Rank Utah Players in terms of Importance

[Duiz]

I am dissapointed how much people undervalue AK.. According to 82games.com, AK is just as valuable as Williams.

in 72 games, Williams has accumulated +343 net points

in 64 games, Kirilenko has amassed +338 net points

erm... better than Williams?

Roland Ratings show also..

1. Andrei Kirilenko - +4.8
2. Deron Williams - +4.5
3. Carlos Boozer - +4.4
4. Ronnie Brewer - +2.0
5. Kyle Korver - +1.2

I quote, "The main components of the 'Roland Ratings' are a production measure (a variant of John Hollinger's PER rating) for a player's own stats versus the counterpart player on the other team while he is on the court, as well as a simple on court/off court plus minus."

I know we give Kirilenko a big time bad rep, but he really does his job, and WE NEED him if we want to compete against the big time teams, not pussies like the Nuggets and Suns.

The best tandem in Utah is also Kirilenko/Boozer who have the highest net points total with +240

I think we undervalue indeed how important AK is, how he cleans so much the game, great passes.

Even though he has been performing terribly, he still keeps his man to much lower production.

[edfmx86]

i dont think the jazz would be as good as they are without AK

for me its...

1. Deron
2. AK
3. Boozer
4. Okur
5. Millsap
6. Brewer
7. Price
8. Korver
9. the rest

[Jig-Saw Puzzle]

1) Deron
2) Memo
3) AK
4) Boozer
5) Korver
6) Harpring
7) Millsap
Brewer
9) Price

[troy]

i dont think the jazz would be as good as they are without AK

I am dissapointed how much people undervalue AK.. According to 82games.com, AK is just as valuable as Williams.

I disagree with you. I know that Kirilenko has a great "Roland Ratings" but i've watched every Jazz games since Kyle Korver arrived (and 60-70% before that) and i'm not impressed by AK's impact on the floor.
Of course it's a positive impact , but it is not a decisive impact . He doesn't change our whole team's outlook when he steps on the floor.

What does bring AK to this team ? A little bit of this , a little bit of that , etc... nice passer , above average defender (far from his former elite status though , ask Richard Jefferson) , decent rebounder , above average three point shooter lately (not on Okur or Korver's level ) , etc..

He can do a little bit of everything but he doesn't change our team gameplan or the opponent's gameplan when he is on the floor.
At the beginning of the game , you don't expect anything in particular from AK. You just expect that he does "a little bit of everything". To put it shortly "if he add somethings to the addition , great, if he doesn't well ...too bad" .

If Boozer has a bad game , we lose our best interior option.
If Memo has a bad game , we lose our spacing.
If Korver has a bad game , we lose even more spacing (in three of our last 4 losses , he scored zero points , i'm not surprised we lost those games)
If Deron has a bad game , forget about it.
If Millsap has a bad game , our second unit loses its edge

Kirilenko is closer to Brewer. If he has a bad game we won't say it's his fault we lost the game , because we don't expect anything in particular fro m him. Like Brewer , if he has a good game (like the end of the game vs Michael Redd) it's a bonus.

if you're not sure of that you just have to look at our team in the money time. you don't expect Kirilenko to win the game for us on a consistent basis , unlike Deron , Boozer , Okur and even Korver who has already made a lot of clutch shots in his young Jazz tenure.


All that explains why we have won the past 4 games Kirilenko has missed this year .
A win on Phoenix's court (their last loss before their recent defeat at Detroit) and three of our biggest wins of the season (+27 vs the Nuggets , +29 vs the wolves , +22 vs the Hornets) .

And more than anything if Kirilenko was really the second or third most important player on this team , when you know that we went to the WCF with him playing the worst ball of his career , we should be the clear cut favorite with him back at a decent level don't you think ?
We will probably not have the same success this year , while he is playing considerably better , that IMO is a proof that he is not more than a role player for this team.

Roland ratings is nice , but it's just number.

[Nate505]

I am dissapointed how much people undervalue AK.. According to 82games.com, AK is just as valuable as Williams.

According to my eyes that statement is beyond laughable.

[TaylorJ]

It's intersting to read the polarized opinions on AK. Everybody's argument for having him high was if he plays well we win. The problem with that in my mind is what I said before, consistency. We have won far more games with Kirilenko having a sub-par game than we have lost. Bottom line he is a great talent but he is not the difference maker we think he is. It's much easier for the Jazz to win if AK has a bad game than if Deron, Booze, or Memo are off. I still think he is a great player, I just don't think we win or lose based on him.

[Duiz]

Once again, Kirilenko does his job, he outwork his counterpart on the floor.

Now, people don't get it, just definitely don't get it. I am not saying that Kirilenko is the guy you would build a franchise around. He isn't a Deron Williams or Carlos Boozer, much less a Tim Duncan or Kobe Bryant. What he brings to the Utah Jazz is something that might be as equally as important, which his role as trimtab to our team, kind of like Manu Ginobli to the Spurs, Lamar Odom to the Lakers or Scottie Pippen to the Bulls. He isn't the best player on the team, but their superb performance is what makes a good team be a great team.

Therefore, I am not saying that Kirilenko is a pillar to built a franchise around (Although when he was, the Jazz had a +.500 season) like Deron or Boozer, but he is the guy that if in the right gear, he can make or break a championship run. What Manu does in offense, Kirielnko does in defense and distribution.

http://www.nba.com/games/20071130/LALUTA/boxscore.html (no boozer, no okur, no problem)

http://www.nba.com/games/20080128/SASUTA/boxscore.html

http://www.nba.com/games/20080314/UTABOS/boxscore.html (Check out Pierce's performance)

[troy]

Duiz , first of all i don't think the comparisons with Pippen and Ginobili are justified.
Sure those players were not the top players on their teams but only because they were playing with two top 10 player of all time (Jordan for Pippen , Duncan for Ginobili).
Actually Pippen took his team to the ECF when Jordan was absent.
But more than anything you just have to look at their respective skills :

- Pippen was a 20pts scorer in his prime. AK's best average is 16.5 (!!). Pippen was also a better point forward . Defensively Pippen was a freak in his prime. Kirilenko when he was an elite defender wasn't close to reach Pippen's efficiency defensively. He was a way better man to man defender , and a deadly weapon when it comes to passing lanes. Bottom line , Pippen is a HALL OF FAMER . his impact was clearly visible on both end of the floor in EVERY freakin game he played during his prime , unlike AK who can be a non factor in a lot of games nowadays (even if it's not in every games like it was last year).

- Ginobili :Manu is one of the most underrated players in the league right now. Complete offensive player (good passer , great at finishing and getting to the line , great three point shoot) , he is also very good defensively. Call him a flopper if you want , the fact is this guy can annoy you in every possible way defensively.
More than anything this guy is one of the best competitor in basketball today. Top 5 without a doubt. He is the guy that's get the ball in the money time for the Spurs , it's not Duncan (anymore) , it's not Parker , it's Gino that wins the game down the line for the Spurs the past several years.
Maybe Parker was the MVP of the last finals , but it was Gino who closed the games with his clutch play and great free throw shooting.
The guy is just a winner. You will never see him having an horrible season like AK last year. he gives 101% EVERY TIME he is on the floor.
you may think he can't be a player you can build around , but if the current version of Tmac is considered like an elite player , Ginobili is too , because he is a way better player at this point.

I love Andrei Kirilenko . I think that if he was used as a PF , he could get back to an all star level (barring injuries) , but even then he wouldn't be a player like Pippen or Ginobili . A player from who you expect every night that he is decisive (20pts) offensively and decisive defensively (at least for Pippen). At his best Kirilenko was and would have been a DPOY candidate and a decent offensive player. Not a go to guy like Pip or Ginobili.



SECOND OF ALL , "Once again , Kirilenko does his job , he outwork his counterpart on the floor" .
We have not been watching the same games. Don't be fooled by the stats you see on 82games.com , trust what you see with your own eyes.
Look at AK's ten last games , and tell me he outworked his counterpart regularly.

vs G.Wallace (Bobcats) : it was of AK's best game lately (16pts , 3blks , 3 ast) , still Wallace managed to score 21pts on 54% shooting with three wide open three point shots.
Anyway it's not a good game to judge because Ak played a lot of minutes at the 4 in the fourt quarter (his best quarter).
No winner.

vs K.Durant (Sonics) : Ak was supposed to be Durant's nightmare. But Durant scored 23pts on 56% shooting well above his average. Durant was one of the main reason (with Watson) why the Sonics were surprisingly leading at the half. Kirilenko ? He was completely horrible throughout the game with only 7pts and a terrible shooting display (1/7)
Winner : Durant easily.

vs L.Odom (Lakers) : Odom crapped all over Kirilenko. He got 21pts (64% shooting) , 12rbds and 6 assists with no turnovers. Are you kidding me !!?
Kirilenko got 15pts and 4rbds.
Winner : Odom , EASILY !

vs J.Moon (Toronto) : AK played way more than Moon , but had a bad game shooting wise , 2 out of 7. Moon was not spectacular either.
Winner : none , both played bad.

vs R.Jefferson (Nets) : No comment , it was horrible. Jefferson got 27pts and the game winner with a complete humiliation of Kirilenko (2pts , 1/4 shooting in 21 minutes).
Winner : Jefferson EASILY !

vs Pierce (Celtics) : Pierce had a terrible game (only 8pts , 1/7 shooting , 5 turnovers) but Harpring played as much as AK during that game. So we can't really say Kirilenko is the reason why Pierce was that bad. Still he is the winner here.
Winner : Kirilenko.

vs Villanueva (Bucks) : yes , Kirilenko got the decisive block on Redd , still he got owned all game long by Charlie V : 26pts , 4 offensive rebounds , 58% shooting. Though , AK was more than decent offensively (2/2 on three pointers , 6 assists , 0 to) .
Winner : Villanueva

vs Deng (Bulls) : Both players played an average game.
Winner : none

vs Gay (Memphis) : Gay played a real bad game. Kirilenko clearly was the better one that night.
Winner : Kirilenko easily.

vs Stojakovic (Hornets) : 20pts on 50% for Stojakovic. Nuff said
Winner : Stojakovic


In his last ten games , Ak got the best of his opponent only TWICE. Twice out of 10. And let's not talk about the humiliation he got against Durant , Odom and more than anybody Jefferson. A game after which Sloan said he needed a wing to step up defensively.

Clearly if you think AK outplays his opponent most of the time you're not watching the games. 82games' stats are nice and all , but they're not always accurate. AK outplaying his opponent is far from the truth.
His elite defense is gone and offensively he is just a role player , taking only wide open three pointers.
So please do not tell me this is one of the most important on these team , and do not compare him to proven winners like Ginobili and Pippen.

[carrottop12]

Deron - Duh

Boozer - When he plays well the Jazz are usually in the games

Okur - When he doesn't show up for games the Jazz really struggle.

Brewer - With out Brewer the Jazz would really struggle, his defense is underrated as his is stellar consistency. He always gives the Jazz a quick 6-8 points in the first quarter to set the pace and get the crowd into it.

Korver/Millsap/Harpring - Can't really say any of these guys are more important then one another, any time either of these three come off the bench and give the Jazz 10+ points the Jazz are in great position to win.

AK - I love AK, but there are a lot of games where he is a non-factor and it doesn't matter, then there are games when he plays well and the Jazz still lose. When his defense is on the Jazz are a great team, but it seems like his defense is rarely where it should be considering his role on this team.

Ronnie Price - Like AK, when he plays his game he is a huge asset. He brings a ton of energy and is a very good defender, the problem is he is a little bit inconsistent, and if he isn't playing well he can just play less minutes in favor of Deron.

CJ Miles - He is great to replace injured players in the line up, but most games he doesn't see the floor and it really doesn't matter.

Jarron Collins - I have actually started to miss his toughness on the floor, but the Jazz seem to be doing fine with out him.

Jason Hart - Worst player on the Jazz by quite a large margin.