Wings tracking thread

[supersub15]

It seems that everybody is concerned with the play of your wings this season. We've had all kinds of names thrown around as trade target to solidify those 2 positions.

In this thread, I will track the defense and offense TS% of our wings as a way of understanding their impact on both ends of the floor, to see if we actually need those positions replaced.

The TS% defense takes into account all players that have manned the 2 positions (SG and SF) during any particular game. For example, in the Philadelphia game, our wings had to defend Andre Iguodala, Thadeus Young, Willie Green and Kareem Rush. I did not try to isolate who defended who, because sometimes the lines become blurred, which makes the tracking very difficult and time-consuming.

Here is the wing production of the opponent and the Raptors (Parker, Moon, Kapono, Graham, Adams):

Code: Select all

Game      OppTS%  OppFGA  OppFTA  TmTS%  TmFGA  TmFTA  W/L
Sixers    0.461     29      13    0.535   30      4     W
Warriors  0.530     47      11    0.821   21      9     W
Bucks     0.359     37      11    0.636   24      8     W
Pistons   0.628     34      15    0.394   19      3     L
Hawks     0.646     44       9    0.406   29      4     L
Bobcats   0.380     39      13    0.450   22      3     W
Celtics   0.589     37      22    0.612   33      3     L
Total     0.517    267      94    0.555  178     34

[MrBojangelz71]

If Parker can keep this man D going thru out the season, Jamario picks up his rebounding while still getting his steals and blocks, JK keeps up his play and Joey.......never mind. We really aren't to bad on the wings and I've said that since the beginning of pre season.
With JO and CB hogging up the middle, having a slashing wing isn't as potent as having a solid shooting wing. When they kick it out, having a the wing slash into a crowded middle isn't nearly as effective as having them nail the outside J. As long as AP keeps guarding, JK keeps working on keeping his guy in front of him and Moon gets his rebounding back up we'll be fine. Maybe half way thru the season, if this current squad puts a strong record together and show BC that we have potential to make a move in the off season, then he might want to go into the tax and get us that wing we all cry for.

[Fairview4Life]

Once Moon starts rebounding again, everything will be ok.

[underdog33]

It seems that everybody is concerned with the play of your wings this season. We've had all kinds of names thrown around as trade target to solidify those 2 positions.

In this thread, I will track the defense and offense TS% of our wings as a way of understanding their impact on both ends of the floor, to see if we actually need those positions replaced.

The TS% defense takes into account all players that have manned the 2 positions (SG and SF) during any particular game. For example, in the Philadelphia game, our wings had to defend Andre Iguodala, Thadeus Young, Willie Green and Kareem Rush. I did not try to isolate who defended who, because sometimes the lines become blurred, which makes the tracking very difficult and time-consuming.

Here is the wing production of the opponent in the first 3 games:
Philadelphia - Combined TS%: 0.461
Golden State - Combined TS%: 0.530
Milwaukee - Combined TS%: 0.359
Total Opponent TS%: 0.456

Here is the wing production of the Toronto Raptors (Parker, Moon, Kapono, Graham):
Philadelphia - Combined TS%: 0.535
Golden State - Combined TS%: 0.821
Milwaukee - Combined TS%: 0.636
Total Opponent TS%: 0.653

Just a nitpick: the bolded term should be deleted


It definitely appears that our wings are on a roll, and this is despite moon,graham and kapono having "poor" nights. Defensively we're doing OK, especially when you think of the opposition, Thaddeus Young, Andre Igoudala, Stephen Jackson, Corey Maggette, Richard Jefferson, Michael Redd.

I don't expect our TS% to remain at such a high percentage, but hopefully we can put the clamps down on defense...

[08HEMI]

Defensively AP has gained the most out of the JO trade, he no longer has to double down low everytime down the court and it has free'd him up to guard his own man and freelance on defense where he see's fit. My buddies last year thought he lost a step but it was clear to me the reason you seen his man open alot was because he was sent into the post to double and in my mind there isn't a man alive that can recover 18-20ft. The ball moves faster than the player and the moment AP got to the post the post player all to often just quickly flicked it back outside for a quick three or open J.

[elitehunter99]

In a more realistic sense, instead of trading for an all-star wing we should be going after a serviceable backup small forward who can rebound, defend, much like a Matt Barnes, Travis Outlaw, Jared Dudley, Renaldo Balkman, even the guy Milwaukee drafted Mbah Moute, I knew he was going to have role in the NBA...... because Moon has been playing very well lately, so has Parker, but both the starters minutes have to be reduced. Kapono is inconsistent, JG is wildly inconsistent, so there has to be another defender/rebounder at the 3 spot to complement Bargnani and Kapono off the bench. Right now the starters are carrying a heavy load. BC will have to trade for another wing player sooner or later, and Humphries, Graham are sadly the only trade bait left on this team....

[jsmith]

parker is more than an adequate starting shooting guard in this league. the fact that he is on this team makes him an even better fit considering there are 3 stars in the pecking order above him. i've paid close attention to his play since he got here and the one thing he always does is to do what is required of him and nothing more, nothing less. if he needs to be a 20 point scorer one night, he will. if he needs to lockdown an opposing player, he will do an above average job of it and force a couple turnovers for us.

[Cassius]

I think that you'd probably find the same thing if you analyzed the stats of the wing players on the TD-D Rob Spurs. I think that wing-dominated teams now have to overcompensate defensively to stop our inside game, so our mediocre guys are getting open shots. That's pretty much what we were looking for when Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace and the others were pegged as the solution at the SF spot.

If we were to get an above average wing player, we'd be pretty much unbeatable because you would have a Detroit situation, where every positional category could pull its own weight.

Speaking of Detroit, we're probably going to see just how valuable a ball-handling swingman would be against a team that plays great team D. Right now, we're just banking on the limitless range of Jose and Jason...and probably Bargnani, to bail us out.

[Not Just a Ballboy]

Incredible as always, Supersub! Your basketball addiction serves us well. It will be interesting to see how the season plays out.

[supersub15]

Stats updated.

[wade2bosh]

I expect our wings to shoot better than the other teams wings in TS% but were going to have to learn to compensate when the shot isnt falling by...

-attacking the basket/getting to the line
-hitting JO for the easy layups/post-up
-pull up 2s

[O'DEAN_MAGNUM]

Supersub15 wrote:

In this thread, I will track the defense and offense TS% of our wings as a way of understanding their impact on both ends of the floor, to see if we actually need those positions replaced.

I think it's been way too long since we actually had talented wings (Vince pre.2002/Tmac) that I think people forget what it's like to have legit NBA talent there.

to defend mediocre talents like AP/Moon I think proves this point.

I don't need any stats to tell me that we need atleast one 20 ppg scoring wing to make any noise in the playoffs, and that won't come from either Moon or AP.

[theSkinny]

I havent read any of the thread besides the title...but I had a pound of wings today.. a half pound on wed.. anything before that I cant fully recall









Ok so now I read the thread...but really I thought everyone wanted my tracking of wings?
ah well

[ruckus]

I havent read any of the thread besides the title...but I had a pound of wings today.. a half pound on wed.. anything before that I cant fully recall









Ok so now I read the thread...but really I thought everyone wanted my tracking of wings?
ah well

How many wings are in a pound vs a half pound? I'm not a small guy by any means but, the most # of wings I can eat usually are 5 to 10. Usually closer to the 5 than the 10.

Edit: to keep things on topic ... I don't think we lost the Detroit game because our wings are sub-par. As long as our wings hold it down defensively (which they didn't in the Detroit game), we'll be fine. Detroit is just one of those teams that always has our number. It probably would have been better if AI played and disrupted their efficient offense.

[supersub15]

For those who are wondering what the *** TS% means: True Shooting Percentage (TS%) calculates what a player’s shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers.

[[SJJ]]

For those who are wondering what the *** TS% means: True Shooting Percentage (TS%) calculates what a player’s shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers.

I felt too stupid to ask, thanks

[supersub15]

I've updated the stats. As you can see, the opponents are going to the line almost 3 times more than the Raptors wings.

[Fairview4Life]

I've updated the stats. As you can see, the opponents are going to the line almost 3 times more than the Raptors wings.

It's so tough to judge basketball stats without context though. Despite his rhetoric about driving, Sam uses the Raps wings as kickout shooters, for the most part. It really shouldn't be surprising they aren't going to the line a lot. Bosh, JO, and Jose are the guys getting the most shots.

[CarterDUnk16]

Sam needs to change his strategy. I feel his plays are too mechanical. Not sure if its just me but the only plays i see is basically passing the ball in the paint to Bosh/oneil and kick it out to the open man. As much as i want praise Bosh for demanding the ball in the paint, i feel teams already know whats going to happen each play. This evidently make it easier to predict whos going to shoot the ball and defend(double teams).

As for our wings, its truly a disappointment. I didn't know how much delfino meant to this team until this season. I wished we had Kelenna Azubuike. I believe he could be a solid 18-20ppg sg/sf for us.

[RockTHECasbah]

JO doesn't even kick it out all the time

he could have had 10 assists instead of 5