Raps 2008 SF = 6'8" with Freakish Atleticism

[Respect]

Moon is purely an energy role player...he can't create his own shot

Basketball is 50% offense and 50% defense. People get hung up on scoring and forget the other side of the ball. Moon was second on the team, after Bosh, in Adjusted +/-, i.e. he may not score like a real SF would, but his defense was so good, it more than compensated for his weaker offensive game. I mean, check out some of the stats by the opposing SFs:

Luol Deng against Moon: 10.7 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.353 FG%
Luol Deng season averages: 17 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.479 FG%

Gerald Wallace against Moon: 14.7 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 0.371 FG%
Gerald Wallace season averages: 19.4 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 0.450 FG%

Paul Pierce against Moon: 17.0 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.391 FG%
Paul Pierce season averages: 19.6 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 0.464 FG%

I love it! Great insite.

Moon + Bosh + O'Neal = We're having a block party!
And everybody's invited.

And the list goes on and on.

[chsh22]

I'll take Jamario's D + 1 year of experience over Kapono's O in our system. Especially now that we have Jermaine O'Neal. We will probably be one of the best defensive teams (top 5 at least I think) in the league next year, which is a huge improvement from our position last year at ~25th.

I do happen to think our second unit will be in trouble without Delfino though.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

If Moon wants to stay in the starting lineup, he's got to straighten that elbow of his on his jumper or at least have it flare the same way each time. It just seems lucky when he hits, his shot never looks the same twice. Toward the end of the season, teams weren't paying him any attention at all, they were just crowding Bosh with their SF. It killed us, because he either couldn't or wouldn't put it on the floor to make the defense adjust. He'll probably never be a ball-handler or develop a pull-up jumper, but he has to be a threat to hit open shots.

If he could hit baseline jumpers with consistency, from one spot on each side (left side to start would be nice) he could be a viable starting option. It doesn't have to be a three, 15 feet will do. And he's also got to get stronger.

[dagger]

I'll take Jamario's D + 1 year of experience over Kapono's O in our system. Especially now that we have Jermaine O'Neal. We will probably be one of the best defensive teams (top 5 at least I think) in the league next year, which is a huge improvement from our position last year at ~25th.

I do happen to think our second unit will be in trouble without Delfino though.

Actually, I don't think Jamario's D is that much better than Kapono. Jamario is a great help defender, but like Kapono, bites on too many fakes, especially out at the perimetre. Surely Jamario led us in four point plays given the other team. Kapono is slow, but he hustles, and he generally understands the principles of good defence but lacks the athleticism to be a really good defender. Offensively, however, there is little doubt in my mind that Kapono should be more valuable with JO and Bosh on the floor. If Moon was an aggressive slasher or created his own shot, it might be different, but when Moon relies too much on his shot, he's below average, whereas you can park Kapono in the corner and it forces teams to cover him, which will help Bosh and JO, and if they double those two, it should also mean open looks for JK.

[bakafool]

Jamario used to be great on D and wouldn't bite too much on fakes. Then all of a sudden as the season progressed, he started biting on them. Jamario has to concentrate on playing fundamental D.

[PimpHandStrong]

That said...we can only hope that Calderon surprises everyone and takes his game to even another level...

ie: the level of the chris paul, deron williams and steve nash...

personally i think and hope he can do that...if so..i don't see why this team cannot be a championship contender...this year...

Name is common denominator with the three guys you mentioned. Actually better yet what skill set does Jose possess that is even relative to the guys you mentioned?

Jose is a very, very poor mans John Stockton. The three you mentioned are in a class of their own.

I swear i thought that i mention going up another level for Calderon to be mentioned with them...

BTW...when TJ was out...only Chris paul and Deron Williams were better point guards than him...I even remember a game against NO that Calderon outplayed Chris Paul...

But yes...he needs to take his game to another level fulltime...

Don't get me wrong, I love Jose, and on one side of the ball he's very Stocktonesque. Unfortunately, neither Jose nor any of the other three PGs listed are 1/2 the defender Stock was.

As a Jazz homer, it's always fun to point out that Chris Paul was lit up by a lot of opposing point guards this season. Deron is clearly the best man defender of the 4 (Nash, Calderon, Paul, Williams).

I'm from Toronto originally, and was an original season ticket holder before moving to Northern California, and try to catch as many Raps games as possible (this season I watched at least part of more than half of all Raps games on League Pass). Seems to be Anthony Parker can create his own shot decently, and is a pretty good clutch player to boot. CB isn't bad finding his own shot either, and the interior help defense probably won't be nearly as quick to get to Bosh with JO on the floor. Obviously, AP can't be a longterm solution, but he's serviceable for this season. With the Lakers and Celtics looking good for the next couple years (Kobe and Fish's age will likely catch up to them sooner rather than later), the Raps shouldn't be in any big rush to win a championship NOW.

[rapzfan4lyfe]

y did u give an extra inch on height for bosh and jose? i remeber bosh sayin on jay leno he was 6'11 but dats bull..and jose is 6'3

[chsh22]

Actually, I don't think Jamario's D is that much better than Kapono. Jamario is a great help defender, but like Kapono, bites on too many fakes, especially out at the perimetre. Surely Jamario led us in four point plays given the other team. Kapono is slow, but he hustles, and he generally understands the principles of good defence but lacks the athleticism to be a really good defender. Offensively, however, there is little doubt in my mind that Kapono should be more valuable with JO and Bosh on the floor. If Moon was an aggressive slasher or created his own shot, it might be different, but when Moon relies too much on his shot, he's below average, whereas you can park Kapono in the corner and it forces teams to cover him, which will help Bosh and JO, and if they double those two, it should also mean open looks for JK.

You really have to lay off the crack man. Kapono basically just steered his man as best he could into the paint, while Jamario actually played defense. Jamario might have led us in 4 point plays caused, but he also rebounds very well and blocks a ton more. Biting on fakes relates to experience anyways.
It's really hard to even compare them because Kapono got less than 20MPG on the season.

I'm not saying we couldn't use Kapono effectively, and that there are no reasons to believe he *could* work as the starting SF, I just think Jamario's defense added to JO/Bosh will put us at the top of the league, and offensively he isn't a liability.

Either way, I think a lot of teams will be forced to stay on their man against us.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Any word on what Jamario is doing this summer? The NBA is quite poor for adjusting game plans for in-season scouting, during the regular season at least- but Jamario is officially on the scouting report next year and will surprise no one.

As his game stands now, you post him up and pump-fake him with a bigger player, or blow by him (with your strong hand if you want) with a smaller player. On defense, you put a tall player on him, and help OFF him and ON the post ...leave him wiiiiiiide open... and use that tall player to box him out.

He'd better be lifting, eating and shooting, wherever he is and whoever he's training with. If he still can't believe his skinny butt made it to the NBA, he's in for a season of physical abuse by opponents and verbal abuse from Sam.

[underdog33]

Actually, I don't think Jamario's D is that much better than Kapono. Jamario is a great help defender, but like Kapono, bites on too many fakes, especially out at the perimetre. Surely Jamario led us in four point plays given the other team. Kapono is slow, but he hustles, and he generally understands the principles of good defence but lacks the athleticism to be a really good defender. Offensively, however, there is little doubt in my mind that Kapono should be more valuable with JO and Bosh on the floor. If Moon was an aggressive slasher or created his own shot, it might be different, but when Moon relies too much on his shot, he's below average, whereas you can park Kapono in the corner and it forces teams to cover him, which will help Bosh and JO, and if they double those two, it should also mean open looks for JK.

You really have to lay off the crack man. Kapono basically just steered his man as best he could into the paint, while Jamario actually played defense. Jamario might have led us in 4 point plays caused, but he also rebounds very well and blocks a ton more. Biting on fakes relates to experience anyways.
It's really hard to even compare them because Kapono got less than 20MPG on the season.

I'm not saying we couldn't use Kapono effectively, and that there are no reasons to believe he *could* work as the starting SF, I just think Jamario's defense added to JO/Bosh will put us at the top of the league, and offensively he isn't a liability.

Either way, I think a lot of teams will be forced to stay on their man against us.

Jamario's Man on Man Defense is not as poor as many make it out to seem, I think. He does tend to gamble and bite on pump fakes, but I agree it's something experience can help to combat. One on One, he changes a LOT of shots. Either through good timing and athleticism, or getting into the shooter's heads that he's going to block the shot. He doesn't get blown by and he doesn't reach and with his arms in the way Kapono does a lot, although he does get bullied around by stronger players, but I remember a few games against Carmelo Anthony, he held his own at times.

Basically his help defense is not light years ahead of his man-to-man, as he can do a fairly good job with the latter

[|llsT oNe]

The big problem is both he and AP have too passive a personality, and can disappear for stretches. We need one aggressor on the wings who will impose his will on the game.

[223red]

The big problem is both he and AP have too passive a personality, and can disappear for stretches. We need one aggressor on the wings who will impose his will on the game.

Not gonna get one. Whenever Moon is on the court he will be left wide open to hit 20-footers or 3's - if he is interested in a long-term deal to make him rich he is practising those jumpers 6 hours a day.

[Respect]

The big problem is both he and AP have too passive a personality, and can disappear for stretches. We need one aggressor on the wings who will impose his will on the game.

Not gonna get one. Whenever Moon is on the court he will be left wide open to hit 20-footers or 3's - if he is interested in a long-term deal to make him rich he is practising those jumpers 6 hours a day.

Hopefully those were the end of season instructions given to him by both Sam & BC.

[cdel00]

Moon had alot of youthful exuberance in his rookie year. With a year under his belt now he knows what to expect and hopefully won't be as star struck. He's got talent, athleticism and loves stopping people. I expect more out of Moon this year though. I would like to see him really become a blocking force and rebound hound. In 25 mins he could easily put up 10pnts / 8 rebs / 2 blocks / 2 steals a game with his length and hops. That is the Moon i hope to see.

[ilikecb4]

Yeah but Moon better start taking the rock to the basket

Screw midrange shots

i have no problem him starting as long as he don't shoot too much

Kapono should be doing most of the shooting

[HiJiNX]

I think Moon is a better shooter than most people give him credit for. His 15-footer is reliable, from out to 20 feet, he's pretty average, but has little 3-point range. He can definitely use improvement, but he's not a complete liability either. We all know Moon didn't get as many layups/dunks as his athleticism would suggest, yet he still had a pretty damn good FG% for a guy who can't shoot. He also demonstrated marked improvement as the season progressed (as his shooting mechanics became more refined and consistent with every attempt as the season went on). Here are his FG% and 3FG% by month.

November 43.8% and 28.6%
December 44.3% and 20.0%
January 48.0% and 33.3%
February 51.6% and 37.0%
March 55.7% and 34.6% (NOTE: this is the month in which we played the most games with 17)
April 46.9% and 40.0%

Pre-ASG 46.2% and 29.7%
Post-ASG 52.3% and 36.2%

Season 48.5% and 32.8%

(splits from yahoosports)

It's also interesting to note that Moon achieved these FG% statistics with 67% of all his FG attempts as jumpers (82games.com) which seems to be about average for starting SFs around the league. So he's shooting a good FG% taking an amount of jumpers comparable to the rest of the league at his position.

I don't think we should be worried about Jamario's shooting too much as he's shown he can hit the jumper if left open.

In debating the merits of Jamario's defensive presence and reliable jumper vs Kapono's horrible defense and amazing jumper, for last season the team had a eFG% of +4.3 with Jamario Moon on the court and an eFG% of -2.1 with Kapono on the court (stats from 82games.com). Admittedly, these statistics have confounds, most notably that Moon as a starter probably logged more minutes with our more talented players which could skew these stats in his favour. However, these stats point us to what I think many of us have seen with our eyes, and that is that Moon's good defense and average offense do more for us than Kapono's terrible D and slightly above average offense. However, the situation will be different this year and our SF will have many more wide open jumpers to knock down, so an argument CAN be made for Kapono starting (as Dagger pointed out earlier in this thread).

My main point with this post is that Moon really isn't as bad a shooter as we think he is, and he has definitely improved. However, that is not to say that his mid-range cannot become more consistent and that his 3-point range should not be worked on as well.

[Joker]

Most people on this board are seeking that elusive wing player that Raps need to land. When you think about it, what we want is a 3 man with length, athleticism, defensive ability, and a decent offensive game (10 to 12 ppg).

We have it. JAMARIO MOON! As a rookie he averaged 8.5 ppg & 6.5 rpg in 27.8 min/gm. There's no reason why he shouldn't improve (he's 28 yrs old) to 10+ ppg in his 2nd year if he's given the stability of Jose as a full time starting PG and people having to double off onto both Bosh & JO.

Our lineup would be:

STARTERS = 72 ppg
PG - Jose 6' 4" (15 ppg, 11 apg)
SG - Parker 6' 7" (10 ppg, 4 rpg)
SF - Moon 6' 8" (10 ppg, 7 rpg, 1.5 bpg)
PF - Bosh 6' 11" (22 ppg, 9 rpg, 1.5 bpg)
C - O'Neal 6' 11" (15 ppg, 9 rpg, 1.5 bpg)

BENCH = 36 ppg
PG - Roko, ? (4 ppg combined)
SG - Adams, ? (6 ppg combined)
SF - Kapono, Graham, (12 ppg combined)
PF/C - Bargs, Hump, Nathan (14 ppg combined)

With the little cap space BC has left, he needs to pickup a backups at PG & SG for NBA minimum contracts.

Wait, being 28 is an asset, not a liability, to improvement?

[Respect]

^^
That was my point. I guess I should have wrote "he's only 28 years old".

Also, interesting stats by HiJiNX. Moons shooting ability & shot mixture really seamed to be in line for an NBA SF. I guess everyone (including SAM) just expects him to take it to the hole more often, but hey, weren't we saying the same thing about VC at times.

[The Main Event]

That said...we can only hope that Calderon surprises everyone and takes his game to even another level...

ie: the level of the chris paul, deron williams and steve nash...

personally i think and hope he can do that...if so..i don't see why this team cannot be a championship contender...this year...

Name one common denominator with the three guys you mentioned? Actually better yet what skill set does Jose possess that is even relative to the guys you mentioned?

Jose is a very, very poor mans John Stockton. The three you mentioned are in a class of their own.

The fact that you're mentioning Jose in the same breath as Stockton speaks voumes. You're comparing a 3rd year rook to a 20 year perrenial all-star !! haha. Go look at Stockton numbers in his 3rd year, Jose isn't all that far off my friend.

[underdog33]

Just read on Doug Smith's Blog

Oh, and one name I didn’t hear around the summer league team was Jamario Moon. There seems to be some question of whether or not he’ll play. I can’t see why he wouldn’t (it’s not like his game is entirely polished) but it’s not 100 per cent yet that he’ll be there.

He'd better get his ass to the summer league team to work on his game. Unless he's training epic-ly like Rocky/Bruce Wayne/Karate Kid I won't forgive him