Can a player just improve his perimeter D?

J-Roc · Post #1 » by **J-Roc** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 2:34 pm

I'm a realist, and although the easy fix seems to be to just go after better players, that's not happening any time soon.

Two years ago, AP was able to guard his position as well as anyone on the team. Last year he lost a step. This year, other teams actually seem to have him on the scouting report, and want to attack him.

And we expected teams to want to attack Jose. And even Moon can't guard his position. We keep hearing about how players need to "take it upon themselves" to keep their man in front of them, etc, etc. Seems to me this is all just a lot of talk. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken....

So, what might be the answer? The roster is set. Can individuals just get better or is there some defensive scheme we can employ?

the_real_deception · Post #2 » by **the_real_deception** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 2:55 pm

i think kapono and caledron are arguably in the top five worst defenders in the league category. so thats a point of no return for me.

08HEMI · Post #3 » by **08HEMI** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 3:11 pm

Guys like Kapono no and probably not Jose at 27 either, but you can have them funnel their man into the help downlow and you can send help to them once and a while to mix it up. For some odd reason we do the reverse, we highlight their weakness and make them look even worse than they are by sending help downlow where its not needed.

bakafool · Post #4 » by **bakafool** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 3:18 pm

At this point all I want is for Jose and JK to read the scouting report and let their man shoot the lower percentage shot. If the guy can't shoot, lay off of him. If not, dare him to drive to where the help will be. Just force the opponent to take the lower percentage shot.

EventHorizon · Post #5 » by **EventHorizon** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 4:35 pm

I like and support Kapono, but it seem that he values his 3pt % above the success of the team. This is evident trough the number of 3's he takes during games and the numerous times he steps over the 3pt line when it's not necessary.

He should be the last person we trade, but if it improves the team, BC should not hesitate.

TR50 · Post #6 » by **TR50** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 5:03 pm

I swear you can make chicken salad out of chicken.....

Dennis P · Post #7 » by **Dennis P** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 5:26 pm

08HEMI wrote:Guys like Kapono no and probably not Jose at 27 either, but you can have them funnel their man into the help downlow and you can send help to them once and a while to mix it up. For some odd reason we do the reverse, we highlight their weakness and make them look even worse than they are by sending help downlow where its not needed.

Don't you think that puts great pressure on our interior d? While that is an option its not a solution it puts our bigs into foul trouble against quicker players.

Dennis P · Post #8 » by **Dennis P** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 5:28 pm

bakafool wrote:At this point all I want is for Jose and JK to read the scouting report and let their man shoot the lower percentage shot. If the guy can't shoot, lay off of him. If not, dare him to drive to where the help will be. Just force the opponent to take the lower percentage shot.

How do you just do that? if the guy they are guarding has 1000000000000 times more foot speed than them isn't it impossible to force them into low percentage shots?

Post #9 » by **Rooster** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 5:35 pm

EventHorizon wrote:I like and support Kapono, but it seem that he values his 3pt % above the success of the team. This is evident trough the number of 3's he takes during games and the numerous times he steps over the 3pt line when it's not necessary.

He should be the last person we trade, but if it improves the team, BC should not hesitate.

I think defence is a lot more innate than a lot of people want to make it seem. It's not just athleticism and it's not just heart. We need to upgrade at SG and it's painfully obvious.

Dennis P · Post #10 » by **Dennis P** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 5:52 pm

Rooster wrote:
EventHorizon wrote:I like and support Kapono, but it seem that he values his 3pt % above the success of the team. This is evident trough the number of 3's he takes during games and the numerous times he steps over the 3pt line when it's not necessary.

He should be the last person we trade, but if it improves the team, BC should not hesitate.

I think defence is a lot more innate than a lot of people want to make it seem. It's not just athleticism and it's not just heart. We need to upgrade at SG and it's painfully obvious.

athleticism is definitely a key component. AP was more than adequate 2yrs ago and now he gets ripped apart.

Post #11 » by **Rooster** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 6:03 pm

It's part but not the whole. What I was saying is that not everyone with the requisite amount of athleticism and heart can be a good defender.

microfib4thewin · Post #12 » by **microfib4thewin** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 7:01 pm

Improving on defense is possible. Melo this year has improved on that department, but the problem in this league is that youngsters are more interested in scoring than playing D, and once you get old it would be much harder to learn. The problem with the Raptors is that they do hard double teams on ANYONE who has the ball, even a low caliber team would know how to react. If you look at Boston, they were one of the worst defensive teams in 07, Rondo wasn't too spectacular in his rookie year, and Perkins was considered a softie who still has trouble adjusting coming out of high school. What the Raps need first is a consistent team defense, none of those zone at one possession and then strict man to man on the next. Since the Raps are a pretty young team and they don't have any quality defenders at the wing they can try to employ the soft zone that Boston uses. By overloading on the strong side without any strict double teaming the weaknesses of the individual defenders will be minimized. Guys like Calderon and Kapono will still need to learn how to play D, but learning team defense is much more important than practicing on the ball defense.

J-Roc · Post #13 » by **J-Roc** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 7:56 pm

I guess at the end of the day, if we're going to beat the Hawks, we need to shoot the lights out or hope a guy like Bibby has an offnight shooting. It's sad that we have JO this year, but we have such a huge hole in our game.

Death Knight · Post #14 » by **Death Knight** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 8:00 pm

It's all about knowing your opponents strengths/weaknesses and likes/dislikes.

I've seen defenses play crappy shooters very tight as if they can actually stroke it or something.......total failure as a defender right there. Then there is the vice versa...

You get the point. It can be improved to a certain extent if you study your scouting reports.

knickerbocker2k2 · Post #15 » by **knickerbocker2k2** » Sat Nov 8, 2008 8:27 pm

I think our defensive strategy makes this players look worse then they are on defense. After watching Sam teams for 4 years, I'm convinced that our getting beat on the perimeter is more the result of our defensive philosophy then individual player abilities.

1) This team is totally help oriented on defense. And not only are we help oreinted, but our help primarily comes from PG or SG. If you look our double is primarily always coming from Calderon/Parker our guards. This makes them look bad because their guy is always open because they are helping on somebody else.

2) With the death of post play vast majority of teams points come from penetration and kick. So when you watch an average NBA game, you will see A LOT of guards penetrating and beating other guards off the dribble. Even good defensive teams allow penetration. The difference is how teams REACT to this penetration.

Last night we saw why Sam defensive strategy is horrible. The problem started when he started doubling JJ not by trapping him, but trying to get the ball out of his hands by doubling with Calderon. Any guard with any passing ability will easily find the open man and burn you (ala all the open Bibby looks). Sure JJ made couple of tough buckets, but you will have great players make these plays, and you just have to tip your hat when they do. Instead Sam panicked and tried to take the ball away from JJ by having Calderon double before he even entered the paint.

I think with 3 athletic and long forwards (JO, Bosh, Moon) our strategy should be let them penetrate. Instead of having Calderon/Parker react to penetration by collapsing right away and allowing the easy pass to open 3. By allowing them to penetrate in the paint you have one of Forwards step up. Then you can have your defense rotate, and it forces the penetrator to make 1) a tougher pass 2)atleast two passes before they get open J.

Instead Sam is relying on teams guards missing open 3s.