Does anyone see how bright the Raptors future is?

[The_Hater]

Any chance at a bright future could go completely down the tube if Bosh bolts this summer. This is an 18-23 win team without Bosh.

Yes because we can win 32 games with him, miss the playoffs and miss out on top three talent in the draft.

Sorry i'd rather win 18-23 and get a top three pick if thats the case.

One winning season in six years, yippeeee

This is where the logic of the people making this argument, such of yourself, goes completely out the window.

So Bosh, by far our best player leaves, we get nothing in return for our best player (a double whammy) and then the Raps bottom out and get a high pick. At that point, if the Raps get exceedingly lucky in the lottery, they will be able to draft a player who is on Bosh's level. that's the best case scenerio. You could also get a lesser player on Bargs level or a complete dog on Araujo's level. And we've experienced all 3 of these types of lottery picks, haven't we?

So where does that leave us? Lottery pick, Bargs bad contract, Hedo's bad contracts, Jose's bad contract, DeRozan (future role player) and Jack (current role player).

What makes you think that we're so much better off losing Bosh for nothing and being stuck with that miss-mash of junk? Translation: We're not going to get better until we add other all-star caliber players to the team to help Bosh. Subsequently, if we get rid of the only all-star talent we currently have, we're going to be very, very bad.

Now if you're argument was 'let's trade Bosh and get something for him before he leaves' that would be completely different. But letting your best player walk for nothing and then try to convince yourself that this is a good thing? That's just idiotic.

[basketball royalty]

I like it. IMO Bosh and Bargs are great building blocks and it is all about putting the right pieces around those two. Also, really like DeMar's potential.

Defense will be a problem though because of having Hedo locked up long term, it is not a surprise for me to have seen what was probably our best defensive effort of the season with both Hedo and Jose out. Bargs certainly held his own against arguably the best post player of the decade.

[gregdj]

If Derozan improves the way he should (A 17ppgish scorer by year 3) I don't see why this team won't be winning 50 games consistently every season. That's if Bosh stays.

by year 3? im saying by year 2...

[BranGor]

If Derozan improves the way he should (A 17ppgish scorer by year 3) I don't see why this team won't be winning 50 games consistently every season. That's if Bosh stays.

by year 3? im saying by year 2...

Can you name another player that lacks a jumpshot, has a poor handle and is the 4/5th option on the team that averages 15+?

I like Derozan and all, but come on. Right now his ceiling is probably between Ronnie Brewer and Igoudala.

[timdunkit]

See that's the problem, I'm not nearly as convinced as many others in this thread seem to be of that indeed being true.

3 of the top 4 players have contracts that will either be very difficult to move for anything of value. Turk and Barg's contracts are both downright ridiculous and each could be near impossible to move while Jose's looks worse and worse the more it leaks out about what a terrible defender he is. I think he's the most tradeable of the 3, but not by a lot.

Personally, I don't think it will be all that easy for BC to change the direction of the team without taking a huge-long step backwards. People also forget that BC already forfeited two 1st round picks making all his changes in 2008-09. Many Raptor fans were highly impressed with all his moves but completely ignored the collateral damage that was inflicted just to build a .500 team full of bad contracts.

This is where I disagree ... To me anyone who produces in this league has some sort of value and can fetch something. Despite the contracts of Hedo/Jose being bad, there still two guys who are productive. The value of your players change to you, when the direction of your franchise change. Right now BC is trying to think "Win NOW, with a relatively young team". If we were to lose Bosh, what do you think BC thinks of Hedo and Jose? His thinking might change to that of trying to rebuild and make flexibility again and he might value Jose and Hedo for differnet (for win now, he'd be looking for upgrade in talent or fit, for rebuilding maybe lesser contracts and etc).

If Bosh leaves, BC has two opportunities to captilize on capspace in free agency for instant. In 2010 he would have 8-10 mill or so of space but he were to move one of the contracts, he could open up more space. In 2011 (assuming Bosh is gone), the highest salary we can be at is going to be at the cap or close to (unless Bosh goes in a trade) and with Banks/Evens coming of, we could be looking at another year where we can spend 8-10 mill of capspace on a free agent without moving one of these big contracts. We could use capspace in terms of free agency or we could try to capitalize on someones poor financial trouble teams.

I think the collateral damage was actually quite low ... BC spent a lot of money, but he didn't spend it on deadweight. He didn't spend the MLE harshly on a guy who had a Jerome James type season (good playoffs and doesn't produce after contract) and the vet he got is earning 2 mill more then he should be but is atleast producing. The pick he gave away isn't going to hurt us because the only way we can give the pick away is if we make the playoffs. In the case that we make the playoffs and Bosh leaves, it might hurt us a bit but we are talking about a 16-30th round pick and I'm quite sure we could get one of those back if we ask for it in a SnT for Bosh (to help him get his true max) to replace it. In the case we miss the playoffs, the pick is all ours til 2015? 2016?

[Too Late Crew]

how about 'finesse' players like bosh and bargnani? see any improvements in their games over the past few years?

+1

Regardless of the "theories" some people have posted about players games remaining stagnant - the fact is Bosh, Bargs and even Jose has all evolved their games over the last 3 years.

After last nights game I think there is even hope for Bargs being a defensive force one day! Things change and players change. ..For example:
What if Bargs put on another 15-20 lbs of muscle this summer?
What if Bargs played PF on a team?

This is not a theory its fact.

Bargs at age 23 (all stats per 36 minutes to avoid changes strictly due to increase in minutes)
17.6 ppg 6.1 rpg 1.4 blks

Age 24 17.8 ppg 6.4 rpg 1.4 blks.

Are those big improvements? NOPE They are incremental. In fact if you look at his rookie per 36 stats the improvements are INCREMENTAL There is no basis to think that Bargs is going to see a huge jump at age 25. Adding more muscle will not help. Getting in better shape has helped vs rookie year. He was pretyy bad and it has helped his athletic abiltiy. There is a poiojt of diminishing returns though. At a certain point getting in better shape doesn't mean as much.

Bosh? At 24 he was 22 and 10 now he's 24 and 11. Is it an improvement? Yes. Is it huge ...doing something he hasn't shown before? NOPE.

Jose? His scoring and assists (per 36) are LOWER than when he was 25. Jose isn't some young guy. He's 13-14 ppg 7-8 apg and bad defense. He's not going to be anything more Not at 28 years old he's not.

[Prop]

how about 'finesse' players like bosh and bargnani? see any improvements in their games over the past few years?

+1

Regardless of the "theories" some people have posted about players games remaining stagnant - the fact is Bosh, Bargs and even Jose has all evolved their games over the last 3 years.

After last nights game I think there is even hope for Bargs being a defensive force one day! Things change and players change. ..For example:
What if Bargs put on another 15-20 lbs of muscle this summer?
What if Bargs played PF on a team?

This is not a theory its fact.

Bargs at age 23 (all stats per 36 minutes to avoid changes strictly due to increase in minutes)
17.6 ppg 6.1 rpg 1.4 blks

Age 24 17.8 ppg 6.4 rpg 1.4 blks.

Are those big improvements? NOPE They are incremental. In fact if you look at his rookie per 36 stats the improvements are INCREMENTAL There is no basis to think that Bargs is going to see a huge jump at age 25. Adding more muscle will not help. Getting in better shape has helped vs rookie year. He was pretyy bad and it has helped his athletic abiltiy. There is a poiojt of diminishing returns though. At a certain point getting in better shape doesn't mean as much.

Bosh? At 24 he was 22 and 10 now he's 24 and 11. Is it an improvement? Yes. Is it huge ...doing something he hasn't shown before? NOPE.

Jose? His scoring and assists (per 36) are LOWER than when he was 25. Jose isn't some young guy. He's 13-14 ppg 7-8 apg and bad defense. He's not going to be anything more Not at 28 years old he's not.

pffft. once bosh leaves bargs will get mo shats and score whatever his age is per game. i look forward to the 35 year old 35 ppg il mago.

[forrestek]

how about 'finesse' players like bosh and bargnani? see any improvements in their games over the past few years?

+1

Regardless of the "theories" some people have posted about players games remaining stagnant - the fact is Bosh, Bargs and even Jose has all evolved their games over the last 3 years.

After last nights game I think there is even hope for Bargs being a defensive force one day! Things change and players change. ..For example:
What if Bargs put on another 15-20 lbs of muscle this summer?
What if Bargs played PF on a team?

This is not a theory its fact.

Bargs at age 23 (all stats per 36 minutes to avoid changes strictly due to increase in minutes)
17.6 ppg 6.1 rpg 1.4 blks

Age 24 17.8 ppg 6.4 rpg 1.4 blks.

Are those big improvements? NOPE They are incremental. In fact if you look at his rookie per 36 stats the improvements are INCREMENTAL There is no basis to think that Bargs is going to see a huge jump at age 25. Adding more muscle will not help. Getting in better shape has helped vs rookie year. He was pretyy bad and it has helped his athletic abiltiy. There is a poiojt of diminishing returns
though. At a certain point getting in better shape doesn't mean as much.

Bosh? At 24 he was 22 and 10 now he's 24 and 11. Is it an improvement? Yes. Is it huge ...doing something he hasn't shown before? NOPE.

Jose? His scoring and assists (per 36) are LOWER than when he was 25. Jose isn't some young guy. He's 13-14 ppg 7-8 apg and bad defense. He's not going to be anything more Not at 28 years old he's not.

That’s so weak! …you even agreed with me that bosh has had a “huge improvement” !
Clearly there is a huge difference in watching their games due to experience and in the case of Bosh and Bargs more beef. This can be seen mostly on man defence, but also gives them more leverage and knowledge on offense. Next year with even more experience and strength I see further upside!

[HMFFL]

Credits: • Toronto will receive a 2015 second-round pick from the Clippers (Hassan Adams trade).

Debits: • Miami receives Toronto's 2010 first-round pick (top-14 protected through 2014) as part of Shawn Marion trade.

This first round pick is needed so you can fill or develop a need. Also the possibility to move it to acquire future value, or to involve it with a contract that you would prefer to get out of. The one contract I believe the ownership should focus on moving is Jose Calderon. Besides that Marcus Banks goes off after one more season.

Marco Belinelli is doing what I expected with the minutes he receives. I believe his value is only increasing and moving him is an option to gain value.

The future is still bright even if it looks a bit dark right now.

[chuckerz]

If the group sticks together for a couple more years, this team can improve rather than just rebuilding every few years like what's been happening with the raps the last few years.

[So Clutch]

If Derozan improves the way he should (A 17ppgish scorer by year 3) I don't see why this team won't be winning 50 games consistently every season. That's if Bosh stays.

by year 3? im saying by year 2...

Can you name another player that lacks a jumpshot, has a poor handle and is the 4/5th option on the team that averages 15+?

I like Derozan and all, but come on. Right now his ceiling is probably between Ronnie Brewer and Igoudala.

I'm the biggest DeRozan fanboy, but objectively how long will it take for him to be a 15 point scorer? You can't be a 15 point scorer if you're the 5th option out there, you cant do it as the 4th option either. When is DD going to be more than option four on a team with offensively capable players like Bosh, Bargs, Turk, Jack, Jose around.

[thePaladin]

We will make the playoffs.

only thing im a little disappointed on is hedo's contribution so far.. he regressed from his orlando numbers.. i think that's because bc pushed him too much on being the 2nd leader of this team... which he wasn't in orlando...nor spurs and kings

Who was the 2nd leader in Orlando then? Hedo was the guy that handled and made all the decisions for them in the 4th quarter.

[Dr Positivity]

The Bosh and Bargnani era is definitely "on track" to be really good by their late 20s. If Bosh leaves after this season it'll be an even bigger heartbreak/what if moment than Vince and Bosh staying together (I have my doubts about Vince ever leading a perenially terrific team, mentally). I feel like if Bosh and Bargnani stay together we'll be a perenniel 50 win team eventually, we're starting to prove we can play d enough with that frontcourt

[Dr Positivity]

And I continue to find HP's timing dropping in and out of his forum to be hilarious. As soon as we start averaging like 95ppg defensively with Bargnani and start winning, he once again becomes MIA...

[The Notic]

The Bosh and Bargnani era is definitely "on track" to be really good by their late 20s. If Bosh leaves after this season it'll be an even bigger heartbreak/what if moment than Vince and Bosh staying together.

lol. you're a great poster but this is just dumb.

[Pchu]

The best case scenario for this team is to re-sign Bosh and then try to trade Bargnani. I don't think his contract is unmovable. Lots of teams place too much emphasis on points scoring (including this one), that they may overlook his other weaknesses. Anyway, I just don't think Bosh and Bargnani is a good combo for this team.

If we can get a good densive center for him, then it would be a better balanced lineup. Bus losing Bosh for mothing is an absolute disaster.

[RapsGM]

I'm actually pretty happy about the way things are going. It's so refreshing to see athletic put back dunks, alley oops, leak outs, and second chance opportunities compared to last year. Is it me or does our defense look remarkably better with both Hedo and Calderon out? You can really see how Weems/Amir impact the game defensively. It seems whenever Weems is on the floor with an offensive lineup something good happens on both ends of the court, he's easily impressed me more than any other Raptor thus far, I can't stress that enough.

I agree. I really think that Denver lost out on Weems. He has been playing great and he sure has a lot of confidence. He has great chemistry with Demar and I think we should be trying to develop him along side of Demar. If they turn out well, maybe we have our future SG and SF.

[Hendrix]

What's really the definition of 5th option? Derozan doesn't really handle the ball much. but his shot rate is higher then Calderon, and the same as Turk.

[Too Late Crew]

I'm actually pretty happy about the way things are going. It's so refreshing to see athletic put back dunks, alley oops, leak outs, and second chance opportunities compared to last year. Is it me or does our defense look remarkably better with both Hedo and Calderon out? You can really see how Weems/Amir impact the game defensively. It seems whenever Weems is on the floor with an offensive lineup something good happens on both ends of the court, he's easily impressed me more than any other Raptor thus far, I can't stress that enough.

I agree. I really think that Denver lost out on Weems. He has been playing great and he sure has a lot of confidence. He has great chemistry with Demar and I think we should be trying to develop him along side of Demar. If they turn out well, maybe we have our future SG and SF.

This simply shows how wrong BC has been in his "plan" to build a Euroleague team in the NBA.

The more of his Eurolegue players you take off the floor (Jose, Hedo) and replace them with NBA caliber athletes and defenders the better the defense gets.

Problem is the NBA caliber athletes we have are BENCH PLAYERS. You can only play them for 15 MPG before their weakness becomes apparent. The future is not bright as long as we are commited to a core of Jose, Bargs and Hedo all playing 30mpg plus. At minimum one of those guys needs to be replaced.

[ATLTimekeeper]

If Bosh stays and DeRozan becomes a Josh Howard-level player, than I think the future is bright. If Bosh leaves and DeRozan becomes Nick Young-level, good God! It's really dependent on those 2.

The promising thing is that defensive aptitude seems to be related to experience, so the longer we play together the greater chance we'll have to improve on our greatest weakness.