19 » by **Raptors90102** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:49 pm

^^ Ditto. Jose's stock is rising like Crazy. If he makes the AllStar team (I sure hope so... I have waiting since morning for the good news to arrive), his value will skyrocket even more. Now, some people will argue that even Okur was an AllStar last year, doesn't mean he's a big ticket player. My counter argument is that Okur was perhaps the 4th best/important player on his team behind DWill, Booz and AK whereas Jose is clearly our 2nd best player hands down. Almost every Raptors fan billed our big 3 as Bosh/TJ/Bargz, I always countered saying that you gotta include Jose in there. Without Jose, we wouldn't be the team we are today. Mark my words, in a few year's time, Jose will be in the centre of legit MVP talks, all he needs is a team that is HIS where he doesn't have to share/plit minutes with an equally good player like TJ.

Maximillion · Post #20 » by **Maximillion** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:57 pm

From what I remember the majority of this board agreed with BC that the Jose trade to ATL for Childress/11th pick wasn't good enough (and the hypothetical counter of replacing Childress with either Marvin Williams or Josh Smith was doable).