Nathan Jawai vs. The Wannabe Nuggets

cdel00 · Post #21 » by **cdel00** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:07 pm

so from the sounds of it he had the fundamentals and court vision of an experienced player and he has the physical tools to compete with the big boys down low. Nice!

All those comments about leaning on people made me think of "kickstand" for a nick name

chsh22 · Post #22 » by **chsh22** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:15 pm

Thanks for the writeup. Gives me the feeling Hump might have some competition.

miruss2001 · Post #23 » by **miruss2001** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:22 pm

I'll echo what everyone has said science, great write-up... you're hired!

UnRealGM · Post #24 » by **UnRealGM** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:49 pm

thanks for the summary!

The Main Event · Post #25 » by **The Main Event** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:39 pm

[quote removed]

Obviously he is gonna view Jaws in a positive light but it seems that his analysis is fairly objective.

Thanks for taking the time to write that up, definitely worth the read.

Post #26 » by **Shaazzam** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:02 pm

Please do not respond to my post.

The following is a quote from a poster in this thread. I have deleted it as it is disrupting the thread. For that the poster is receiving a warning. I am only leaving the quote up for, for lack of a better word and I do not mean this as pompously as it sounds, educational purposes.

SomeDay wrote:Good job presenting an unbiased view of our 48th pick in the draft.

We truly can see both his amazing upside, demonstrated by the two points he ferociously posted in this summer league game against a plethora of D-league uber-talent, as well as his downside, which is apparently nothing, according to you.

The average poster on this board now truly understands both the amazing potential and potential drawbacks of this flawless talent which we somehow landed with the 48th pick in the draft.

We no longer need to worry about the future of our beloved Raps, for they have found Nathan Jawai, the answer to all the teams woes. Mr. Stern, give us the Larry O'Brien trophy now! Surely you don't want us to unleash the awesome fury of Jawai upon the other poor unsuspecting teams in your beloved NBA.

This post provides an excellent example IMO as to what can drag down the board by fostering animosity, confrontation and disruption. This poster has offered nothing in the way of rebuttal, they have just used their words to mock another poster who, with a large amount of personal effort, brought the rest of the community a fairly comprehensive writeup of one of our prospects. Now if there had been some effort to refute some of the words of the OP, then there would be a basis for discussion. However, all this person has done is piggyback another's work in an effort to garner attention. It's equivalent to the hyperactive kid dropping the globe into the fish tank during another's student's presentation in order to say "Look at me!!! I can get attention."

I take a fairly dim view of this type of behavior. That is not to say that sarcasm doesn't have it's place. But for my money, sometime there is often a lack of thought and effort that many put into opening threads i.e. not reading the articles they are posting, or absurd spelling errors in their thread titles.

Here we have a poster that really spent some time to try and provide something of value to us. Now you don't have to agree with their opinions, but at least challenge them in a meaningful way. Don't just be an ass. Oh and get your facts right, so you don't look completely ridiculous.

We need more quality OP's around here, and I don't want to see someone who put the effort into making one, and they didn't even do it in an ego serving way, get crapped on by someone who provides no value. This is the Toronto Raptor board. If you don't like people viewing our players in a positive light, and if you bring no effort into disproving their opinions, you can post elsewhere. I have deleted this users post as well as the responses to it except for mine, because I do not want them to garner any more attention and detract from the discussion. I am sorry that people are unable to PM me to discuss this. If you have any concerns, please use the Feedback board. And do not open threads to discuss it. That is disruptive to the board and will be dealt with accordingly.

djsunyc · Post #27 » by **djsunyc** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:08 pm

in all honesty...this guy shows all signs of being a total stiff. tough to be a bust in the 2nd round, but he will probably be out of the league soon enough.

The Main Event · Post #28 » by **The Main Event** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:14 pm

djsunyc wrote:in all honesty...this guy shows all signs of being a total stiff. tough to be a bust in the 2nd round, but he will probably be out of the league soon enough.

True, but if he is doing the things that the OP has mentioned (instantly posting his man up, hedging offensive players on pick and rolls) than he can easily have a place on the Raps bench. I think that he is gonna b a nice addition for us.

Komodo · Post #29 » by **Komodo** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:15 pm

I'm certainly tempering my expectations, in fact any contribution would be a bonus, considering where he was drafted. But what have you seen from Jawai that makes you say what you did, djsunyc?

djsunyc · Post #30 » by **djsunyc** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:15 pm

The Main Event wrote:
djsunyc wrote:in all honesty...this guy shows all signs of being a total stiff. tough to be a bust in the 2nd round, but he will probably be out of the league soon enough.

True, but if he is doing the things that the OP has mentioned (instantly posting his man up, hedging offensive players on pick and rolls) than he can easily have a place on the Raps bench. I think that he is gonna b a nice addition for us.

he's not helping the team this season. he's way too far away from the speed of the nba at this point. he's a major major project.

djsunyc · Post #31 » by **djsunyc** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:16 pm

komodo19 wrote:I'm certainly tempering my expectations, in fact any contribution would be a bonus, considering where he was drafted. But what have you seen from Jawai that makes you say what you did, djsunyc?

his reaction times are way too slow. he won't be able to stay on the court with the speed of the nba game right now. he needs to find his niche but it ain't gonna be this year.

Post #32 » by **YogiStewart** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:17 pm

djsunyc wrote:in all honesty...this guy shows all signs of being a total stiff. tough to be a bust in the 2nd round, but he will probably be out of the league soon enough.

i've said it before and i will say it again.
he's a second round pick. most of them are stiffs. few of them even make it to Riding the Pine status.
but he has potential. and he's the only big, solid body the Raptors have against teams with other large centres.
and he is dirt cheap (as opposed to getting someone for the veteran's minimum).

so its a win-win.

have realistic expectations.

djsunyc · Post #33 » by **djsunyc** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:20 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
djsunyc wrote:in all honesty...this guy shows all signs of being a total stiff. tough to be a bust in the 2nd round, but he will probably be out of the league soon enough.

i've said it before and i will say it again.
he's a second round pick. most of them are stiffs. few of them even make it to Riding the Pine status.
but he has potential. and he's the only big, solid body the Raptors have against teams with other large centres.
and he is dirt cheap (as opposed to getting someone for the veteran's minimum).

so its a win-win.

have realistic expectations.

i understand that...and i agree with you. but in all honesty, knowing the raps already had bosh, o'neal, hump + bargs under contract, they should've taken a guard with the pick.

Post #34 » by **Shaazzam** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:22 pm

Possibly, but I don't mind hedging our bets a little on a guy who could possibly soak up some minutes considering CB4's and JON's injury histories and AB's and Hump's inconsistencies.

mitch3844 · Post #35 » by **mitch3844** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:24 pm

thought it was worth a mention that Jawai didn't play over the weekend bc of a groin strain so perhaps that is a reason for looking somewhat slow... I think he'll be fine for what we need him for... also another thing the box score for yest game doesn't have him as playing... did he even play?

The_Hater · Post #36 » by **The_Hater** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:26 pm

djsunyc wrote:
i understand that...and i agree with you. but in all honesty, knowing the raps already had bosh, o'neal, hump + bargs under contract, they should've taken a guard with the pick.

You don't target a specific position in the 2nd round with all those stiffs floating around, you're just looking to get somebody, anybody that can play at the NBA level. If you can do that in the 2nd round, you have succeeded. And obviously the Raps think that he can play.

As it is, if you actually think that we have too many big men under contract you're sadly mistaken. Yes we've got 4 bigs signed that will likely be in the rotation ahead of him and one of them has been very injury prone the past 2 seasons. That's considered a very thin front court in terms of depth and we don't have the financial resources to go sign another vet to add to that group.

cdel00 · Post #37 » by **cdel00** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:26 pm

djsunyc wrote:in all honesty...this guy shows all signs of being a total stiff. tough to be a bust in the 2nd round, but he will probably be out of the league soon enough.

Ok I'll bite what are the "stiff' signs that you speak of?

My checklist for rooks is as follows

1) Fundamentals - Does the player use his feet to position his body so that it is always in the most advantageous position?

2) Coachability - Does the player position himself on the court where he is supposed to within the team concept and is the player willing to do what is needed to improve?

3) Adaptability - Does the player recognize and react to "broken plays", mismatches, and the other 9 players on the court quickly and intelligently?

4) Natural Physical gifts - Does the player have the physical tools to not be dominated by his peers?

5) Mental toughness - Does the player have the inner confidence needed to recover from bad mistakes / getting chewed out / being taunted?

Those 5 aspects are the most important traits a rookie needs as they are the foundational traits of any professional player and when a rookie is strong in all 5 then that rookie has a strong foundation to build his career on.

Furthermore, when a player has those traits coupled with such limited experience as a late study it bodes even better for that player because there are fewer bad habits that need correction.

Overall, I think you selling our Rookie very short as from what I have seen and what the OP has pointed out in his excellent synopsis is that Jawai possess the above 5 traits hence it is realistic to believe in his future contribution to our beloved team.

djsunyc · Post #38 » by **djsunyc** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:30 pm

guys, i'm not ragging on jawai. i'm just going on what i see. and i'm not impressed in the slightest. how many big men in the 2nd round, that aren't really good athletically even stick in the nba? this is a major project - and that's what 2nd round picks are, major projects. that's fine they drafted him. i'm just saying that i don't see anything special about this guy and wished they took a backcourt player b/c he will get more of an opportunity since we don't have alot of depth there to begin with. baston is 10XXX more skilled than jawai and he wan't getting any type of burn.

Post #39 » by **Shaazzam** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:32 pm

djsunyc wrote:guys, i'm not ragging on jawai. i'm just going on what i see. and i'm not impressed in the slightest. how many big men in the 2nd round, that aren't really good athletically even stick in the nba? this is a major project - and that's what 2nd round picks are, major projects. that's fine they drafted him. i'm just saying that i don't see anything special about this guy and wished they took a backcourt player b/c he will get more of an opportunity since we don't have alot of depth there to begin with.

I see your point here. Quick question, who was still available that you would have preferred?

mitch3844 · Post #40 » by **mitch3844** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:36 pm

here's the bottom line... whether we took Jawai or some other 2nd round gaurd the point was that in the 2nd round you're pretty much getting a project and if they work out it's a bonus... that's why teams will trade a 2nd rounder for anything... rarely do these guys turn out like Redd, Boozer, Arenas etc... we needed big guys who can come in and play with some toughness... Jawai can do that if nothing else... he's hardly going to play this year... he's a non factor in how the Raps do this year... here are the guys that will determine what type of season we have... the rest are just roster fillers...
JO, Bosh, Jose, Parker, JK, Moon, Bargs, Roko