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John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes)

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Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes) 

Post#41 » by Indeed » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:36 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:To me Calderon out and Battier in makes us a much stronger team than Calderon out and Martin in . We don't need Martin at all, as good as he is, offensively he'll just take shots away from everyone else (we'll have JO-era ball movement once again) and defensively he's as bad as Jose.

Now, a defensive stopper with A-plus leadership who can hit the 3 ball? To me that's almost a guarantee we make the 2nd round, keep Bosh, etc.

Anyways, I think both are pipe dreams, but you never know.


I agree with the Battier point.

But not totally agree on Martin.
I think Martin is a great off-ball player. He doesn't need the ball to be effective.
The reason we need him, is he can compliment with Hedo and Bosh. Of course, I don't want to give up DeRozan, and I think Jose has more value as a pass first, great shooting PG, although Martin has much more.

Anyway, at worst we stay with the current players, I still see we are in the playoffs.
And at best we made trades, we are still a first round exit team. I don't see we can dramatically improve our defense with Hedo, Jose, Jack and ... Not even Martin and DD improving can guarantee us to get pass to second round.
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Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes) 

Post#42 » by omikehunterts » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:45 pm

There was an NBA executive in Los Cabos over the holidays stating these names were being discussed, not sure how or if it works:

Toronto: Bynum, A. Randolph, Magette, Andre Miller


LA Lakers: Bosh


Golden State: Travis Outlaw, Jordan Farmer, Morrison, Antoine Wright


Portland: Calderon, Rasho


*With Cash and Picks in the equation



Additional Comments were:

Toronto needed talent preferably bigs if they couldn't resign Bosh

Golden State wants expiring contracts with the cost to get rid of Magette(has he not been playing well?) being Randolph.

Portland reshuffles the deck with Calderon for Miller and adds an expiring big to get them thru the year.
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Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes) 

Post#43 » by dTox » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:50 pm

No way I would include Demar in any trade involving Martin. If BC does then I will lose any hope I have in him, over the past few years he has done nothing but mess up our salary for players who are in their prime (hedo, Jose, Marion, JO), its about time he starts thinking about the future especially with a chance to lose bosh.
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Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes) 

Post#44 » by ontnut » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:59 pm

Mattd97 wrote:why does everyone want to move amir johnson? kid comes in, shows some talent, some heart, some energy, some potential... well we might as well trade him! this is like the leafs trading all their young guys every year for dmitri khristich, leetch, etc etc etc


Lol That Leech deal seemed pretty bad, but none of those guys we gave up incl. the two picks have played in the NHL I don't think...could be wrong though. This would be like the Nolan trade though...That was a ridiculous amount of talent to give up. Anyhow.

Johnson, while a nice piece on a mediocre team, has no place (maybe a 9th spot) on a contending team. While it'd be nice to keep Johnson for 1-2 million, that's not happening, he'll command 4+ this year. Johnson is great on his contract right now, but he looks significantly worse when you realize he's getting paid 4-5 million a year. That's almost the MLE, and I'm sure we can get someone better for that coin. Also with Reggie on the team, another 4-5 million dollar power forward off the bench is not what we need assuming Bosh, Bargs and Reggie are here next year and you have a guy like Rasho or an equivalent returning. You can see this year, with the front court we have, we don't go much deeper than 1 F/C player, do you want Amir to be this guy for the next 4 years? I don't know about that. I like Amir, I love his energy rebounding and hustle, but he's had what, 3-4 years to improve his game and it hasn't changed too much from when he entered the league, so while he's still young, I'm not sure if he's ever going to develop a reliable mid range jumper or better finishing ability. He's also not dominant enough defensively or rebounding wise to just overlook his offensive and basektball IQ deficiencies (moving pick x 100 so far?)

So if re-signing Amir is a questionable proposition at best, and he's 100% gone to another team if you don't resign him, then why not trade him? He's an asset and has value right now - so get something back for him, even if only to re-flip that piece for something else. You try not to waste assets when possible. I don't think people want to trade Amir just to trade Amir, but he's one of the guys on our team who are replaceable and have value at the same time - Jose, Belinelli and Rasho are the others. Derozan isn't easily replaceable, Wright has no value, Banks has no value, POB has no value, Turk has value but not at $10mill and is not easily replaceable, Forget about trading Bosh or Bargs, JJ is good enough to keep at the MLE, Weems is also ok at his min salary. That's why Amir's name is getting floated around so much - he's one of our tradeable assets, and unfortuantely, we're ought to be getting ready to make trades right now.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. 8 quality players are all you need to compete in this league (barring injury of course). The rest are roster fillers and potential laden rookies who won't see more than 10 minutes of the floor if that. These guys are interchangeable and can be replaced on a whim. Focus on solidifying your top 6, top 8 guys, and everything else will fall into place. Right now, we really only have Bargs, Bosh, JJ, Hedo and Calderon who would be top 8 guys, so if you can move Amir and Bellinelli in a 2 for 1 for someone who can fill one of those top 6 or 7 spots for a year or two, then you do the deal. Period.
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Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes) 

Post#45 » by ontnut » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:03 pm

omikehunterts wrote:There was an NBA executive in Los Cabos over the holidays stating these names were being discussed, not sure how or if it works:

Toronto: Bynum, A. Randolph, Magette, Andre Miller


LA Lakers: Bosh


Golden State: Travis Outlaw, Jordan Farmer, Morrison, Antoine Wright


Portland: Calderon, Rasho


*With Cash and Picks in the equation



Additional Comments were:

Toronto needed talent preferably bigs if they couldn't resign Bosh

Golden State wants expiring contracts with the cost to get rid of Magette(has he not been playing well?) being Randolph.

Portland reshuffles the deck with Calderon for Miller and adds an expiring big to get them thru the year.


Hm...seems like an overly ideal trade for the Raptors for this trade to actually hold any water.
Bosh for Bynum is being discussed with throw ins, now you add Jose and Rasho to the trade, but get back Anthony Randolph, Corey Maggette AND Andre Miller all three of whom would only be marginally traded one for one straight up for Calderon? I'll even grant you Bosh for Bynum and Randolph which is probably more of an ideal situation than will ever arise - but you still have Maggette and Miller for Calderon and Rasho man...that's not cool (well it would be...but it's just not happening, sorry) Look at the crap GS is taking back for Maggette and Randolph...yikes. Randolph>Outlaw atleast in GS's eyes, They really don't need another guard in Farmar when they have Ellis and Curry with Azubuike, Watson, Morrow....and Ammo+Wright? Cap space yeah, but...damn man...that's not a good trade for them haha.
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Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes) 

Post#46 » by oncl0ud9 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:10 pm

Bosh
Calderon
O'Bryant

for

Bynum
Morrison
Farmer
Fisher
Powell
Mbenga

Raptors would waive Fisher, MBenga right away

Jack / Banks / Farmer
Derozan / Belinelli
Hedo / Weems / Wright / Morrison
Bargnani / Amir / Evans
Bynum / Nesterovic / Powell
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Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes) 

Post#47 » by dillio » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:12 pm

omikehunterts wrote:There was an NBA executive in Los Cabos over the holidays stating these names were being discussed, not sure how or if it works:

Toronto: Bynum, A. Randolph, Magette, Andre Miller


LA Lakers: Bosh


Golden State: Travis Outlaw, Jordan Farmer, Morrison, Antoine Wright


Portland: Calderon, Rasho


*With Cash and Picks in the equation



Additional Comments were:

Toronto needed talent preferably bigs if they couldn't resign Bosh

Golden State wants expiring contracts with the cost to get rid of Magette(has he not been playing well?) being Randolph.

Portland reshuffles the deck with Calderon for Miller and adds an expiring big to get them thru the year.

Pretty good trade for us if we had to lose Bosh, but I seriously doubt BC trying to pull of a 4-team blockbuster after the ridiculous offseason we had. The team is still trying to gel and he would bring in 4 new rotation players while trading our starting PG and our superstar PF? Doesn't make sense for a mid-season move imo.
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Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes) 

Post#48 » by Y0DA » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:49 pm

Chris (Indianapolis, IN)
Simmons and Ford seem pretty high on a Bosh for Bynum deal ... what's your take?

John Hollinger
(12:06 PM)
I think it's not a bad endgame for the Raptors -- Bosh is the better player, obviously, but Bargnani-Bynum as a frontcourt is a lot more coherent than Bargnani-Bosh defensively. If they think Bosh is going, it's probably the best way to rebuild.


Darren (Ann Arbor)
With all this Bosh for Bynum talk, no one mentions a scenario where players and contracts match and make sense.

John Hollinger
(12:28 PM)
Bynum and Morrison for Bosh and O'Bryant. Several other combinations work as well. It's not any kind of impediment to a deal getting done.


Younger78 (Cali)
"Bynum and Morrison for Bosh and O'Bryant" doesn't seem to work. Bynum is a BYC player. Is there another combo?

John Hollinger
(12:34 PM)
This is what I get for no trying it on the trade machine first. Gotta put Sasha and Ammo in it and then take back players like O'Bryant and Wright in it using L.A.'s trade exceptions (Mihm, Radmanovic). As I said, those players are not obstacles to a deal getting done.



I like that trade for the Raptors. It would give the team a chance to build a contender with a roster that isn't fundamentally flawed.
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Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes) 

Post#49 » by onions17 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:50 am

Martin would be great fit on this team.. that is all.
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Clearly defense is the difference between winning and losing for this team.
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Re: John Hollinger chat (Raptors notes) 

Post#50 » by CrymeTime » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:42 am

What can we get from Portland if they are interested in Rasho.

Rasho(expire), Jose(partially paid), O'bryant(expire), Wright(expire)
for
Outlaw(injuried/expire), Miller, Mills(sort of injuried), Cunningham

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