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Don't blame everything on Sam

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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#121 » by Dogbert » Sat Nov 8, 2008 6:01 am

Buyaka wrote:I think it would be more or less the same amount of wins. JVG isn't going to get Calderon, Parker, and Moon to suddenly start playing better one-on-one defense or get them to close on shots better. Those three are what they are.


I can tell you with confidence that JVG will draw better set plays with significant benefits to Kapono and Bargnani. Our whole team will benefit from having more than just 3 offensive plays. We will also see improved rotations...[/quote]
You might be right. It's too bad this is something we can't know for sure.[/quote]

...and... why can't we find this out for sure?[/quote]
Because it's a subjective argument not based on facts.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#122 » by Rainbow » Sat Nov 8, 2008 6:04 am

You guys are right when saying that the team keeps making the same mistakes over and over again, season after season... and I don't think this has much to do with the players, but more with Sam's inability of recognizing his weaknesses and the willingness to address them......Think for a moment at the plays Sam is drawing out of the timeouts. As we all know most of them end up with either a circus shot or a contested jumper taken by a player that was not supposed to take that jumper in the first place.... and we have seen this every season since he's a coach...How this has something to do with the quality of the players he is provided with ?
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#123 » by Buyaka » Sat Nov 8, 2008 6:07 am

Dogbert wrote:
Buyaka wrote:I think it would be more or less the same amount of wins. JVG isn't going to get Calderon, Parker, and Moon to suddenly start playing better one-on-one defense or get them to close on shots better. Those three are what they are.


I can tell you with confidence that JVG will draw better set plays with significant benefits to Kapono and Bargnani. Our whole team will benefit from having more than just 3 offensive plays. We will also see improved rotations...

You might be right. It's too bad this is something we can't know for sure.[/quote]

...and... why can't we find this out for sure?[/quote]
Because it's a subjective argument not based on facts.[/quote]

Well, I am not going to argue semantics here, but my point is BC should simply replace Smitch with JVG or a similat X's and O's coach.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#124 » by 08HEMI » Sat Nov 8, 2008 6:07 am

Remember when Jim Todd refused to resign with us and was later quoted saying he couldnt work with Mitchell because he wouldnt listen to anyone and instead of staying and having the relationship go soar he left?

Good times.

So really you have a proven history of problems of coach with players, coach with staff, coach with draft picks being busts ( possibly all of them infact, at some point you have to question the coaching of these young guys), coach with hundreds if not thousands of glaring in game decision mistakes. I don't know how anyone who has reviewed the evidence, sat down and really thought about it could sit here with a straight face and say he hasn't been a problem or atleast part of the problem.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#125 » by 08HEMI » Sat Nov 8, 2008 6:08 am

Dogbert wrote:Because it's a subjective argument not based on facts.


JVG has coached in this league for many years the facts are there, go watch the tape.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#126 » by Kabookalu » Sat Nov 8, 2008 6:08 am

I think tonight's loss was a combination of both the lack of good perimeter players and Sam Mitchell being Sam Mitchell. A lot of turnovers were a result of a lack of capable ball handlers and guards, however, we're still seeing the same Raptors team that has plagued our stereotype year after year after year and quite frankly, it is sickening.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#127 » by ForeverTFC » Sat Nov 8, 2008 6:10 am

Dogbert wrote:
08HEMI wrote:[
Remember Kobe's 81 damn that was fun to LMAO. I remember it, that was when Sam refused to double him and just let him go off, its classic mitchell, double when you don't need to and don't double when you need to. He just has no clue how to adjust.

Sam doubled him, and even tripled him at a few points in the game. It didn't matter.


OK here we go every single one of Kobes 81 points versus us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRikrksH8es

I count 1 double team.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#128 » by Kabookalu » Sat Nov 8, 2008 6:11 am

08HEMI wrote:Remember when Jim Todd refused to resign with us and was later quoted saying he couldnt work with Mitchell because he wouldnt listen to anyone and instead of staying and having the relationship go soar he left?


Wow, I have honestly never heard this before...this really changes my perception of Sam Mitchell, no wonder we are still losing for the same reasons we've been losing to.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#129 » by Singh is King » Sat Nov 8, 2008 6:16 am

we never ever get easy baskets ever..its all bosh or jo iso's or 3 balls.. we hardly ever get easy shots..sam's offense is horrible, he never runs plays for anyone its a bosh iso and if that doesn;t work we're screwed
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#130 » by 08HEMI » Sat Nov 8, 2008 6:17 am

Choker wrote:
08HEMI wrote:Remember when Jim Todd refused to resign with us and was later quoted saying he couldnt work with Mitchell because he wouldnt listen to anyone and instead of staying and having the relationship go soar he left?


Wow, I have honestly never heard this before...this really changes my perception of Sam Mitchell, no wonder we are still losing for the same reasons we've been losing to.


Really? I thought everyone knew about this, its the reason he left. Jim Todd was offered a spot back with the raps but refused because of differences with Mitchell and he didn't want the relationship to get to the point of no return. The first game we faced the Bucks last year I believe was when this came out.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#131 » by jepjep » Sat Nov 8, 2008 6:22 am

ku9889 wrote:we never ever get easy baskets ever..its all bosh or jo iso's or 3 balls.. we hardly ever get easy shots..sam's offense is horrible, he never runs plays for anyone its a bosh iso and if that doesn;t work we're screwed


+100 I thought I'm the only one that noticed this...
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#132 » by W.I.C » Sat Nov 8, 2008 7:49 am

08HEMI wrote:Remember when Jim Todd refused to resign with us and was later quoted saying he couldnt work with Mitchell because he wouldnt listen to anyone and instead of staying and having the relationship go soar he left?


Not to say that I don't believe you, but do you have a source (link) to back up your claim?

ku9889 wrote:we never ever get easy baskets ever..its all bosh or jo iso's or 3 balls.. we hardly ever get easy shots..sam's offense is horrible, he never runs plays for anyone its a bosh iso and if that doesn;t work we're screwed


How are the Raptors going to get "easy shots" in a different manner when more often than not, their starting guards and small forward do not posses the ability to take their man off of the dribble, and/or penetrate into the lane? Ironically, as ballhandler Kapono probably had more success penetrating into the lane than Calderon or Parker.

Unless you expect O'Neal or Bosh to close line players, Off-the-ball screens can only do so much when attempting to get open shots for not-so-fast, not-so-crafty guards with average shot release times.

boshjonesford wrote:Sam is good except he shot stop telling his team to Double all the time. Bibby made three open 3s in he row.


When their guards get beat off of the dribble time and time again, what choice do they have but to send someone to play help D? Defensively, the main problem with the Raptors in this game was that the guards who got beat decided not rotate over afterwards, or they were very late on their rotation.

Also, you can't blame Sam Mitchell for sending double teams, when in some replays you *clearly* see Calderon gesturing for a teammate to come help him. Then, there are those times when you *clearly* hear Bosh saying "by himself, by himself", alluding to Parker, or Calderon having to play single coverage man-to-man defense...and as we saw...the opposing guards were too much for them to handle individually.

What I learned today is that in order to improve on last seasons effort, the Raptors need MUCH more than just Jermaine O'Neal's low post defensive presence, and it has very little to do with Sam Mitchell's coaching methodology.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#133 » by Phenomenologist » Sat Nov 8, 2008 7:52 am

The reason people blame Sam Mitchell is mostly to do with the fact that it is almost entirely his fault.

It seems like he developed his coaching strategy straight out of "Coaching Basketball for Dummies" or something. Everything he does is by rote, and he has no ability to adapt to changing situations. To wit, he chose to double team the Hawks on the interior despite them having zero double team worthy players, and despite the fact that Atlanta's perimeter players (most notably Bibby) were absolutely murdering us from the outside. I can just imagine him perusing the chapter on "Double Teaming", where he encounters a line that says something like: "It is typical to double team the opponents best player, but..." and without reading any further simply implementing that as though it were some definitive strategy. In fact, there is no reason to double team Atlanta - they don't have a dominant interior player, and JO, for all of his offensive troubles thus far, is still an excellent man defender (and Bosh is quite good as well, having forced Horford into quite a few terrible shots). Conversely, our wing players, outside of AP, are fairly atrocious defenders. So, it's a bit odd then when Mitchell insists on using our perimeter guys to help on the inside, when said perimeter players can barely deal with their own covers, let alone successfully play help defense. Clearly, given our team makeup (and given Atlanta's lack of a go-to scorer inside), we should be playing them straight up and using Bosh, JO (and Bargnani) to help if (and when) penetration occurs. This was the WHOLE point of getting JO to begin with. The idea was to funnel players to him when our wings were inevitably beaten. What we're doing now makes absolutely no sense.

Another great illustration of Sam's incompetence can be seen in his instructing Moon to leak out on the break despite the fact that the hyper-conservative Calderon is essentially useless in transition, and despite the fact that Moon is a vital rebounder on our extremely rebounding challenged team. Everyone wonders why we started the season so incompetently on the boards, but it's not really that surprising when one of your starters has his rebound rate plummet from 13.2 to 3.6 (nearly 9 per 40 minutes to 2.4 per 40). He went from being the top rebounding small forward in the league to a complete sieve, and this is mostly to do with the fact that he's been told to leak out (though I suspect that he's also not 100% healthy, as he's been quite the butter fingers to this point). Either way, this is a ridiculous notion. Adding JO makes us, if anything, an even more half-court oriented offense. This is especially true when you consider that he has absolutely no lift anymore and couldn't dream of making an outlet pass on the break, as he experiences extreme difficulty in even securing a rebound to begin with. Check out his numbers on the glass - he's been truly awful thus far.

Yet another indictment: Jason Kapono's stat line read 7-15 on FGs tonight. Do you know how many of those 15 attempts were 3 Pointers? zero. That's right - the guy who shoots nearly 50% from 3 took 15 shots and attempted not a single three pointer. That is absolutely egregious. And I'm watching these games. He's passing up wide open threes to take far more difficult long twos off the bounce. He happens to be such a good shooter that he still puts up halfway decent numbers anyway, but he actually shoots considerably better from 3PT range then he does from long 2PT range. Add in the extra point, and the expected value of points he's essentially flushing down the toilet is mind boggling. I have no idea why he's so intent on being thought of as more then just a "one trick pony". His one trick is incredible, and it's what earned him a 24 million dollar contract (well, that and an overly generous Bryan Colangelo). Unless the situation absolutely demands Kapono take a long 2, he should be firing from 3. And that should only happen at the end of a shot clock situation, or when he's really not open from 3 on the kickout, in which case I'd prefer him to pass the ball back to our PG or interior player anyway. We shouldn't even be running plays for him, except in very rare cases when we have no other offensive weapons on the floor. If Jason kapono doesn't shoot threes then he's a middling scorer (~50% TS) who offers little else. it's really that simple - if he doesn't jack treys, he can't play. And the fact that Sam Mitchell hasn't got this message across is mystifying. If you'll recall, the coaching staff in Miami basically gave him this very ultimatum the year before he came to Toronto. And even though he only partially acquiesced, he was still good enough to have a career year and put up a very respectable PER of nearly 14.

A more general observation is that Sam Mitchell offers his players little consistency. For example, we were struggling tonight (but still only down about 10-12), when he started erratically varying the rotations, and putting ridiculous (and unpracticed) lineups on the floor. These atypical groupings looked completely lost on both ends, and it was during this period when the lead ballooned from "long shot" to "entirely out of reach". Also, his substitution patterns in general leave a lot to be desired. He insists on benching anyone who gets the hot hand, rather choosing to force the offense through a player that is ice cold (the Pistons game was a perfect example, where Calderon and Bargnani got hot, and both got benched/stopped getting touches. Instead the ball was force fed inside to the ice cold O'neal on every play, except the one where we ran an ISO for the equally ice cold Anthony Parker). I mean just look at what our opponents do for some idea of what a competent coach does: Prince gets hot so he takes every shot. Bibby is smoking from downtown so he keeps firing away (the fact that we still insisted on double teaming inside and leaving Bibby wide open for trey after trey was incredibly maddening, but that's another story). As Dagger pointed out, "feeding the hot hand" is imperative in all sports. Clearly, every player can make the required physical motion to drain a shot, so much of the game to game variance in this regard comes from the psychological end. When a player is feeling it, he actually has a better current grasp on the physical motion he has to make in order to hit a shot, so he becomes a better shooter then his overall averages would suggest (just during that very short period of time). That's why feeding him until he loses that window is an absolute must. Yet Sam Mitchell seems to prescribe to the "you're hot, you're benched" school of thought instead - it's truly inexplicable.

There is so much more to complain about with regards to Sam Mitchell and his staff, but I've run out of energy. The OP wonders why everyone is so quick to jump on Sam Mitchell? Well, it's because he makes ill-advised decision after ill-advised decision, in the process almost singlehandedly running a fairly talented team into the ground. If things keep up as they are, you should all prepare yourselves for another season of mediocrity, because there's no way we're doing beans in the playoffs if something doesn't change.

ADD-ON: Obviously not everything can be blamed on Sam Mitchell, and certainly our players weren't stellar tonight, but many of our issues can be traced back to Mitchell's poor game planning and strategizing. Defense is very much an effort and strategy affair - results are much more malleable then offensive ones, because they depend much less on physical talent and much more on positioning and communication. If we had a stud like Tom Thibodeau as our head coach, I can almost guarantee, we would never put up the type of stinker we put up tonight.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#134 » by Alfred » Sat Nov 8, 2008 7:53 am

08HEMI wrote:Just like you expect players to improve their weaknesses and stop making the same mistakes play after play year after year the same goes for the coach. Sam wasn't a vet coach when he came here, this was his first gig and there is just some things he doesn't see. The wacky rotations, the defensive strategies which see scrubs lighting us up and good players lookin like hall of famers due to uncessary doubles. The lack of plays, the way he has crushed several players confidence, his over reliance on hard working scrubs, his refusal to play players to their strengths and call plays for the guys who are hot and are scorers, year after year game after game, different roster after different roster it just keeps happening and it cannot be ignored.

Im not saying im smarter than him either but some of the things are so obvious it just makes you want to smash something lol. He was a decent player, he is a good guy, he is funny, he can motivate certain players but not every player is the same, and he has decent knowledge of the game but he is not good enough and he just has not acknowledged his own mistakes and corrected them.

Tonight was a perfect example with Bibby scoring 19 points in the half. 16 or so of those points came from Sam sending a guy to double leaving him open, now you think after 6-9 straight points and Bibby being wide open everytime down the court he would of adjusted, but did he? No he didn't and the problem is he never does. The only adjustment he will make in this situation is sending out another player to look like an idiot and then blaming him for guys like Bibby being wide open because we asked our guy to double some where.


This is an incredibly good post. Except for a few things I don't agree with, this is almost dead on what I think. His flaws can be very, very glaring at times.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#135 » by GCougar » Sat Nov 8, 2008 8:05 am

If this season goes south, should be some great grumpy Sam pressers. Good times.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#136 » by J Dilla » Sat Nov 8, 2008 8:14 am

I blame Bryan Colangelo. I'm not overreacting, but there will be many nights like this until the current makeup of the team is changed.

Bryan Colangelo continues to screw up this team. We had TJ Ford who had the skills of a wing player got traded for a declining but hard working JO. We have JO, but how do we replace our lack of creative players who can put the ball on the floor and attack the hoop? All the assets were traded for JO so now the Raptors are stuck, and Sam Mitchell will have to somehow take this team to the 2nd round. I think it's BC's fault. He keeps adding these crappy bigs while ignoring this teams biggest weaknesses I mentioned above. Maybe its not his style, maybe he just wants shooting.

I don't know how you can expect Sam Mitchell to win in this roster he currently has. Bryan Colangelo has been all hype so far, and I haven't been impressed with the moves he has made.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#137 » by Kabookalu » Sat Nov 8, 2008 8:32 am

J Dilla wrote:I blame Bryan Colangelo. I'm not overreacting, but there will be many nights like this until the current makeup of the team is changed.

Bryan Colangelo continues to screw up this team. We had TJ Ford who had the skills of a wing player got traded for a declining but hard working JO. We have JO, but how do we replace our lack of creative players who can put the ball on the floor and attack the hoop? All the assets were traded for JO so now the Raptors are stuck, and Sam Mitchell will have to somehow take this team to the 2nd round. I think it's BC's fault. He keeps adding these crappy bigs while ignoring this teams biggest weaknesses I mentioned above. Maybe its not his style, maybe he just wants shooting.

I don't know how you can expect Sam Mitchell to win in this roster he currently has. Bryan Colangelo has been all hype so far, and I haven't been impressed with the moves he has made.


It was evident we needed a big man in the middle and we had two quality point guards. While I would have stuck with Ford the more popular and publicly safe choice to keep was Calderon. And BC made this team a playoff team as soon as he got here. I don't know how you can blame him, if anything, blame Mitchell for everything that Phenomenologist has pointed out:

The reason people blame Sam Mitchell is mostly to do with the fact that it is almost entirely his fault.

It seems like he developed his coaching strategy straight out of "Coaching Basketball for Dummies" or something. Everything he does is by rote, and he has no ability to adapt to changing situations. To wit, he chose to double team the Hawks on the interior despite them having zero double team worthy players, and despite the fact that Atlanta's perimeter players (most notably Bibby) were absolutely murdering us from the outside. I can just imagine him perusing the chapter on "Double Teaming", where he encounters a line that says something like: "It is typical to double team the opponents best player, but..." and without reading any further simply implementing that as though it were some definitive strategy. In fact, there is no reason to double team Atlanta - they don't have a dominant interior player, and JO, for all of his offensive troubles thus far, is still an excellent man defender (and Bosh is quite good as well, having forced Horford into quite a few terrible shots). Conversely, our wing players, outside of AP, are fairly atrocious defenders. So, it's a bit odd then when Mitchell insists on using our perimeter guys to help on the inside, when said perimeter players can barely deal with their own covers, let alone successfully play help defense. Clearly, given our team makeup (and given Atlanta's lack of a go-to scorer inside), we should be playing them straight up and using Bosh, JO (and Bargnani) to help if (and when) penetration occurs. This was the WHOLE point of getting JO to begin with. The idea was to funnel players to him when our wings were inevitably beaten. What we're doing now makes absolutely no sense.

Another great illustration of Sam's incompetence can be seen in his instructing Moon to leak out on the break despite the fact that the hyper-conservative Calderon is essentially useless in transition, and despite the fact that Moon is a vital rebounder on our extremely rebounding challenged team. Everyone wonders why we started the season so incompetently on the boards, but it's not really that surprising when one of your starters has his rebound rate plummet from 13.2 to 3.6 (nearly 9 per 40 minutes to 2.4 per 40). He went from being the top rebounding small forward in the league to a complete sieve, and this is mostly to do with the fact that he's been told to leak out (though I suspect that he's also not 100% healthy, as he's been quite the butter fingers to this point). Either way, this is a ridiculous notion. Adding JO makes us, if anything, an even more half-court oriented offense. This is especially true when you consider that he has absolutely no lift anymore and couldn't dream of making an outlet pass on the break, as he experiences extreme difficulty in even securing a rebound to begin with. Check out his numbers on the glass - he's been truly awful thus far.

Yet another indictment: Jason Kapono's stat line read 7-15 on FGs tonight. Do you know how many of those 15 attempts were 3 Pointers? zero. That's right - the guy who shoots nearly 50% from 3 took 15 shots and attempted not a single three pointer. That is absolutely egregious. And I'm watching these games. He's passing up wide open threes to take far more difficult long twos off the bounce. He happens to be such a good shooter that he still puts up halfway decent numbers anyway, but he actually shoots considerably better from 3PT range then he does from long 2PT range. Add in the extra point, and the expected value of points he's essentially flushing down the toilet is mind boggling. I have no idea why he's so intent on being thought of as more then just a "one trick pony". His one trick is incredible, and it's what earned him a 24 million dollar contract (well, that and an overly generous Bryan Colangelo). Unless the situation absolutely demands Kapono take a long 2, he should be firing from 3. And that should only happen at the end of a shot clock situation, or when he's really not open from 3 on the kickout, in which case I'd prefer him to pass the ball back to our PG or interior player anyway. We shouldn't even be running plays for him, except in very rare cases when we have no other offensive weapons on the floor. If Jason kapono doesn't shoot threes then he's a middling scorer (~50% TS) who offers little else. it's really that simple - if he doesn't jack treys, he can't play. And the fact that Sam Mitchell hasn't got this message across is mystifying. If you'll recall, the coaching staff in Miami basically gave him this very ultimatum the year before he came to Toronto. And even though he only partially acquiesced, he was still good enough to have a career year and put up a very respectable PER of nearly 14.

A more general observation is that Sam Mitchell offers his players little consistency. For example, we were struggling tonight (but still only down about 10-12), when he started erratically varying the rotations, and putting ridiculous (and unpracticed) lineups on the floor. These atypical groupings looked completely lost on both ends, and it was during this period when the lead ballooned from "long shot" to "entirely out of reach". Also, his substitution patterns in general leave a lot to be desired. He insists on benching anyone who gets the hot hand, rather choosing to force the offense through a player that is ice cold (the Pistons game was a perfect example, where Calderon and Bargnani got hot, and both got benched/stopped getting touches. Instead the ball was force fed inside to the ice cold O'neal on every play, except the one where we ran an ISO for the equally ice cold Anthony Parker). I mean just look at what our opponents do for some idea of what a competent coach does: Prince gets hot so he takes every shot. Bibby is smoking from downtown so he keeps firing away (the fact that we still insisted on double teaming inside and leaving Bibby wide open for trey after trey was incredibly maddening, but that's another story). As Dagger pointed out, "feeding the hot hand" is imperative in all sports. Clearly, every player can make the required physical motion to drain a shot, so much of the game to game variance in this regard comes from the psychological end. When a player is feeling it, he actually has a better current grasp on the physical motion he has to make in order to hit a shot, so he becomes a better shooter then his overall averages would suggest (just during that very short period of time). That's why feeding him until he loses that window is an absolute must. Yet Sam Mitchell seems to prescribe to the "you're hot, you're benched" school of thought instead - it's truly inexplicable.

There is so much more to complain about with regards to Sam Mitchell and his staff, but I've run out of energy. The OP wonders why everyone is so quick to jump on Sam Mitchell? Well, it's because he makes ill-advised decision after ill-advised decision, in the process almost singlehandedly running a fairly talented team into the ground. If things keep up as they are, you should all prepare yourselves for another season of mediocrity, because there's no way we're doing beans in the playoffs if something doesn't change.

ADD-ON: Obviously not everything can be blamed on Sam Mitchell, and certainly our players weren't stellar tonight, but many of our issues can be traced back to Mitchell's poor game planning and strategizing. Defense is very much an effort and strategy affair - results are much more malleable then offensive ones, because they depend much less on physical talent and much more on positioning and communication. If we had a stud like Tom Thibodeau as our head coach, I can almost guarantee, we would never put up the type of stinker we put up tonight.


BTW, phenomenal post, all the thoughts in my head that have yet to materialize into words have been spoken in this very post. These reasons have been beaten to death before but this puts it into great detail.
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#138 » by StringerBell » Sat Nov 8, 2008 9:00 am

Mufasa wrote:I'm sick of people yelling "20 ppg scorer! We need 20 ppg scorer!" when asked about our issues. This team should have no problem scoring as it is... Jose and Bosh are stars, put them with JO on the inside and lights out shooting on the outside and we should be able to light teams like like a chandalier... we don't really need more offensive weapons.

I've been anti-Sam for years... he's exactly the guy you want on that 47 win team two years ago, he got us to win based on chemistry and excitement... an upstart coach. But that won't cut it when you have to slow things down and take the next step, where you can consistently impose your strengths on other teams and expose them, where you can figure out how to beat teams consistently strategically over simply outworking and hustling them. Philadelphia is discovering that truth with Mo Cheeks right now... the guy was awesome for the Sixers team last year that relied on athleticism and their momentum to carry them into their playoffs. But he can't figure out a half court set worth balls, he hasn't figured out how to incorporate Brand and impose his team's strengths. The Sixers have no shooters, so they should logically look at what they do have over other teams, and that's athleticism and speed, inside strength, and defensive ability, and maximize those. Sam's situation is even worse though because there's no gaping weakness on this team like no shooting... We have amazing shooters, we have a top 5 or 6 PG, we have a top 5 PF, we have a defensive center... our lineup is damn good and Sam is lost just like he was the last two years when he got outcoached by Laurence Frank and then raped by Stan Van Gundy... at this point our chances of winning a playoff series are slim to none. Do I say that because I'm panacing? Of course not, it's just one game in a long season. But look at who we'll be playing in the playoffs - a) Cavs. Lebron and all mega wing scorers usually own us to all hell. Plus they look pretty damn good this year. b) Magic. Stan Van Gundy rapes Sam Mitchell, as proven by last season. That team is exactly the opposite of ours... they just run their inside out system exceptionally well, using the presence of Howard to open up the outside and create the best 3 point shooting team in the league. There's a longshot we get the Celtics or Pistons... in which case, yeah, we lose. I think our best chance of making it to round 2 was to play the Sixers in the 1st round, but guess what, they suck!

I dunno... I guess I'm just angry. I suppose the defensive effort showed in the first 3 games was an improvement... slightly. I just cream my pants at the thought of someone like Stan or Jeff Van Gundy getting control of our roster... and then we have Sam.



Reading posts like this make me want to flip the f -out. First off Calderon is NOT a top 10 PG in the NBA let alng top 5. (see Davis, Arenas, Bibby - yeah I said it, D-Will, Paul, Nash, Miller, Parker, Ford yeah I said it again,)

Secondly, in the playoffs last year we had Bosh lining up againgst howard - a trade off....and parker and moon matching up against up against Lewis and Turkoglu..hmmmm.

Thirdly this roster is one of the thinest I've ever seen. Who's the eigth man coming off the bench? Ukic or Solomon??? Come game 40 Bosh and Calderon are gonna be wornb out....Our wings are Parker who is a 34 year old who can't ecpect to stay in front of most SF's night in and night out, Moon who we can agree is just useless and Kapono who got 20 min a night in Miami 2 years aago.

There were a couple instances last night when the defensive roataion was soooooo slow I thought it was in slo -mo replay.
When you guys ask yourself what the deepest position is in the NBA , you're most likely to come to the comclusion that it's the SF or SG position. Now what are our weakest positions???? And how exactly is this Sam Mitchell's fault??
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#139 » by ForeverTFC » Sat Nov 8, 2008 12:56 pm

How is he not a top 10 PG in this league. even by your own count he would be the 10th best. I guess its all moot when players and analyst have been calling the guy one of the best. You, however, know exactly what you are talking about.

this fascination people on this board have with our sg/sf combo is disgusting. Why not start talking about what mitchell does have. Top 3 power forward in the league. Check. Former All Star Center, great defensive mind and at a times still commands a double team. Check. Pass first PG who can get the ball where it needs to be . check. 3 swingmen who will connect on their shot at 50%. Check. A 7 footer who can play at times in the post, can ring it in from downtown and spread the floor on the offensive end. check

Lets assume for the sake of argument the players are terrible on the defensive end and so Mitchell cannot do much more. Now lets go to the offensive end. Look at all the tools he has. A great coach would find a way to maximize those strenghts. We labour on the court at all times. Nothing ever comes easy. is this not on the coach to draw up plays to come up with easy shots?
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Re: Don't blame everything on Sam 

Post#140 » by tb40 » Sat Nov 8, 2008 1:27 pm

Long time anti Smitch guy here.

Nice to see so many who have seen the light.

Seriously, there have been some rather incredible posts in this thread outlining in detail Sam's complete incompetence as a head coach.

Phenom, hemi, prince and others.... keep up the good work.

The way I look at it is, one more loss is just another nail in the coffin for this guy, and I really don't care who takes over, heck, I'd even take hemi and his buddies at this point.

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