RealGM

Okay Guys this is my first time starting a thread, so take it easy on me

Before I say something, let me make it clear that I have been a huge supporter of Calderon from his first game in the Raptors uniform and felt like one day he could become a great point guard. Now I am not advocating that Calderon is great point guard yet, but in my opinion he needs to become a regular starter on fulltime basis and a couple of more years to be a great point guard in this league. I don

EDIT: I retract my rage ... I'm having a bad day

Atlanta - must sign Smith and Childress. Won't want to lose either for nothing, and Childress is now really playing well. Ownership is cheap and in chaos.

Clippers - really intent on keeping Maggette and Brand, because of his achilles injury, looks unlikely to opt out. Also, if Shaun Livingston is healed up by next season, as seems likely, he's somebody they will likely re-sign cheap.

Memphis - has good young point guard prospects and desperately wants to save money, probably to keep payroll low to sell the team.

Charlotte - Why? I'm not the biggest Felton fan, but do you think they are ready to write off the 5th pick in a draft so soon?

I'd recheck some of the math for particular teams. I think you are wrong. The salary cap is likely to be about $58 million, tops, and based on that Atlanta, with $40 million in current obligations and a need to sign Josh Smith for about $12-13 million - he is the emerging face of the franchise and a fan favorite who sells tickets - I don't see how they score Jose. I also think that Josh Childress' progress makes it hard for them to ditch him for nothing, and even if they trade him to another team with cap space, that only serve to keep the total market tight for free agents.

Teabag wrote:where's the option for "why do we need 17 threads on the 1st page about the same f'n thing?" ... cause I'd pick that one for sure

Did you read the whole post ?? cuz i would recommend you to read it first and respond. This is not a trade proposal for Calderon or Ford. It is about Bryan making or not making a move to upgrade us at the SF spot and our Salary Cap situation.

I think ATL would renounce Childress and risk losing him if they believed they had a serious shot at getting Calderon.

But IMO, Jose wouldn't be interested in signing with ATL unless we completely low balled him.

saham wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Did you read the whole post ?? cuz i would recommend you to read it first and respond. This is not a trade proposal for Calderon or Ford. It is about Bryan making or not making a move to upgrade us at the SF spot and our Salary Cap situation.

I appologize for the comment and retracted it but I guess it was too late ... it's been a long night and day

dagger wrote:
I'd recheck some of the math for particular teams. I think you are wrong. The salary cap is likely to be about $58 million, tops, and based on that Atlanta, with $40 million in current obligations and a need to sign Josh Smith for about $12-13 million -

I usually check hoopshype for salary situations, I am not sure how updated/accurate their numbers are.

IMO if Raps offer Jose 5 years 7 to 8 mill he accepts

IMO having about 16 mill a year invested in 48 mins of starting pg play is worth it

If push comes ot shove BC has to keep Jose over Ford because of the risks associated with TJ's health

saham wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Did you read the whole post ?? cuz i would recommend you to read it first and respond. This is not a trade proposal for Calderon or Ford. It is about Bryan making or not making a move to upgrade us at the SF spot and our Salary Cap situation.

I've said many times, more than I can count, that the path to elite status is not necessarily linear and will take 2-3 years, so it may not make good sense to trade a point guard until we get to the summer of 2009 or later. With Bargnani improving at both ends of the ball, with a draft pick and expiring contracts this summer, with the possibility to move assets like Kapono or value talents like Hump as part of packages, we have many ways to improve the team without taking on the elevated risk of another major Ford injury, and that same elevated risk makes Ford hard to trade. The best Ford trade options are likely to be players with similar risk levels, either injury risks or character risks and BC is certainly character risk-averse.

I think it short sighted to think we have to trade a PG to improve this team. Frankly, I wouldn't consider it for at least one more year.

saham wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I usually check hoopshype for salary situations, I am not sure how updated/accurate their numbers are.

Well, let's say they're accurate. They show Atlanta with $40 million in contract obligations, or about $18 million to spend under the cap. So to sign Jose for more than $10 million, they pretty much have to kiss off both Josh Smith and Josh Childress for nothing, nada, zilch, zippo. Or they have to dump other contracts. I know with caphold manipulation that they might sign Jose and Smith, but there is also financial reality and going into the payroll range that would take appears impossible in Atlanta for a multitude of reasons. And they don't have their first round draft pick, so they have less to offer to make a cap dump work.

It's not really more complicated than that.

Teabag wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I appologize for the comment and retracted it but I guess it was too late ... it's been a long night and day

Its okay. I was having a real bad day yesterday myself.

saham wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I usually check hoopshype for salary situations, I am not sure how updated/accurate their numbers are.

shamsports.com

dagger wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Well, let's say they're accurate. They show Atlanta with $40 million in contract obligations, or about $18 million to spend under the cap. So to sign Jose for more than $10 million, they pretty much have to kiss off both Josh Smith and Josh Childress for nothing, nada, zilch, zippo. Or they have to dump other contracts. And they don't have their first round draft choice, so they have less to offer to make a cap dump work.

It's not really more complicated than that.

I read/heard somewhere that Josh smith decilned an extension with Atlanta. It looks like that he wants more than 12 million and a long term contract? So if Atlanta throws 14+million at Josh Smith where do they get a point guard to put them over the hump just like we need a SF to become a contender. Also, they can move someone like Shelden Williams to make room to sign Calderon ? Do you think they would keep Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Josh Childress and not improve their point guard position when they have an opportunity to sign an emerging point guard such as Calderon ?

IMO, right now BC has no alternative to keep both, because TJ's health situation is so volatile.

It would be insane not to keep calderon and risking to end up without a great starting PG, and i would imagine the trade value of TJ right now must be very low.

That said, if there was a good offer or package including TJ, i think they'd take it and offload the risk of a career-ending injury. A risky move either way, because if TJ remains healthy, he will be a great PG for sure.

Assuming that TJ health issues are over, I personally think its worth to keep them both for next year even if it's expensive and then re-evaluate the following year (2009), possibly to put together a contender.

I'd rather have both of them being paid 8-9 million a year each. It's better to be paying them 16 mill~ combined than to pay someone like Jason Kidd the same each year. I doubt we could move TJ for much right now with his injury worries, and we can't trade Calderon because of the same worries.

Keep them both and try to land someone through FA.

I didn't read anything in this thread, but i'm just gonna go ahead and assume that if Roko comes over next year, then this entire situation will depend on his development.

If Roko develops and shows enough promise, or actually contributes enough to challenge for a regular spot on the roster, and not just be a bench player for garbage time, then I see a trade to accomodate the team accordingly.

By that, i mean if Roko improves throughout next year while on the team, then, with Calderon's contract being around 10 mill, he'd be able to fetch us a star player in return and allow for Roko to slide over to the SG/PG position, like a Barbosa. That would allow for more minutes for Ford, and a more complete roster, and ready for contention.

Of course, Ford and Calderon are pretty interchangeable in my hypothetical scenario.

Before TJ's injuries I would've answered "No." Now, because TJ's trade value is so low, it only makes sense to answer "Yes."

There's NO WAY we keep both PG's.

No matter who you think is better, lets face facts, if BC wants to get THE MOST out of "his PG" (whoever he favors) he needs to let that PG take ownership of the team and to play starter minutes. If we keep splitting minutes between two PG's it will eventually limit both of their ceilings.

We have to deal one of them in order to upgrade at the wing position. We're not getting a high draft pick, we never have luck in free agency, so if we're going to get to the next level you have to give something to get something.

Guys talking about Atlanta keep forgetting the phenomenon called Caphold. Atlanta can potentially sign Jose and Smith. Here's how:

- Chill's caphold is substantial, so they won't have enough cap space remaining to sign Jose if the give chill good money. So they renounce Chill. More on this later.

- Smith's caphold is very small (something like 3-4 million, which is great for them). So they can essentially delay Smith's extension for a few days and take a shot at Calderon.

- Lets say they offer Jose 10-11 per and he signs with them and Toronto declines to match and a S&T can't be worked out. Then Atlanta will have about 4 million in cap space (one you factor in Smith's caphold).

- Since they would have renounced Chilress already at the point, they could use the 4 million capspace to sign a comprable, young or a veteran FA SF like Barnes etc.

- Now, once they have signed Jose and a FA SF to fill in for Chill, they can extend Smith without worrying about capspace as he's their own player.

- They'll unfortunately loose Childress if they end up getting Jose. BUT lets say that Toronto matches Jose's salary, then Atlanta can basically renounce Chill's original renounement. It is allowed per CBA rules ONLY if their targetted RFA's (Jose's) original team matches the offer.

So they can take a gamble and see if they can land Jose. If they can't, they can always renounce their earlier renouncement of Chilldress and bring him back and offer him an extension.

dagger wrote:Clippers - really intent on keeping Maggette and Brand, because of his achilles injury, looks unlikely to opt out. Also, if Shaun Livingston is healed up by next season, as seems likely, he's somebody they will likely re-sign cheap.

I agree with most of what you said there, but saying that it's likely that Livingston recovers from his injury is just so inaccurate. It's not like he had a common injury that players have alot of history of returning and playing at a high level. This is very serious stuff and he's sustained alot of damage. There's probably a higher chance that he becomes the next Jay Williams than fully recovering.

My feeling on the subject as a whole is that I don't think that this team can count on Ford. If Jose leaves, the strength at PG can easily become a glaring hole.