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Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship

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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#161 » by cchrome » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:20 pm

supersub15 wrote:
cchrome wrote:Hump not supposed to be there and Joey I expect to not be there, could be down to 62 in 1 move for an expiring


Hump signed a 3-year deal. He's there alright. And Joey should be there, unless we trade him, in which case replace his $3M salary by somebody else's $3M salary. Back to square one. :wink:


3 year deal? I was assuming that he received a qualifing, this year being the forth. He signed a new deal? When? Not sure how he's going to get a lot of time if Jawai plays well (which I think he can), but, ok, should be traded with Joey anyways, only about what 5-15 min left after Bargs comes out..... as for Joey I was saying this years deadline, in that case both of them for an expiring big (doesn't have to be too good, more presence and coaching tips for Bargs, like Jason Collins or if nothing else Adrian Griffin & Robert Swift, along those lines).
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#162 » by cchrome » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:28 pm

cheapfoul wrote:
Marvin! wrote:the over-rating of Corey Maggette has reached epic proportions around here. It's just so absurd.


Exactly.

If people really wanna complain about this deal, they should be complaining about the fact that we didn't trade Ford for Wallace straight up and then use our 17th on Hibbert (for lack of a better big man available at 17. He's comparable offensively. He's better defensively. He's slightly cheaper. He's not lazy. He's not a cancer. He's younger


Ford for Wallace straight up? that was the offer, wow, thats a good trade, wait didnt he just sign a long deal? if 4-5 left over 11 mil a year id pass. We'd still get dismantled by D20 unless you think Hibbert could guard him. U dont think Hibbert could guard Dwight................do U?

And I dont want to jump all over this but, who are you saying this in comparison to 'He's comparable offensively. He's better defensively. He's slightly cheaper. He's not lazy. He's not a cancer. He's younger'. I hope not JO, cause Im not sure how to respond to that.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#163 » by cheapfoul » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:36 pm

cchrome wrote:
cheapfoul wrote:
Marvin! wrote:the over-rating of Corey Maggette has reached epic proportions around here. It's just so absurd.


Exactly.

If people really wanna complain about this deal, they should be complaining about the fact that we didn't trade Ford for Wallace straight up and then use our 17th on Hibbert (for lack of a better big man available at 17. He's comparable offensively. He's better defensively. He's slightly cheaper. He's not lazy. He's not a cancer. He's younger


Ford for Wallace straight up? that was the offer, wow, thats a good trade, wait didnt he just sign a long deal? if 4-5 left over 11 mil a year id pass. We'd still get dismantled by D20 unless you think Hibbert could guard him. U dont think Hibbert could guard Dwight................do U?

And I dont want to jump all over this but, who are you saying this in comparison to 'He's comparable offensively. He's better defensively. He's slightly cheaper. He's not lazy. He's not a cancer. He's younger'. I hope not JO, cause Im not sure how to respond to that.


1. Yes. Papers reported that one of the deals we left on the table was a straight up swap for Gerald Wallace/TJ Ford

2. Sorry about not being clear. The two players I was comparing in my mini rant were Gerald Wallace and Corey Maggette. Other than the fact that he is a better free throw shooter and it very talented at getting to the line, I don't see any benefit to obtaining Maggette over Wallace.

3. I believe Wallace signed a 6 year deal last season for around 57 mill if I'm not mistaken. It's pretty similar to the time/money commitment we'd have to give Maggette had we signed him
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#164 » by don't panac » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:44 pm

assuming that JO is healthy, the move should make the raptors significantly better in the immediate giving up very little in terms of the team strengths, and I really haven't heard any serious suggestion that it is a championship now move.

an almost guaranteed consequence of the team becoming better is that that the players also acquire experience and become more valuable assets, so that additional upgrades become viable in the future through trades or signing.

given that toronto doesn't appear to be a geographical mecca for many players, a wining record becomes essential to entice them to join the raps.

with a good upcoming year, to which a healthy and motivated JO will certainly be instrumental for, the value of people like bargs, kapono or moon (and possibly even graham and humps) will increase either directly for their role on the team or indirectly as trading chips.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#165 » by SHootaR » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:21 pm

Shaazzam wrote:
Whose philosphies were abondoned?

BC's?

I would say it was D'Antoni's. BC built a team for him.

Who was the happiest guy on the podium yesterday?

Mitchell. Because he got a big who could play defence and rebound, as well as get touches in the mid-to-low post and also kept a PG that he is very happy with moving forward. TJ was brought in at a time when we had no legit number #1 PG. And that asset has now been flipped to acquire somehting else we didn't have, a defensive presence. And that was done by the GM.

So I'm not sure which philosphy of BC's you are talking about that has been thrown out with the bath water. And I'm not sure why jumpshooting is such a bad thing. If you can't shoot, you aren't going to win. Eventually you need to outscore your opponent, and if you are forced looking to grind things out in the half court, you are going to have to hit some shots. And guess what acquiring another mid post guy is going to generate? Even more space for our jump shooters to be effective.

Now do we still need to do a better jump getting to the line and manufacturing points in that manner? I'd say yes, we do. But the thing with the scoring wing is that it's fairly difficult to find one that is efficient offensively, gets to the line, and can play defence.

SHootaR wrote:But we can swing a deal using rasho/bargs/parker ala lakers and get a 4th piece along with some nice youngins.


So if we have those four pieces are we not in win now mode?


BC's philosophies. If you haven't noticed, but in Phoenix, and Toronto, both philosohies he wanted to bring to the team have been abandoned. The run n gun all offense philosophies. Phoenix finally realized they'd had enough of it, and got Shaq to clog the middle (which would have NEVER been done in BC era where he wanted shots shots shots up and down up and down etc). Same goes here. He wanted that type of offense to begin with if you remember. This is also came into play with the Bargnani draft pick. Did you forget so soon? He was salivating at a big who could play in this offence he had fantasies about. Well we've all seen that come crashing down. The team has transitioned from that run n gun team that stemmed the Bargnani pick, to a slow halfcourt team with throwing the ball into Bosh and JO.

and i don't understand you're last comment. Yes we'd be in a win now mode with my propisition, except we'd be much deeper and have a good wing player along with a 17th pick being groomed. The difference being this 'win-now' team is not a complete win now team with gaping holes in the starting lineup.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#166 » by SHootaR » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:23 pm

Marvin! wrote:the over-rating of Corey Maggette has reached epic proportions around here. It's just so absurd.


great reasoning. lebrons overated too.

that was ez.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#167 » by SHootaR » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:30 pm

cchrome wrote:
Whats wrong with being a good (ill upgrade to Great) 6th man? What are you saying about Manu's game? And Mags isnt injury prone? seems odd that in a discussion of being injury prone you'd only quote the last 2 years. What does Maggette bring as well as his Elite scoring, last time I checked JO Scorer Rebounder Positional/weakside Defender and Locker Room Presence, plus a 6 time all-star not sure how you can argue with that


you're comparing apples and mango's

one cost a **** more...most of us would love mango's for the same price.


maggette brings 20+ pts a game, which is massive for this team...he brings a player that will actually drive to the hoop and slash..which again, is massive for this team and a huge hole. he brings toughness/rebounding for a wing, 6 a game...which again is massive for this team.

he doesnt bring much defence granted. but our present wings have trouble with that as well. and my point is, with the asset of rasho's contract...we'd still be able to make a big deal at the deadline with bargs contract included, AP's etc like the lakers got gasol.

TJ/Jose
Maggette
Moon
Bosh
Gasol? (obv not gasol but we'd be able to get a very nice big for rasho + bargs + ap etc)

vs.

Jose
AP
Moon
Bosh
JO

i'll take the first lineup.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#168 » by cheapfoul » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:31 pm

What are these "gaping holes" in the starting lineup you speak of? As I see it,

O'neal
Bosh
Kapono
Parker
Calderon

I don't see a gaping hole anywhere in that starting 5. In fact, I think Parker and Kapono get significantly better by adding Oneal.

Our only issue is depth right now in my view. We don't know what we're going to get out of Ukic, Bargnani may or may not improve, and Joey Graham is, well, Joey Graham. Our bench isn't stellar by any means.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#169 » by Prop » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:43 pm

SHootaR wrote:
cchrome wrote:
Whats wrong with being a good (ill upgrade to Great) 6th man? What are you saying about Manu's game? And Mags isnt injury prone? seems odd that in a discussion of being injury prone you'd only quote the last 2 years. What does Maggette bring as well as his Elite scoring, last time I checked JO Scorer Rebounder Positional/weakside Defender and Locker Room Presence, plus a 6 time all-star not sure how you can argue with that


you're comparing apples and mango's

one cost a **** more...most of us would love mango's for the same price.


maggette brings 20+ pts a game, which is massive for this team...he brings a player that will actually drive to the hoop and slash..which again, is massive for this team and a huge hole. he brings toughness/rebounding for a wing, 6 a game...which again is massive for this team.

he doesnt bring much defence granted. but our present wings have trouble with that as well. and my point is, with the asset of rasho's contract...we'd still be able to make a big deal at the deadline with bargs contract included, AP's etc like the lakers got gasol.

TJ/Jose
Maggette
Moon
Bosh
Gasol? (obv not gasol but we'd be able to get a very nice big for rasho + bargs + ap etc)

vs.

Jose
AP
Moon
Bosh
JO

i'll take the first lineup.


first off, everyone and their nanny knew that we weren't keeping both PGs. 2ndly, either way, you are still looking to land a good big man, except you assume we'd just be able to do it mid-season and land someone at the level of gasol/o'neal.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#170 » by Shaazzam » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:46 pm

No, that was D'Antoni's system. Notice how he is now at another team? Let's see what their style of play is this year. Actually I really want to see how he responds now that he doesn't have the PG that can headman the ball like Nash can. It will be interesting to see how or if he he adapts, because that is the mark of a professional. Core beliefs are fine, but there must always be some flexibility. That's not to say that BC didn't agree with it. BUt to solely attribute it as his system is foolhardy.

And the "run'n'gun" lasted all of ten games here. We didn't ever have the personnel for it.

(which would have NEVER been done in BC era where he wanted shots shots shots up and down up and down etc)


You are trying to play both sides of the fence here. First you say that he has abandoned his philosophy of the run'n'gun here and then you say that if he would have never left PHO than there style would have never changed. Which is it?

Is he a beaten, defeated man who has the world crumbling around him and is now grasping at straws?

The whole idea that BC is not willing to change, and that he is so inflexible that he would follow things blindly until the end has absolutely zero proof. Ever since he has been here he has preached the importance of maintaining that flexibility so that future changes can be made. In order to be open to change, you have to always be willing to gather and analyze new information in order to make the best decision at the time. BC has never been one to be definitive in "this is the way it's going to be" except on the idea that he wants players that want to play here and that we can always get better.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#171 » by Shaazzam » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:55 pm

SHootaR wrote:
cchrome wrote:
Whats wrong with being a good (ill upgrade to Great) 6th man? What are you saying about Manu's game? And Mags isnt injury prone? seems odd that in a discussion of being injury prone you'd only quote the last 2 years. What does Maggette bring as well as his Elite scoring, last time I checked JO Scorer Rebounder Positional/weakside Defender and Locker Room Presence, plus a 6 time all-star not sure how you can argue with that


you're comparing apples and mango's

one cost a **** more...most of us would love mango's for the same price.


maggette brings 20+ pts a game, which is massive for this team...he brings a player that will actually drive to the hoop and slash..which again, is massive for this team and a huge hole. he brings toughness/rebounding for a wing, 6 a game...which again is massive for this team.

he doesnt bring much defence granted. but our present wings have trouble with that as well. and my point is, with the asset of rasho's contract...we'd still be able to make a big deal at the deadline with bargs contract included, AP's etc like the lakers got gasol.

TJ/Jose
Maggette
Moon
Bosh
Gasol? (obv not gasol but we'd be able to get a very nice big for rasho + bargs + ap etc)

vs.

Jose
AP
Moon
Bosh
JO

i'll take the first lineup.


You really, really must come with more to the table than saying we can trade for Gasol at the deadline. Who can we get? Which big fits the bill? Gasol was on the market for a long time and he went no where, until the tipping point had occurred.

Who else is in that situation? That's an honest question, because I don't know, and if you could provide a few we could discuss those possibilities.
With defence and rebounding still being the major issues on this team after acquiring Maggette, does that allow for any lessening of the load on and help protect our number one asset in Bosh? Does it still not force Bargnani into a position where he is "competing" for minutes with Rasho?

Additionally, we would be playing with a player who has had chemistry issues on previous teams who just got signed to a fat contract for 5 years, as opposed to a player who is looking to rehabilitate his value so he can paid one more time.

I'd rather have a player playing for a contract than playing after a contract.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#172 » by SHootaR » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:09 pm

Shaazzam wrote:No, that was D'Antoni's system. Notice how he is now at another team? Let's see what their style of play is this year. Actually I really want to see how he responds now that he doesn't have the PG that can headman the ball like Nash can. It will be interesting to see how or if he he adapts, because that is the mark of a professional. Core beliefs are fine, but there must always be some flexibility.

And the "run'n'gun" lasted all of ten games here. We didn't ever have the personnel for it.

(which would have NEVER been done in BC era where he wanted shots shots shots up and down up and down etc)


You are trying to play both sides of the fence here. First you say that he has abandoned his philosophy of the run'n'gun here and then you say that if he would have never left PHO than there style would have never changed. Which is it?

Is he a beaten, defeated man who has the world crumbling around him and is now grasping at straws?

The whole idea that BC is not willing to change, and that he is so inflexible that he would follow things blindly until the end has absolutely zero proof. Ever since he has been here he has preached the importance of maintaining that flexibility so that future changes can be made. In order to be open to change, you have to always be willing to gather and analyze new information in order to make the best decision at the time. BC has never been one to be definitive in "this is the way it's going to be" except on the idea that he wants players that want to play here and that we can always get better.


i'm not trying to play both sides...you misquoted what i said obviously. i said BC would never have (past tense) gotten shaq during his era with phoenix..never suggested he wouldnt have written his wrong NOW. but back then, it would have dismantled their run n gun theory (if u want to bring dantoni into it without faulting BC at all, i will use 'they' instead of 'he' b/c its absurd to expect a GM to have no power).

and everyone speaks of this 10 day turnaround where BC threw his plans out the window, well guess what...we'd already drafted bargnani with his dreams of the run n gun, centre firing from 3 pt land like its no ones business etc. that was his biggest mistake and was an unforgivable one. we have bosh at the 4. bargs is neither a SF or a C...if you believe so fine, i wont argue with it cuz its nonsense imo. he's a PF. BC set our franchise back so much with that waste.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#173 » by SHootaR » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:16 pm

Shaazzam wrote:
SHootaR wrote:
cchrome wrote:
Whats wrong with being a good (ill upgrade to Great) 6th man? What are you saying about Manu's game? And Mags isnt injury prone? seems odd that in a discussion of being injury prone you'd only quote the last 2 years. What does Maggette bring as well as his Elite scoring, last time I checked JO Scorer Rebounder Positional/weakside Defender and Locker Room Presence, plus a 6 time all-star not sure how you can argue with that


you're comparing apples and mango's

one cost a **** more...most of us would love mango's for the same price.


maggette brings 20+ pts a game, which is massive for this team...he brings a player that will actually drive to the hoop and slash..which again, is massive for this team and a huge hole. he brings toughness/rebounding for a wing, 6 a game...which again is massive for this team.

he doesnt bring much defence granted. but our present wings have trouble with that as well. and my point is, with the asset of rasho's contract...we'd still be able to make a big deal at the deadline with bargs contract included, AP's etc like the lakers got gasol.

TJ/Jose
Maggette
Moon
Bosh
Gasol? (obv not gasol but we'd be able to get a very nice big for rasho + bargs + ap etc)

vs.

Jose
AP
Moon
Bosh
JO

i'll take the first lineup.


You really, really must come with more to the table than saying we can trade for Gasol at the deadline. Who can we get? Which big fits the bill? Gasol was on the market for a long time and he went no where, until the tipping point had occurred.

Who else is in that situation? That's an honest question, because I don't know, and if you could provide a few we could discuss those possibilities.
With defence and rebounding still being the major issues on this team after acquiring Maggette, does that allow for any lessening of the load on and help protect our number one asset in Bosh? Does it still not force Bargnani into a position where he is "competing" for minutes with Rasho?

Additionally, we would be playing with a player who has had chemistry issues on previous teams who just got signed to a fat contract for 5 years, as opposed to a player who is looking to rehabilitate his value so he can paid one more time.

I'd rather have a player playing for a contract than playing after a contract.


maybe we pry brad miller away from sacremento. they wont be making the playoffs. they should be rebuilding.

rasho + filler for brad miller

TJ or Jose
Maggette
Moon
Bosh
Miller

maybe even camby. who knows maybe melo goes down with an injury and their season goes down the pipe. they could want to rebuild with cap relief and bargnani to build around. the point is we have many more options.

i don't totally hate what we have right now and what BC did. i'm excited as anyway to see JO and Bosh together. but i really think without anymore moves..which i see hard to make...we're not going to be much improved ie. MAYBE make it out the 1st round, but not 2nd round for the next 2 years. again assuming we don't trade bargs/get a nice wing.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#174 » by Legal Non-Conforming » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:19 pm

Pchu wrote:Ah, I see more people questioning Colangelo here...

We know he is not perfect, let's face it he is the one who traded Kidd for Marbury. I will say this about him, he takes risks. He is not afraid to change, when things doesn't work.



Every time someone mentions the Kidd for Marbury trade I cringe--no one ever mentions the context of that trade, that Kidd was accused of domestic violence and needed a "change of scenery", as they say. Colangelo deals in real life, not rotisserie basketball. Toronto fans, of all people, should understand that sometimes players get traded because of extenuating circumstances. Marbury had two very good years in PHO and then BC shipped his ass out of town. As disasters go, it wasn't all that disastrous.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#175 » by Shaazzam » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:37 pm

SHootaR wrote:
Shaazzam wrote:No, that was D'Antoni's system. Notice how he is now at another team? Let's see what their style of play is this year. Actually I really want to see how he responds now that he doesn't have the PG that can headman the ball like Nash can. It will be interesting to see how or if he he adapts, because that is the mark of a professional. Core beliefs are fine, but there must always be some flexibility.

And the "run'n'gun" lasted all of ten games here. We didn't ever have the personnel for it.

(which would have NEVER been done in BC era where he wanted shots shots shots up and down up and down etc)


You are trying to play both sides of the fence here. First you say that he has abandoned his philosophy of the run'n'gun here and then you say that if he would have never left PHO than there style would have never changed. Which is it?

Is he a beaten, defeated man who has the world crumbling around him and is now grasping at straws?

The whole idea that BC is not willing to change, and that he is so inflexible that he would follow things blindly until the end has absolutely zero proof. Ever since he has been here he has preached the importance of maintaining that flexibility so that future changes can be made. In order to be open to change, you have to always be willing to gather and analyze new information in order to make the best decision at the time. BC has never been one to be definitive in "this is the way it's going to be" except on the idea that he wants players that want to play here and that we can always get better.


i'm not trying to play both sides...you misquoted what i said obviously. i said BC would never have (past tense) gotten shaq during his era with phoenix..never suggested he wouldnt have written his wrong NOW. but back then, it would have dismantled their run n gun theory (if u want to bring dantoni into it without faulting BC at all, i will use 'they' instead of 'he' b/c its absurd to expect a GM to have no power).


You made the statement that he wouldn't have acquired Shaq and changed "his" style because all he wanted was shots shots and more shots. So you are correct that he wouldn't have acquired Shaq then, when BC was at the helm in PHO because he wasn't available two years ago. Were they not just coming off of a championship in MIA? Wasn't PHO still legit contenders back then?

Or you saying he wouldn't have made that move last year because he wouldn't have been willing to correct his mistakes last season if he was still in PHO because all he wanted was shots and more shots?

and everyone speaks of this 10 day turnaround where BC threw his plans out the window, well guess what...we'd already drafted bargnani with his dreams of the run n gun, centre firing from 3 pt land like its no ones business etc. that was his biggest mistake and was an unforgivable one. we have bosh at the 4. bargs is neither a SF or a C...if you believe so fine, i wont argue with it cuz its nonsense imo. he's a PF. BC set our franchise back so much with that waste.


By acquiring O'Neal what position is AB now going to be able to play coming off the bench?
If CB4 gets hurt, which position will AB play?
And to be fair I must ask, if O'NEal gets hurt which position will AB play?
That looks to be 2-1, PF wins.

And yes, let us acquire Brad Miller. Another injury prone centre with minimal defence.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#176 » by cchrome » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:38 pm

Prop wrote:
SHootaR wrote:
cchrome wrote:
Whats wrong with being a good (ill upgrade to Great) 6th man? What are you saying about Manu's game? And Mags isnt injury prone? seems odd that in a discussion of being injury prone you'd only quote the last 2 years. What does Maggette bring as well as his Elite scoring, last time I checked JO Scorer Rebounder Positional/weakside Defender and Locker Room Presence, plus a 6 time all-star not sure how you can argue with that


you're comparing apples and mango's

one cost a **** more...most of us would love mango's for the same price.


1) maggette brings 20+ pts a game, which is massive for this team...2) he brings a player that will actually drive to the hoop and slash..which again, is massive for this team and a huge hole. he brings 3) toughness/rebounding for a wing, 6 a game...which again is massive for this team.

4) he doesnt bring much defence granted. but our present wings have trouble with that as well. and my point is, with the asset of rasho's contract...we'd still be able to make a big deal at the deadline with bargs contract included, AP's etc like the lakers got gasol.

TJ/Jose
Maggette
Moon
Bosh
Gasol? (obv not gasol but we'd be able to get a very nice big for rasho + bargs + ap etc)

vs.

Jose
AP
Moon
Bosh
JO

i'll take the first lineup.


first off, everyone and their nanny knew that we weren't keeping both PGs. 2ndly, either way, you are still looking to land a good big man, except you assume we'd just be able to do it mid-season and land someone at the level of 5) gasol/o'neal.


1) So does JO, 20 a night
2) This is correct, we do need a better slasher, for 5 year 50mil he better slash and not get injured, long azz contract at 33 34 will he still be worth that? not sure, history tells us other wise
3) Moon gives us slightly more boards plus solid defense, add JO's 9 thats 15 boards (I think that helps us more, plus 2.2 blocks, I think that helps us more, this center of yours better be able to D Dwight cause id put my money that JO can contain him, not 20 & 20 for sure, and if your C can I want to know whos giving him up for that offer.
4) Moon once again plays good defence and is a wing, who are you trying to get at C, U still havent made that clear, give me a name that we can get for those contracts. U are basing your point on Us getting some ficional C, who is this mystery man. So Mags at 10mil a year tell me this very good C that makes under 11 mil for what another 4-5 years, that we get for TJ, Rasho, AB and AP (Cause maggette at 10 mil u only have 11 to work with before youve spent more than BC)
5) Do you know how much those guy cost? youd rather have Gasol (Soft) than JO?
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#177 » by Shaazzam » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:53 pm

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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#178 » by SHootaR » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:55 pm

Shaazzam wrote:You made the statement that he wouldn't have acquired Shaq and changed "his" style because all he wanted was shots shots and more shots. So you are correct that he wouldn't have acquired Shaq then, when BC was at the helm in PHO because he wasn't available two years ago. Were they not just coming off of a championship in MIA? Wasn't PHO still legit contenders back then?

Or you saying he wouldn't have made that move last year because he wouldn't have been willing to correct his mistakes last season if he was still in PHO because all he wanted was shots and more shots?

and everyone speaks of this 10 day turnaround where BC threw his plans out the window, well guess what...we'd already drafted bargnani with his dreams of the run n gun, centre firing from 3 pt land like its no ones business etc. that was his biggest mistake and was an unforgivable one. we have bosh at the 4. bargs is neither a SF or a C...if you believe so fine, i wont argue with it cuz its nonsense imo. he's a PF. BC set our franchise back so much with that waste.


By acquiring O'Neal what position is AB now going to be able to play coming off the bench?
If CB4 gets hurt, which position will AB play?
And to be fair I must ask, if O'NEal gets hurt which position will AB play?
That looks to be 2-1, PF wins.

And yes, let us acquire Brad Miller. Another injury prone centre with minimal defence.


i don't care whether or not BC would have done whatever last year...he already wasted some years in phoenix. that was my point if you read everything properly. TWICE now his foolish mistakes have had to be corrected thinking run n gun would work. phoenix is abandoning it, and we did too. that was my point. now we have bargs instead of gay or someone useful and its set us back.

and lol at your hypothetical situations if Bosh or JO get hurt and bargs plays the PF. well i have news for you if Bosh gets hurt its irrelvant b/c this team is going nowhere. unless we're getting rid of bosh, my point still holds true that bargs is a waste. if you call a number 1 overall pick a useful bench player, we must disagree again.

and lol again now at the Brad Miller comment. so you're willing to forgive JO's even more massive injury prone history, for double the cost and no swingman like maggette, but in my situation is 'o brad miller? the injury prone centre?' cmon now. lets try to be fair here. this way a brad miller or camby at the deadline wouldnt be so bad cuz we have a 20 ppg scorer in maggette or whatever other swing we traded jose or tj for. just puts less eggs in one basket.

you didnt comment on camby...i'm assuming u couldnt find fault in that one!
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#179 » by Shaazzam » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:59 pm

Shaazzam wrote:Sacramento's Brad Miller Suspended

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... suspended/


Sorry SHootaR. The timing is just too perfect.
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Re: Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship 

Post#180 » by SHootaR » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:06 pm

Shaazzam wrote:
Shaazzam wrote:Sacramento's Brad Miller Suspended

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... suspended/


Sorry SHootaR. The timing is just too perfect.


we all make mistakes

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UF8vjZYnPOw

:wink:

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