Grange: Joe Johnson's impact comparable to Bosh's

[NDaATL]

JJ's numbers were down last season because he was hurt and had no legs under his jumper (was a calf injury), combined with the fact that Woodson ran him into the ground playing him over 40 minutes a game. Check JJ's numbers from 06-07 for a more accurate measure. Or, better yet, check his numbers for about the last 40 games last season after he got healthy and he was much better. Also, the addition of Bibby has TREMENDOUSLY helped him, he won player of the month in March and player of the week in the first week of April, as well as playing very well in the playoffs (before Boston started triple teaming him). Even though Bibby isn't as good as he was earlier in his career, he is unbelievably better than Lue or Anthony Johnson. I get sick to my stomach thinking about those two running our team for 3 years.

[supersub15]

JJ's numbers were down last season because he was hurt and had no legs under his jumper (was a calf injury), combined with the fact that Woodson ran him into the ground playing him over 40 minutes a game. Check JJ's numbers from 06-07 for a more accurate measure. Or, better yet, check his numbers for about the last 40 games last season after he got healthy and he was much better. Also, the addition of Bibby has TREMENDOUSLY helped him, he won player of the month in March and player of the week in the first week of April, as well as playing very well in the playoffs (before Boston started triple teaming him). Even though Bibby isn't as good as he was earlier in his career, he is unbelievably better than Lue or Anthony Johnson. I get sick to my stomach thinking about those two running our team for 3 years.

Thanks for chiming in. I'm not saying that JJ is a bad player. I would love to have him on my team. But to suggest that his production is comparable to Bosh's is silly.

If you accept that PER is a good measure of overall production, here are the numbers for the last 3 years (since Johnson moved to Atlanta and Carter left town):

Code: Select all

         Bosh  Johnson
2005-06  23.2   17.9
2006-07  22.6   19.3
2007-08  23.8   17.3

Johnson's numbers are consistent with those of a second banana. Bosh's numbers are those of a top dog.

[cdel00]

I'm with SS on this issue.

Bosh is much closer to LeBron's tier than JJs.

[NDaATL]

Well, I'm not a PER fan, but I'm also not trying to argue that JJ is better than Bosh. So it's not a big deal to me, they're both great players that can beat you on any given night.

[Shaazzam]

I'm with SS on this issue.

Bosh is much closer to LeBron's tier than JJs.

I am %100 quibbling, and I think I actually agree with you, but in my subjective, pulled out of my ass tiering of players they are relatively equal, and more importantly, are nowhere near Bron Bron's level.

I think they are or will be excellent players of their era, but guys like Kobe, Bron etc are in the greatest players of all time level of discussion. They are transcendent.

I read somewhere else on the (main)board that the DET model of building a champion might be overrated, but I would opine that if you don't have any of the guys that could be considered all time greats, it's your only shot. And I don't think CB4 or JJ are up there.

That's why ATL was supposed to go 0-22 this year, so we could create a dynamic duo here. Sorry Hawks fans, it's not nice to wish ill on other franchises, but you'se gots what I wants.

[chsh22]

I am %100 quibbling, and I think I actually agree with you, but in my subjective, pulled out of my ass tiering of players they are relatively equal, and more importantly, are nowhere near Bron Bron's level.

I think your subjective pulled-out-of-your-ass tiering of players sucks.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing JJ on our team.

[from24ft]

Did you say "pure threat"? What's a pure threat?

Let's look at his game log from last year, shall we:
Games where he shot below .420 (Mendoza Line for wing players): 40
Atlanta's record in those games: 13-27

Yes, that is what I said. All it means is that if I was to fear someone with the ball I would most likely fear JJ more so than Bosh. I think Bosh is great, but I feel Joe is more of a 'purer' threat than Bosh.

Although Bosh has improved dramatically in his ability to score when other teams know he is going to do so, I still feel that he is a long way off from the effortlessness that Joe exhibits.

I also feel that if you asked vets like Kobe who they would fear most with the ball, I think JJ would be a unanimous choice.



....again, I feel Bosh is the better asset, but to dismiss JJ as only a 17PER player is not telling the whole story.

[Ted Lasso]

You must be out of your f*ing minds. Joe Johnson is comparable to Chris Bosh? Really?

Dude shot .432 from the field last year and had a 17.3 PER. WTF!

Thank you.

[ToffKobe]

Who is this plural "you" that you speak of?

(Is it you'se? Like " What are you'se yutes doin dere?")

One of my favourite movies.

And what movie is this?

[Ted Lasso]

Yes, that is what I said. All it means is that if I was to fear someone with the ball I would most likely fear JJ more so than Bosh. I think Bosh is great, but I feel Joe is more of a 'purer' threat than Bosh.

Although Bosh has improved dramatically in his ability to score when other teams know he is going to do so, I still feel that he is a long way off from the effortlessness that Joe exhibits.

I also feel that if you asked vets like Kobe who they would fear most with the ball, I think JJ would be a unanimous choice.



....again, I feel Bosh is the better asset, but to dismiss JJ as only a 17PER player is not telling the whole story.

Why is that something that should be taken into consideration when judging a basketball player? And what exactly are you evaluating when you make that claim, his facial expression? Number of consecutive shots he makes? Because it is well-documented that Chris Bosh is a more efficient scorer.

Just because Joe Johnson shoots more off-balance, fade away jumpshots doesn't mean he is a better player or a better scorer, nor a more effortless one.

This is so the Michael Jordan effect.

[from24ft]

Yes, that is what I said. All it means is that if I was to fear someone with the ball I would most likely fear JJ more so than Bosh. I think Bosh is great, but I feel Joe is more of a 'purer' threat than Bosh.

Although Bosh has improved dramatically in his ability to score when other teams know he is going to do so, I still feel that he is a long way off from the effortlessness that Joe exhibits.

I also feel that if you asked vets like Kobe who they would fear most with the ball, I think JJ would be a unanimous choice.



....again, I feel Bosh is the better asset, but to dismiss JJ as only a 17PER player is not telling the whole story.

Why is that something that should be taken into consideration when judging a basketball player? And what exactly are you evaluating when you make that claim, his facial expression? Number of consecutive shots he makes? Because it is well-documented that Chris Bosh is a more efficient scorer.

Just because Joe Johnson shoots more off-balance, fade away jumpshots doesn't mean he is a better player or a better scorer, nor a more effortless one.

This is so the Michael Jordan effect.

Again. I am not trying to get in to a pissing contests, but Joe does a lot of things exceptionally well, there are aspects of his game that are better developed than Bosh's.

This does not mean I want to swap. I am just pointing it out because I hate it when a poster says that if you don't see things my way you must be crazy.


Also I think the writer is simply referring to impact over the start of the season. It is not about comparing their last three years, but their impact in the last 3-4 games.

[Komodo]

For the record, I would take Bosh over Johnson.

But having them both would be absolutely sick. Our three plus JJ? Where do I sign up?

[Eating a Book]

Can we trade JO for JJ and then Kapono for Rasho?

I miss Rasho.

[Ted Lasso]

Yes, that is what I said. All it means is that if I was to fear someone with the ball I would most likely fear JJ more so than Bosh. I think Bosh is great, but I feel Joe is more of a 'purer' threat than Bosh.

Although Bosh has improved dramatically in his ability to score when other teams know he is going to do so, I still feel that he is a long way off from the effortlessness that Joe exhibits.

I also feel that if you asked vets like Kobe who they would fear most with the ball, I think JJ would be a unanimous choice.



....again, I feel Bosh is the better asset, but to dismiss JJ as only a 17PER player is not telling the whole story.

Why is that something that should be taken into consideration when judging a basketball player? And what exactly are you evaluating when you make that claim, his facial expression? Number of consecutive shots he makes? Because it is well-documented that Chris Bosh is a more efficient scorer.

Just because Joe Johnson shoots more off-balance, fade away jumpshots doesn't mean he is a better player or a better scorer, nor a more effortless one.

This is so the Michael Jordan effect.

Again. I am not trying to get in to a pissing contests, but Joe does a lot of things exceptionally well, there are aspects of his game that are better developed than Bosh's.

This does not mean I want to swap. I am just pointing it out because I hate it when a poster says that if you don't see things my way you must be crazy.


Also I think the writer is simply referring to impact over the start of the season. It is not about comparing their last three years, but their impact in the last 3-4 games.

He is a better three point shooter and better a passer. To me, that is all. I just don't think they're in the same tier.. Now i see what you're saying though.

[[SJJ]]

Oh Grange... YOU WRONG!!!

[supersub15]

And what movie is this?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104952/

[TCHOKE]

What a joke...
this is like saying bosh=west

[omeloon]

You must be out of your f*ing minds. Joe Johnson is comparable to Chris Bosh? Really?

Dude shot .432 from the field last year and had a 17.3 PER. WTF!

Joe is more dangerous with the ball with the game close or on the line, and he showed how effective he can be in the playoffs. Bosh has shown that he's an incredible regular season player and would probably make an incredibly robin to someone's batman, but he still hasn't really shown he can put our team on his back effectively in the playoffs or when the opposing d really camps down on us. Both are great offensive weapons who do more than just score. Both helped lead their teams to pretty similar seasons last year. Don't see why it's so crazy.

[omeloon]

What a joke...
this is like saying bosh=west

Bosh is better. But until he plays with Chris Paul or does more in the playoffs, it's hard to PROVE he's much better - even though we all know it's true. Still not by as wide as a margin as most of us would like to think though

[cdel00]

I love CB4 and consider myself lucky that we have him. That being said I think that JJ and CB4 are and always will be in that tier just under the true maniacs in the L like Bron, Wade, Kobe, KG etc.

That's why I have been blathering on about stealing JJ since Ray Ray went to BOS. You are not going to win a 'chip with these guys as clearly your best player. They need a running mate on an equal level.

I think these two would be terrifying together.

JJ is number 5 in the Race to the MVP - Week 2, Bosh is number 4. If we had both it would be ridiculous.