we really should keep forderon, but is it redundant?

nivisi9 · Post #1 » by **nivisi9** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:55 pm

Like many raptor fans I've come to realize that keeping both Jose Calderon and TJ ford together for 48 Mins of great PG play every night is better then eventually having to choose one. However, will keeping both become redundant? We

cdel00 · Post #2 » by **cdel00** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:59 pm

Under the CBA is Jose's max offer from another team the MLE?

cdel00 · Post #3 » by **cdel00** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:01 pm

Trading Ford, Hump and Moon to the Clipps for Maggette and Croshere (from GSW) who get Cassel (from LAC) is workable and brings a valuable piece to Toronto . . .
http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=761986

bstein14 · Post #4 » by **bstein14** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:04 pm

Calderon will be wanting $75 million over 6 years.

Get ready to break the bank!

alpha · Post #5 » by **alpha** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:05 pm

1. Keep Caldereord
2. The days of the $20 Million player are over except for maybe Lebron
3. Don't want to start a TJ vs Jose thread again, but if anyone has to go it will be TJ (assuming anyone will take the risk) I think he will be a lot harder to trade because of his health concerns.

I think BC will continue to tinker until he can once again pull a rabbit out of a hat. He will wait until some GM is desperate as in the Mavericks case and strike.

AB_21 · Post #6 » by **AB_21** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:07 pm

Jose's good. But not as good as everyone's making him to be. He's not the best point guard ever...he's not the best one playing right now.

TheMainEvent · Post #7 » by **TheMainEvent** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:12 pm

AB_21 wrote:Jose's good. But not as good as everyone's making him to be. He's not the best point guard ever...he's not the best one playing right now.

I dont believe anyone said Jose was the best... now, or ever.

But bah @ another Jose/TJ thread. Ummmm... for me, Jose > TJ. I dont think keeping both around will be needed, and I dont think it will be done. Both Jose and TJ will want to start, no matter how kind and understanding they sound right now. There's no point in having a 8 million+ guy on the bench. IF TJ is willing to happily stay on the bench, then I'd prefer that. But I'm sure he'd get sour and bitter if he's benched next season and on.

Komodo · Post #8 » by **Komodo** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:15 pm

We trade Ford for the best quality return.

How does his BYC status work? Isn't it something like we can only take back 50% of the incoming player's salary? which would be 4 million or so...

I'm sure BC will address this in the summer.

metaldaze · Post #9 » by **metaldaze** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:17 pm

After the playoffs you will see why it's better to keep both guy's..... until you can add a third guard it's a huge risk. We have what most experts agree to be the best tandem in the league you can cause match up problems with both guy's and wear down the other team.

alpha · Post #10 » by **alpha** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:20 pm

AB_21 wrote:Jose's good. But not as good as everyone's making him to be. He's not the best point guard ever...he's not the best one playing right now.

He's the best the Raps have had in some time. The problem with the TJ fans on this board is they won't give credit where it's due. If it wasn't for Jose we'd be less than 500. What other back up point guard could have done what he's done?
When TJ has a good game or a string of them, then EVERYONE should say so
When Jose has done what he's done it's time to stop all the "he's not the best pg ever threads".
He's stepped up BIG TIME -- just admit it :banghead:

Post #11 » by **Morris_Shatford** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:46 pm

Even if you pay Jose more then TJ,

Our Point Guard situation is still more cost effective then the contract of Jason Kidd or Baron Davis,

The Letter V · Post #12 » by **The Letter V** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:54 pm

alpha wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

He's the best the Raps have had in some time. The problem with the TJ fans on this board is they won't give credit where it's due. If it wasn't for Jose we'd be less than 500. What other back up point guard could have done what he's done?
When TJ has a good game or a string of them, then EVERYONE should say so
When Jose has done what he's done it's time to stop all the "he's not the best pg ever threads".
He's stepped up BIG TIME -- just admit it

I think there are alot more TJ haters than there are Jose haters to be honest. Most of the time when people defend TJ, it's mostly due to the fact that the TJ haters get out of control.

tb40 · Post #13 » by **tb40** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:55 pm

Ford is untradeable right now because of his injury concerns, as has been stated several times already.

Therefore signing Calderon this off season is imperative, and when Ford can play risk free at some point down the line, then is when you think about the future of these two players together on this team.

nivisi9 · Post #14 » by **nivisi9** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:20 pm

Jose's good. But not as good as everyone's making him to be. He's not the best point guard ever...he's not the best one playing right now.

i didnt say he as the best. But as it has been mentioned before only like 5 players in the history of the game have shot as well as he has for an entire season. combine that with his efficency, and his AST/TO record breaking ratio....what else do you want?

reycat · Post #15 » by **reycat** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:12 pm

I think Forderon *is* a redundant concept, but I don't think it is something bad. What happens if Nash gets injured? And if Paul gets injured? And if (....) gets injured? You're screwed.

But with Forderon, the Raptors have 48 mins a game of amazing point guard game. And if either Ford or Calderon is injured, the Raptors still have about 40 mins of much-more-than-solid point guard game (I'm supposing that playing 40 mins a game would take its toll, although right now it doesn't seem to be happening).

Redundancy is good. Redundancy is used for airplanes, space rockets and computers. Redundancy is used for power supply in critical systems all around the world.

Redundancy is good. Long live Forderon!

3inakey · Post #16 » by **3inakey** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:43 pm

alpha wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

He's the best the Raps have had in some time. The problem with the TJ fans on this board is they won't give credit where it's due. If it wasn't for Jose we'd be less than 500. What other back up point guard could have done what he's done?
When TJ has a good game or a string of them, then EVERYONE should say so
When Jose has done what he's done it's time to stop all the "he's not the best pg ever threads".
He's stepped up BIG TIME -- just admit it

This is pretty much grandstanding. Barring some strange posters on the fringes TJ fans have always given Jose his due, they just defend what they consider unwarranted attacks on TJ's character or false statements. How is it difficult to say that he's clearly stepped up? He has. Who the heck is saying he hasn't? How is it possible for Jose fans to have a victim mentality?

Aside from criticism about Jose's defense and a hope that he takes advantage of his clearly superior shooting ability when needed (which he's been doing recently), Jose is one of the fan favourites both on realgm and in real-life Toronto. The wall you're banging your head against is imaginary.

nivisi9 · Post #17 » by **nivisi9** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:26 am

Ford is untradeable right now because of his injury concerns, as has been stated several times already.

Therefore signing Calderon this off season is imperative, and when Ford can play risk free at some point down the line, then is when you think about the future of these two players together on this team.

that pretty much sums up our situation as of now

Musashi · Post #18 » by **Musashi** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:52 am

tb40 wrote:Ford is untradeable right now because of his injury concerns, as has been stated several times already.

Therefore signing Calderon this off season is imperative, and when Ford can play risk free at some point down the line, then is when you think about the future of these two players together on this team.

My question is, how do we make Calderon and Ford on the court at the same time work? Obviously I dont see any big problems on offense, the concern is on defense and whose minutes go down. Playing zone defense makes sense but we dont have a real shotblocking presence inside to make it work. It is also difficult to have success with a zone for longer periods of time...Any suggestions?

Mr.Raptorsingh · Post #19 » by **Mr.Raptorsingh** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:53 am

I think Forderon becomes redundant when Ukic comes over next year. Unless the Ukic report is false, the Raptors have already reached an verbal agreement w/ Roko Ukic. With the way he has been playing this year, I believe Ukic is the forgotten guy in all potential moves regarding Forderon. To those who say Ukic will be garbage, how do you know? For all we know, he could become the next Ginobili. So that's why Ukic is the x-factor in all of the Calderon/Ford talks.

J Dilla · Post #20 » by **J Dilla** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:33 am

Im not for keeping both PGs. If the Raptors can trade both of them to get a good player, I'd say go for it. I mean, do you really need to spend 20 million dollars on two PGs to be a winning team? Look at Cleveland, Orlando, Boston, and Los Angeles. They seem fine with the PG's they have.

Only in Toronto the losses are blamed on the PGs ( TJ 95% of the times). The Raptors need a big man and a standout wing to win. Without that they will not win.