Nathan Jawai vs. The Wannabe Nuggets

[cdel00]

guys, i'm not ragging on jawai. i'm just going on what i see. and i'm not impressed in the slightest. how many big men in the 2nd round, that aren't really good athletically even stick in the nba? this is a major project - and that's what 2nd round picks are, major projects. that's fine they drafted him. i'm just saying that i don't see anything special about this guy and wished they took a backcourt player b/c he will get more of an opportunity since we don't have alot of depth there to begin with.

I see your point here. Quick question, who was still available that you would have preferred?

Shaaz you could add to that question. How much better is that player than Hassan Adams or the long list of undrafted guards still available?

[Komodo]

Bill Walker comes to mind, but his longetivity is in serious doubt. Still, I think I would have went with Walker. Jawai's size is intriguing, especially with our roster, and if he can provide a Glen Davis-type of impact than I will be more than satisfied.

[djsunyc]

guys, i'm not ragging on jawai. i'm just going on what i see. and i'm not impressed in the slightest. how many big men in the 2nd round, that aren't really good athletically even stick in the nba? this is a major project - and that's what 2nd round picks are, major projects. that's fine they drafted him. i'm just saying that i don't see anything special about this guy and wished they took a backcourt player b/c he will get more of an opportunity since we don't have alot of depth there to begin with.

I see your point here. Quick question, who was still available that you would have preferred?

considering CDR was taken 1 spot ahead of us, i see no reason why we couldn't have moved up 2 spots to take him before the nets did. bill walker is another project/risk, but the guy can definitely still play. then you have guys like hairston and shan foster. no guarantees here but i'd much rather take on of those guys than a big who probably will be on the inactive list all year. jawai probably wouldn't have even been drafted and the raps could've just invited him to summer league imho.

[Shaazzam]

guys, i'm not ragging on jawai. i'm just going on what i see. and i'm not impressed in the slightest. how many big men in the 2nd round, that aren't really good athletically even stick in the nba? this is a major project - and that's what 2nd round picks are, major projects. that's fine they drafted him. i'm just saying that i don't see anything special about this guy and wished they took a backcourt player b/c he will get more of an opportunity since we don't have alot of depth there to begin with.

I see your point here. Quick question, who was still available that you would have preferred?

Shaaz you could add to that question. How much better is that player than Hassan Adams or the long list of undrafted guards still available?

That's a good point. You avoid the old adage that you pay more for size if you are signing a big guy to a minimum contract as a second rounder as opposed to going after a big who has already had an NBA contract.

[Yuri Vaultin]

guys, i'm not ragging on jawai. i'm just going on what i see. and i'm not impressed in the slightest. how many big men in the 2nd round, that aren't really good athletically even stick in the nba?

Zach Randolph comes to mind.

[MEDIC]

Looks like he plays like a C, which is what we need..........& when in shape/ not injured, is very mobile for his size. Looks like he has some back to the basket skills & even a bit of a mid range jumper. For a guy that hasn't been playing the game that long, he has some natural skills that can be worked on/ developed.

Most of you have probably already seen the attached YouTube mix:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpJszNGHjNA

When I heard that they signed him to a 2 year contract, my first thought was that they would give him the opportunity to develop under JO (who coincidentally has 2 years left). If there was no substantial improvement during that time, they would choose to not re-sign him. If he develops considerably, they have a young, (now seasoned) useful player on their hands.

A low risk move really. For now we have a big, strong practise player for JO & Bosh to lean against. If he develops into something, we come out big winners.....

Just my opinion........from what I have seen, I think he can develop into a useful player.....it will just depend on his mental makeup & how he responds to Sam in the first year.

If he does make it to the court this year (against legit players), he will probably get owned........ Probably have his shot blocked a number of times because there was not much of a challenge in the NBL for him & it looks like he could get his shot off easily. Gonna be a steep learning curve.

[YogiStewart]

with a Big, you never know. they have upsides.
you know, we've heard a zillion times that they develop slower yadda yadda.
and the Raps did scout Jawai quite a bit, so they apparently knew what they were getting when they picked up - i.e. potential.
with a guy like CDR, you have to realize that he may have reached his max potential and that is why he was drafted in mid-2nd round.
Jawai played in Australia, so he probably wasn't scouted and scrutinized as extensively as CDR. so he was a greater mystery to those who didn't scout him. he also didn't work out for tonnes of teams.

we can bicker all we want about a 2nd round pick, but remember: he's a 2nd round pick. any minutes he gets is a bonus a la Slokar and Sow 2 years ago. if he becomes a rotational player, you should do backflips. if he becomes a significant player/6th man, you should buy Colangelo a nice xmas gift.

[Victorious1]

Should he be sent to the Big Man Camp in Vegas that Bargs will be attending this summer? Do you think it would help him at this early stage of his NBA career, seeing that he is so raw and has major conditioning issues?
............................................................................................

Caribbean Family-Fest .. coming soon ... Aug 3rd, 2008

[cdel00]

Should he be sent to the Big Man Camp in Vegas that Bargs will be attending this summer? Do you think it would help him at this early stage of his NBA career, seeing that he is so raw and has major conditioning issues?

Heh I know a man who can improve Jawai's conditioning - his name is "crazy" Frank Matrisciano also know as Hell's trainer . The article is a great read.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 1147J0.DTL

Panting uncontrollably, a group of basketball players lean over, their hands on their knees.

Countless trips up a 55-degree, 116-step wooden spiral staircase in San Francisco cause more than just a few pearls of sweat.

Gripping the collar of his hoodie, Stanford guard Anthony Goods tilts his head back, gasping for air.

"Man," Goods says, "this is crazy."

Goods is one of the dozens of top-flight basketball players who come to San Francisco to train with a guru the outside world knows little about. His clients have included the Wizards' Gilbert Arenas, the Celtics' Leon Powe and the Pacers' Kareem Rush.

He calls his workouts chameleon training, adapting to one's surroundings and overcoming any obstacle. Athletes call it the most mind-boggling, body-aching workout, period.

Matrisciano's playground is San Francisco - its stairs, beaches, sand hills and parks. Athletes labor up stairs with medicine balls, plod on the beach wearing 50-pound weight vests and slog up sand hills in harnesses being tugged from behind.

He's a man behind the scenes when a player is drafted in the NBA, gets a contract overseas or resurrects his career.

"I take them to a level they've never been," Matrisciano says.

"I couldn't relax my body enough to go to the bathroom," Schlatter says. "There were days I couldn't even walk like a normal human being."

"After the second day I couldn't get up from bed, like I was paralyzed," says Marcus Slaughter, a forward for a pro team in Turkey.
Hell's playground

A sign on the gate reads "No pets allowed in play area."

Pink slides, orange crawling tubes and iron bars greet the players.

Seems like a harmless play structure. Instead it's Matrisciano's playground for pain.

Everyone gets in line.

"Give me two pull-ups," says Matrisciano as he points to three metal horizontal bars that are about 18 feet long and an inch thick. "Now give me three."

Varying grips is key: inside, outside, wide, closed. Between pull-ups, he mixes in modified pushups. The intensity and frequency increases, shocking their muscles and keeping them off balance.

Many like Goods have opted out of training in a gym, something Matrisciano calls "illusion training."

"In order to get better, you have got to find something even harder than what you're doing," Goods says.

The killer on the upper body is a workout Matrisciano calls "save the kids."

Holding himself up in a pull-up position, Low moves from one side to the other without letting his arms extend straight. Low begins to slip and slow down. That's when Matrisciano jumps in, giving him a slight hand while saying "You got this. Come on AOA."

[Shaazzam]

guys, i'm not ragging on jawai. i'm just going on what i see. and i'm not impressed in the slightest. how many big men in the 2nd round, that aren't really good athletically even stick in the nba? this is a major project - and that's what 2nd round picks are, major projects. that's fine they drafted him. i'm just saying that i don't see anything special about this guy and wished they took a backcourt player b/c he will get more of an opportunity since we don't have alot of depth there to begin with.

I see your point here. Quick question, who was still available that you would have preferred?

considering CDR was taken 1 spot ahead of us, i see no reason why we couldn't have moved up 2 spots to take him before the nets did. bill walker is another project/risk, but the guy can definitely still play. then you have guys like hairston and shan foster. no guarantees here but i'd much rather take on of those guys than a big who probably will be on the inactive list all year. jawai probably wouldn't have even been drafted and the raps could've just invited him to summer league imho.

What would you have offered in order for a team to, at a minimum, swap picks? Another team isn't just going to give you a better pick. And thus far MLSE hs liked to keep a firm reign on extra spending. Why would we sacrifice any asset in order to move up in the second round?

You say you see no reason why we wouldn't, but what options do you see available that would allow us to do so?

[from24ft]

When the summer concludes there will be pleanty of big men that are more capable than Jawai that will not have a contract with the league. Pape Sow for instance may be one of them.


A guy like Jawai needs to play in order to learn the game, sitting at the end of our bench is not going to do that for him. In practice he only adds to the possibility of injurying one of our players.. I really would like to see him play a season in the NBDL. This could have been acomplished without us putting him on our roster.

I realize that he has only played one game, but from what I saw he is still very raw and will need majore investment time wise.

[cdel00]

When the summer concludes there will be pleanty of big men that are more capable than Jawai that will not have a contract with the league. Pape Sow for instance may be one of them.


A guy like Jawai needs to play in order to learn the game, sitting at the end of our bench is not going to do that for him. In practice he only adds to the possibility of injurying one of our players.. I really would like to see him play a season in the NBDL. This could have been acomplished without us putting him on our roster.

I realize that he has only played one game, but from what I saw he is still very raw and will need majore investment time wise.

Sorry to rehash this but the Raptors NEED to fill 13 roster spots. Adding Jawai to the roster is the cheapest way to add a player.

[Shaazzam]

Sow has had his shot here and he couldn't make an impact. Why revisit that? Even as a throwaway example, it is endemic on this board to always look to the past to solve issues as opposed to moving forward and exploring new opportunities. They may not always work out, but by expanding your opportunities, you expand your chances of success.

Why would we look at scraps when we had the opportunity to select a guy that the team obviously liked?

That goes against what BC has been all about. Identify your targets and get them. Being proactive as opposed to being reactive.

And as mentioned directly above, and has been mentioned before it is extremely cost effective.

[djsunyc]

What would you have offered in order for a team to, at a minimum, swap picks? Another team isn't just going to give you a better pick. And thus far MLSE hs liked to keep a firm reign on extra spending. Why would we sacrifice any asset in order to move up in the second round?

You say you see no reason why we wouldn't, but what options do you see available that would allow us to do so?

watching that suns video on draft day where they were able to purchase a pick for $250g's, i'm pretty sure the raps could've moved up 2 slots.

[BD12]

When the summer concludes there will be pleanty of big men that are more capable than Jawai that will not have a contract with the league. Pape Sow for instance may be one of them.


A guy like Jawai needs to play in order to learn the game, sitting at the end of our bench is not going to do that for him. In practice he only adds to the possibility of injurying one of our players.. I really would like to see him play a season in the NBDL. This could have been acomplished without us putting him on our roster.

I realize that he has only played one game, but from what I saw he is still very raw and will need majore investment time wise.

And why does that matter? Do you think Pape Sow, given the Raptors' current roster, will garner any PT over the course of the season. My answer is no because all he provides is athleticism and nothing else. Bargnani and Humphries are vastly superior players than he is so I'm not sure why you are making such a big deal about this.

Jawai is what he is, a 2nd rounder who will be bench fodder for the entire season, but he does have potential because of his size, length, and work ethic. And second of all, he comes cheap and will probably be sent to the D-league early into the season so he can get used to fast-paced NBA game. I really don't know why you're complaining, he's the 11th-12th man and might be even be placed on the inactive roster. Pape Sow and any other big men out there (who else?) would've been given the same treatment.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Should he be sent to the Big Man Camp in Vegas that Bargs will be attending this summer? Do you think it would help him at this early stage of his NBA career, seeing that he is so raw and has major conditioning issues?

Steve Buffery said he's going to, if that's worth anything:

After the Summer League, he (Jawai) will remain in Vegas and attend the Tim Grgurich Big Man's camp, along with Bargnani.

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Basket ... 1-sun.html

[from24ft]

You guys need to relax a little bit, I am not saying lets sign Pape, I am simply using him as an example of the sort of big men that will be available at the conclusion of the summer. The reason I used his name is because we are all familiar with his ability and impact.

Do I think he will be a key piece, of course not, but I do feel a player of his caliber can contribute much sooner than Jawai.


Look our organization does not have the best big men development program, we have been complaining about a big man coach for a while. Yet all of a suden this is the best place for a raw prospect like Jawai who will see almost no action.


I actually think that Jawai's best option for his career is a step above the Australian league and in to the NBDL, this allows him to get in game experience... not rot on a bench.

[Shaazzam]

You guys need to relax a little bit, I am not saying lets sign Pape, I am simply using him as an example of the sort of big men that will be available at the conclusion of the summer. The reason I used his name is because we are all familiar with his ability and impact.

Do I think he will be a key piece, of course not, but I do feel a player of his caliber can contribute much sooner than Jawai.


Look our organization does not have the best big men development program, we have been complaining about a big man coach for a while. Yet all of a suden this is the best place for a raw prospect like Jawai who will see almost no action.


I actually think that Jawai's best option for his career is a step above the Australian league and in to the NBDL, this allows him to get in game experience... not rot on a bench.

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/stor ... sptcoach14

It was his work in Europe that caught the eye of Raptors management, who wanted to add a basketball development specialist to work with their younger players. Development will be Herbert's focus on the five-man staff of Raptors head coach Sam Mitchell.

That past issue has been identified and steps have been taken to try and rectify it.

As for Pape. He had zero impact, so I'm not sure how saying that there will be multiple players of his ilk benefits us or makes us competitive. I acknowledged that he was a throwaway name, and thus far he's been a throwaway player.

Now Jawai may benefit from game action in a lesser league, and that I'm sure will be looked at moving forward. But he could allso benefit from the infrastructure being put in place and by playing with a six and four(?) time all-star in practice. It's not like he will be training with the likes of Loren Woods or other jabronis.

[YogiStewart]

Sow has had his shot here and he couldn't make an impact. Why revisit that?

because we are the TORONTO Raptors, not the New York Raptors or Florida Raptors