2023 Trade Rumors

Moderators: FJS, Inigo Montoya, DelaneyRudd

User avatar
Inigo Montoya
Forum Mod - Jazz
Forum Mod - Jazz
Posts: 14,812
And1: 6,553
Joined: May 31, 2012

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#61 » by Inigo Montoya » Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:40 pm

pickIBL wrote:Ainge looks at first rounders like markers from the john wick franchise.

The Jazz currently hold the #13, #14 and #27 picks in this draft. Which players should the Jazz target in this coming draft?
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
Image
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
zero24gravity
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,585
And1: 746
Joined: Jan 08, 2017
 

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#62 » by zero24gravity » Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:30 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
pickIBL wrote:Ainge looks at first rounders like markers from the john wick franchise.

The Jazz currently hold the #13, #14 and #27 picks in this draft. Which players should the Jazz target in this coming draft?


Easier said than done, but if they don't have a higher pick than those, then I hope they use the picks to move up. Drafting one potential All Star, is better than adding 2-3 maybe-starters, in the mid-to-late part of the 1st round. (I know that nothing is guaranteed, but the odds increase of getting an All Star the higher teams draft, obviously.)
SoCalJazzFan
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,987
And1: 861
Joined: Jul 29, 2009

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#63 » by SoCalJazzFan » Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:04 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:Hachimura went for Nunn and three 2nd round picks. Rumor was that the Wiz wanted a FRP, but settled for the three 2nds.

Not that I was a proponent of acquiring Hachimura, but the Jazz were briefly involved in rumors connected to him and could have easily offered Gay and the worst of BKN/PHI pick (will be in the mid to late 20s) and got him. Anything to read from the tea leaves of the Jazz not doing this deal?

He's going to be a RFA at the end of the season, so I guess the Jazz didn't want to give up assets now for someone who will hit the market in less than half a season and have a bidding war over him and/or give a large contract. I don't have a problem with that. He's not bad but isn't a needle-mover either. And I also don't know why the Lakers went for him. Sure, they could use him, but he's not a difference maker and he doesn't solve their main problem of lack of outside shooting.

I agree on him not being a needle mover and if the Jazz are going to become buyers, they should only do so for a needle mover, IMO.
SoCalJazzFan
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,987
And1: 861
Joined: Jul 29, 2009

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#64 » by SoCalJazzFan » Tue Jan 24, 2023 6:08 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
pickIBL wrote:Ainge looks at first rounders like markers from the john wick franchise.

The Jazz currently hold the #13, #14 and #27 picks in this draft. Which players should the Jazz target in this coming draft?

While it is usually best player available, I think the draft can actually be broken down into tiers allowing teams to draft for need within a tier. I believe that replacing Conley is the most important need moving forward and Cason Wallace or Anthony Black could be great options in the #10-#15 range (as presently mocked). I agree with Zero that if it takes combining two of the picks to move up and get your player the Jazz should do it.
SoCalJazzFan
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,987
And1: 861
Joined: Jul 29, 2009

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#65 » by SoCalJazzFan » Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:13 pm

There is a rumor that the Raptors have been offered 3 FRPs for OG. There has also been a lot of speculation about what the Raptors are going to do moving forward as they are only 21-27 right now and VanFleet and Trent Jr. are up for contract extensions next year and they will probably be a luxury team even if they only keep and extend VanFleet. Instead, now could be the time for them to blow it up and cash in and rebuild.

What if the Jazz were to throw a curve ball and instead of being sellers become a big time buyer? Could be something along the lines of:

Jazz
out- Beasely, Olynyk, Gay, Dok (or another cheap contract), 3 FRPs
in- OG, John Collins, Kaminsky

Hawks
out- John Collins, Kaminsky (could be a pick going to UTA too)
in- LaVert, Olynyk

Cavs
out- LaVert
in- Beasely

Raptors
out- OG
in- Gay, Dok/salary filler, 3 FRPs

Works on Trade Machine- http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2rx4fkrp

Jazz Lineups:
Conley, OG, Markk, Collins, Kessler
Sexton, JC, THT/Ochai, Vando, Kaminsky

Is this a contending team? I think it could be as there is off/def balance and several high level players. Also, the Jazz could draft the PGOTF this summer and afford these players as no one is making over $25M until the new TV contract kicks in. Jazz would still have at least (Edit: 9 10 FRPs over the next 6 7 drafts.)
SoCalJazzFan
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,987
And1: 861
Joined: Jul 29, 2009

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#66 » by SoCalJazzFan » Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:38 pm

If the Jazz just traded for OG (3 picks and combination of Gay and one or two other smaller contracts of end of bench players), it could make for a very interesting team, particularly this year with the Western Conference lacking a true alpha team.

How far could Conley, JC, OG, Markk and Kessler (with bench of Sexton, Beasely, THT/Ochai, Vando and Olynyk) go in the playoffs?
User avatar
Inigo Montoya
Forum Mod - Jazz
Forum Mod - Jazz
Posts: 14,812
And1: 6,553
Joined: May 31, 2012

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#67 » by Inigo Montoya » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:51 am

There is no point in having both Collins and OG on the same team when we already have Markkanen. OG is not a 2 guard. He fits really well at the 3. It's either OG or Collins, not both. I'd take OG, I think he's a very good fit who provides exactly what the Jazz needs while not sacrificing in any other aspect of the game, unlike Collins' awkward fit.

Besides, there is no point in having both of them because it takes a lot of cap space that we'll need to spend on other positions. We have an old PG (Conley) who has one year left in him, maybe, and a SG (Clarkson) who's having the best season of his career at the age of 30, and is about to opt out and become a UFA. Those are the places we need to focus on.
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
Image
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
SoCalJazzFan
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,987
And1: 861
Joined: Jul 29, 2009

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#68 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:02 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:There is no point in having both Collins and OG on the same team when we already have Markkanen. OG is not a 2 guard. He fits really well at the 3. It's either OG or Collins, not both. I'd take OG, I think he's a very good fit who provides exactly what the Jazz needs while not sacrificing in any other aspect of the game, unlike Collins' awkward fit.

Besides, there is no point in having both of them because it takes a lot of cap space that we'll need to spend on other positions. We have an old PG (Conley) who has one year left in him, maybe, and a SG (Clarkson) who's having the best season of his career at the age of 30, and is about to opt out and become a UFA. Those are the places we need to focus on.

I would agree that if both Collins and OG were to be available, OG probably makes the most sense even if he costs more. They are the only two needle movers that I have seen rumored that would make any sense for the Jazz if they decided to become buyers. Being a seller is still an option, but not as desireable as earlier in the season.

Indications are that the Jazz will extend Clarkson.

If the Jazz were to acquire OG and keep Clarkson, the last remaining hole would be PG. Sexton is probably better suited as a 6th man type. I believe that the Jazz will have to draft their PGOTF, and the odds of drafting Scoot Henderson or Amen Thompson are increasingly miniscule by the week as the Jazz continue to outperform expectations. That leaves guys like Wallace and Black as considerations, who fortunately are both good on-ball defenders with decent size.
AingesBurner
RealGM
Posts: 13,846
And1: 3,523
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
   

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#69 » by AingesBurner » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:25 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:There is no point in having both Collins and OG on the same team when we already have Markkanen. OG is not a 2 guard. He fits really well at the 3. It's either OG or Collins, not both. I'd take OG, I think he's a very good fit who provides exactly what the Jazz needs while not sacrificing in any other aspect of the game, unlike Collins' awkward fit.

Besides, there is no point in having both of them because it takes a lot of cap space that we'll need to spend on other positions. We have an old PG (Conley) who has one year left in him, maybe, and a SG (Clarkson) who's having the best season of his career at the age of 30, and is about to opt out and become a UFA. Those are the places we need to focus on.

I would agree that if both Collins and OG were to be available, OG probably makes the most sense even if he costs more. They are the only two needle movers that I have seen rumored that would make any sense for the Jazz if they decided to become buyers. Being a seller is still an option, but not as desireable as earlier in the season.

Indications are that the Jazz will extend Clarkson.

If the Jazz were to acquire OG and keep Clarkson, the last remaining hole would be PG. Sexton is probably better suited as a 6th man type. I believe that the Jazz will have to draft their PGOTF, and the odds of drafting Scoot Henderson or Amen Thompson are increasingly miniscule by the week as the Jazz continue to outperform expectations. That leaves guys like Wallace and Black as considerations, who fortunately are both good on-ball defenders with decent size.


Or Trae Young becomes available… The two teams with the most assets are Utah and OKC, and OKC doesn’t need a PG it will likely draft one with their higher pick. I don’t see Utah falling in love with the draft; I see our team as Trae, Markannen, and Walker with a chance at OG or Jaylen Brown. So Trae-Ochai-OG/Brown-Markannen-Kessler, that’s a helluva team.
Ingles is cooked.
zero24gravity
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,585
And1: 746
Joined: Jan 08, 2017
 

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#70 » by zero24gravity » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:28 pm

AingesBurner wrote:Or Trae Young becomes available… The two teams with the most assets are Utah and OKC, and OKC doesn’t need a PG it will likely draft one with their higher pick. I don’t see Utah falling in love with the draft; I see our team as Trae, Markannen, and Walker with a chance at OG or Jaylen Brown. So Trae-Ochai-OG/Brown-Markannen-Kessler, that’s a helluva team.


Oh no, please don't try to make me cheer for Trae Young. :wink:
AingesBurner
RealGM
Posts: 13,846
And1: 3,523
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
   

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#71 » by AingesBurner » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:33 pm

zero24gravity wrote:
AingesBurner wrote:Or Trae Young becomes available… The two teams with the most assets are Utah and OKC, and OKC doesn’t need a PG it will likely draft one with their higher pick. I don’t see Utah falling in love with the draft; I see our team as Trae, Markannen, and Walker with a chance at OG or Jaylen Brown. So Trae-Ochai-OG/Brown-Markannen-Kessler, that’s a helluva team.


Oh no, please don't try to make me cheer for Trae Young. :wink:


I know, I know hahaha but Tony Jones has said that Utah will not make all of those picks, it’s a 2-3 year rebuild… Trae Young gets that rebuild going quickly, and the dude is from a town the size of Logan or smaller, which I imagine Salt Lake would not be too bad. He also is probably one of the best pure point guards in the league, so unless Doncic demands a trade in the off-season (please God!) then Trae is our best option at point.
Ingles is cooked.
SoCalJazzFan
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,987
And1: 861
Joined: Jul 29, 2009

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#72 » by SoCalJazzFan » Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:00 pm

AingesBurner wrote: but Tony Jones has said that Utah will not make all of those picks, it’s a 2-3 year rebuild…

If it is only going to be a 2-3 year rebuild, the Jazz absolutely have to hit a home run with at least one player in this draft (if they don't trade for a needle mover) as they have no picks in 2024 and Markk's contract is up in 2025.
AingesBurner
RealGM
Posts: 13,846
And1: 3,523
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
   

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#73 » by AingesBurner » Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:26 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
AingesBurner wrote: but Tony Jones has said that Utah will not make all of those picks, it’s a 2-3 year rebuild…

If it is only going to be a 2-3 year rebuild, the Jazz absolutely have to hit a home run with at least one player in this draft (if they don't trade for a needle mover) as they have no picks in 2024 and Markk's contract is up in 2025.


That’s why I see them trading for a player like Young. I wouldn’t rely on hitting in the draft…
Ingles is cooked.
pickIBL
Head Coach
Posts: 6,444
And1: 939
Joined: Aug 12, 2008

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#74 » by pickIBL » Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:07 am

Inigo Montoya wrote:
pickIBL wrote:Ainge looks at first rounders like markers from the john wick franchise.

The Jazz currently hold the #13, #14 and #27 picks in this draft. Which players should the Jazz target in this coming draft?

I'm thinking on that. But i have discovered the secret for how the jazz can best tank going forward.
I like my prospects the same way I like my women... foreign- pickIBL
pickIBL
Head Coach
Posts: 6,444
And1: 939
Joined: Aug 12, 2008

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#75 » by pickIBL » Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:55 am

Inigo Montoya wrote:
pickIBL wrote:Ainge looks at first rounders like markers from the john wick franchise.

The Jazz currently hold the #13, #14 and #27 picks in this draft. Which players should the Jazz target in this coming draft?

Ok let's gamble.

Darlan at 13.
Leonard Miller at 14
Nnaji at 27.
I like my prospects the same way I like my women... foreign- pickIBL
User avatar
Wolverine
Rookie
Posts: 1,204
And1: 93
Joined: Jul 27, 2002

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#76 » by Wolverine » Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:13 pm

After Kyrie & Dame have torched us makes me think we need Thybulle or another premier wing defender
sunevisions
Pro Prospect
Posts: 810
And1: 79
Joined: Jan 08, 2004
Location: HK
Contact:

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#77 » by sunevisions » Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:06 am

We probably can’t get another FRP before the deadline.

And maybe we only have some minor trade.
SoCalJazzFan
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,987
And1: 861
Joined: Jul 29, 2009

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#78 » by SoCalJazzFan » Sun Jan 29, 2023 6:58 am

There are rumors the Pelicans want to trade for John Collins. Hard to see how they do it as both ATL and the Pels are looking for win now moves. But, the Jazz could facilitate the trade.

Jazz
Out- Beasely and Olynyk
In- Dyson Daniels, Graham, Hernangomez, Kaminsky, picks

Hawks
Out- Collins, Kaminsky, perhaps a 1st or 2nd pick
In- LaVert and Olynyk

Cavs
Out- LeVert, maybe 2nd pick
In- Beasely

Pelicans
Out- Daniels, Graham, Hernangomez, maybe 2nd pick
In- John Collins

Dyson Daniels is a 19 yr old, 6’8” PG (8th pick last draft) with some holes in his game at the moment but has potential. He is a good passer, rim runner and rebounder with defensive potential but a bad shooter. David Locke has mentioned a few times recently that he sees the NBA going to bigger playmakers and that the days of small PGs is over. He recently name dropped Dyson Daniels in passing.
Jammer
General Manager
Posts: 8,015
And1: 2,238
Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Contact:
 

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#79 » by Jammer » Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:44 pm

1. Trae Young is a polarizing teammate who doesn't defend well. Not even his teammates like his style.

2. As to the rumored exchange of John Collins for Jarred Vanderbilt + Beasley (where Ainge is reportedly asking for Two 1rsts as draft compensation since he believes Collins is a good player but not worth $78.5 Million over the next 3 years), I think that deal would be fair if Atlanta kicked in two seconds instead of a 1rst, especially if the seconds were in void years like 2024 and 2027 or 2028.

So, I think that John Collins + OKC’s 2024 2nd Round Pick+ Atlanta’s 2028 Second Round Pick for Vanderbilt + Beasley is Fair.

3. As to the relative value of draft picks, Roland Beech did a study many years ago where he looked at data from 1998-2008, and when averaging results over 10 years the relative value of picks was something like:

1
2-5

6-10

11-14

15-30

31-34

35-49
50-57
58-60
User avatar
Inigo Montoya
Forum Mod - Jazz
Forum Mod - Jazz
Posts: 14,812
And1: 6,553
Joined: May 31, 2012

Re: 2023 Trade Rumors 

Post#80 » by Inigo Montoya » Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:42 pm

Where does Collins fit in the Pelicans roster when everyone are healthy? He's not going to play over Ingram at the 3 and not over Zion at the 4. And I can't see the Pelicans relegate Valanciunas to the bench and move Zion to play center so he could play with Collins and Ingram. Are they going to pay Collins 25M per year to come off the bench? Unlikely.

This rumor makes no sense for the Pelicans. I may be wrong, but it looks like the Hawks are trying to generate fake interest to drive up the price.
Draft Nate Wolters - FAILED
Keep Nate Wolters - FAILED
Image
KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.

Return to Utah Jazz