Chris Paul to Jazz why not?

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

Why in the world would NO ever give up Paul? Did the Jazz ever trade Stockton? Did the Lakers trade Kobe? Did the Nuggets trade Melo? Did the Bulls trade Jordan? Are the Cavs going to trade LeBron? No, never will happen; and if it does then the NO front office should be shot. You would have to be clinically insane to trade CP3. That would be worse than trading Marion for Shaq.

CP3 > DWill - to's
DWill > CP3 - scoring (Overall - midrange, 3-point, free throws, finishing at the rim, etc.)
DWill > CP3 - size
DWill > CP3 - ability to create own shot (one v. one)
CP3 = DWill - basketball IQ
CP3 = DWill - defense
CP3 = DWill - rebounding
CP3 = DWill - passing/playing making ability
(you could argue CP3 would win this because of his lower TO's)
DWill > CP3 - clutch situations
DWill > CP3 - fit for Utah Jazz/Sloan system
CP3 = Dwill - athleticism (DWill would have easily won this if not for his ankle injury)
CP3 > DWill - speed
CP3 = DWill - durability (thus far)
DWill > CP3 - success
CP3 = DWill - leadership
CP3 = DWill - consistency

So I have CP3 beating out DWill twice in the categories I came up with. Even if you give CP3 leadership, rebounding, defense and passing/playmaking the two are sill extremely close in ability.

[StocktonShorts]

Did you buy your Jazz gogglzz at Fanzz?

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

Oh yes I must be a homer....like I always am right?

Ok then, prove me wrong.

[StocktonShorts]

Any modern statistical measurement used in the NBA puts Paul in a class above DWill.

Paul's PER in 2007-2008 was 28.3; in 2008-2009 it was 30.0; so far this year it's 32.8.
Deron's PER numbers for the same years: 20.8; 21.8; 19.4

Win-shares and adjusted plus-minus tell a similar story.

And if you don't like the numbers, just look at how people in and around the NBA view them:

Paul: Rookie of the year; 2x All-Star; All-NBA first team 2008; All-NBA second team 2009; All-defensive second team 2008; all-defensive first team 2009; second in MVP voting in 2008; fifth in MVP voting in 2009.

D-Will: All-NBA 2nd team (2008);

----------------

No one wants to admit the Jazz screwed up, least of all the Jazz organization itself, but it seems pretty clear to me they could've drafted a future Hall of Famer and went with the other guy instead.

But hey, at least we're not Atlanta who passed on both CP3 and DWill.

EDIT: It's a little harsh to say the Jazz screwed up, since there were few people at the time who really second-guessed picking Williams over Paul. I guess I should say that few in the Jazz fan base or organization seem willing to acknowledge that Paul is the better player; and they go to great lengths to avoid saying that, using such euphemisms as "Deron's a better fit" or "he's good in this system." It kind of reminds me of the John Stockton/Magic Johnson debates -- which were only ever debates inside Jazzdom...

[OC Jazzfan]

I guess I should say that few in the Jazz fan base or organization seem willing to acknowledge that Paul is the better player; and they go to great lengths to avoid saying that, using such euphemisms as "Deron's a better fit" or "he's good in this system." It kind of reminds me of the John Stockton/Magic Johnson debates -- which were only ever debates inside Jazzdom...

The difference of course being that the Jazz didn't have the opportunity to draft Magic.

I don't really see why this is such a big deal for some folks. It's not like the Jazz passed on Michael Jordan to take Sam Bowie. Deron is an amazing player, but Chris Paul has turned out to be a bit better. Over their careers so far CP3 averages more points, shoots a better percentage, shoots a better free throw percentage, averages more assists, averages fewer turnovers and averages more steals. And since Deron has turned into much more of a scorer, I don't see why he should be considered any better a fit for the Jazz system than Paul would be.

Having said all that, I'm perfectly content with D-Will. I think he's a great player and I love watching him play (except when he's sloppy with the ball). Believing Paul is better doesn't make one a D-Will hater.

[Dr Manhattan]

Why do some of you guys think Deron is a better shooter/scorer than Paul? That couldn't be further from the truth. Paul scores at a greater volume and consistency. Look at the numbers. It's not close.

[Batu7]

Why do some of you guys think Deron is a better shooter/scorer than Paul? That couldn't be further from the truth. Paul scores at a greater volume and consistency. Look at the numbers. It's not close.

I just looked at Chris Paul's hotspots. He's been shooting at a great percentage, especially from three. This wasn't the case last year.

[erudite23]

The only place that CP is really better than Deron at from the floor is the in-between shots, ones not right at the hoop, but still inside the paint. CP3 has a devastating floater and pull up jumper in that area that places him alongside Pau Gasol, Yao Ming and Dirk Nowitzki in his finishing. No other small is close. Deron is his equal or better in every other hotspot on the floor, including shots right at the hoop (both volume and efficiency) and while CP beat Deron in 3pt accuracy last season, we would have to believe that that was an aberration based on the fact that a) Deron was hurt for much of the season and his injury was largely to blame for his career worst 3-pt mark, b) Deron's mechanics are much more suited to having a successful jumper and c) Deron's 3 point shooting has beaten Paul's in every season since the 03-04 college season prior to last year.

So Deron is clearly the better shooter. However, Paul's devastating floater makes him a slightly more efficient scorer at this time. What I don't know is how Deron could be said to be the better scorer, given the fact that Paul has outscored him every year of their careers. Not sure on that.



And while Paul is clearly a small notch better than Deron, they are still pretty close. Advanced metrics and other gobbledeeguck like that are largely to blame for the believed gulf between the two. Its peripheral things that separate the two. Deron scores nearly as much, with (over the last 3 full years) just as good or better efficiency, assists about the same and turns the ball over just a bit more. But other crap, like pace factors and usage per possession etc favor Paul so much that it tilts the scales far more than they should be.

I would not trade one for the other, though, because I do not want to risk Paul being unable to play in our system.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

You have something wrong with your head if you think taking D-Will over CP3 was a screw up, I would bet good money that if the Jazz had the chance to do it all over again they still would have taken D-Will ahead of CP3.

CP3 has the most success against similar sized pg's/pg's that allow him to cheat on D; just watch him against D-Will. CP3 is great but I have watched him plenty to know that D-Will is just as good as he is. CP3 gets the attention/fame/praise/accolades because he exploded into the NBA his rookie year and snatched all the attention away from D-WIll. His team has done nothing worthy of mention in the playoffs and they are only getting worse.

[jazzed77]

how do you think their career stats would compare if the JAzz had drafted paul instead of deron? I have a feeling that paul to would have had to sit and watch Mcleod and Palacio get his minutes....

[StocktonShorts]

I think by this point Paul would have the same stats in Utah as he has had in New Orleans.

To me it's so obvious what's happening here: Jazz fans and the Jazz FO know they could've had a future HOF/MVP-candidate player in Paul and there's regret there buried deep beneath several layers of denial. But of course no one in the organization (and I include Bolerjack in that group) wants to admit that they should've picked Paul because that would mean disrespecting Deron. So you get this indoctrination, some of it by the team-run media and some of it done voluntarily, that Deron is just as good as CP3 and that he's a better fit for the Jazz, because that's psychologically the best way to deal with the fact that the team made a poor decision.

And if you're right that the Jazz would still take D-Will ahead of CP3 then this organization is dumber than I think they are.

[Bradford]

I think by this point Paul would have the same stats in Utah as he has had in New Orleans.

To me it's so obvious what's happening here: Jazz fans and the Jazz FO know they could've had a future HOF/MVP-candidate player in Paul and there's regret there buried deep beneath several layers of denial. But of course no one in the organization (and I include Bolerjack in that group) wants to admit that they should've picked Paul because that would mean disrespecting Deron. So you get this indoctrination, some of it by the team-run media and some of it done voluntarily, that Deron is just as good as CP3 and that he's a better fit for the Jazz, because that's psychologically the best way to deal with the fact that the team made a poor decision.

And if you're right that the Jazz would still take D-Will ahead of CP3 then this organization is dumber than I think they are.

Do you watch the NBA?

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

No, what is going on is that a Jazz fan is being the devils advocate for the purpose of trying to sound smarter than everyone else.

Chris Paul is far from HoF material; we can talk about CP3 going to the HoF when he at least gets to the conference finals. Paul is a great player no doubt but you are buying into the media hype that surrounds him way too much. List the players in the league right now who have a solid chance of going to the HoF and compare their success with the success of CP3. CP3 is comparable to KG or Melo, no real success early in his career but an awesome talent none the less. He may end up winning some championships later down the road which will lock him into a HoF spot; but as of right now you can't argue that CP3 is a future HoF player when he has yet to sniff at championship success and is only going down hill from the looks of things. CP3 has the numbers but not the playoff/championship success.

You are accusing Jazz fans of the same exact things you are doing with CP3; buying into media portrayed images/hype. There is no need for the Jazz organization to regret their decision to draft Williams; since his arrival the team has been successful. D-Will is widely recognized around the league as one of the top 3-5 pg's yet you say the Jazz made a bug mistake in drafting him...

[Batu7]

You guys are making it look like the Jazz drafted Marvin Williams instead of Paul.

[GP]

Easy guys...Again, its not like the jazz drafted Darko, DW is a good player, a very good player. However, to say DW>CP3 is not correct at all. At best DW=CP3, but from the games I have watched of both players, CP3 is the better player right now and has had the better career. I think Happyprole is right, Jazz fans will always give you some excuse for why dw is better than cp3. Now, maybe I have been influenced by the media, but don't you guys find it odd that the only people who consider DW > CP3 are Jazz fans, while just about everyone else considers CP3 a better player. Maybe its a conspiracy, or you guys are smarter than everyone else, including scouts, former players, current player, coaches...etc, but I doubt it. I think the jazz would jump at the chance to get cp3 for dw

[carrottop12]

Easy guys...Again, its not like the jazz drafted Darko, DW is a good player, a very good player. However, to say DW>CP3 is not correct at all. At best DW=CP3, but from the games I have watched of both players, CP3 is the better player right now and has had the better career. I think Happyprole is right, Jazz fans will always give you some excuse for why dw is better than cp3. Now, maybe I have been influenced by the media, but don't you guys find it odd that the only people who consider DW > CP3 are Jazz fans, while just about everyone else considers CP3 a better player. Maybe its a conspiracy, or you guys are smarter than everyone else, including scouts, former players, current player, coaches...etc, but I doubt it. I think the jazz would jump at the chance to get cp3 for dw

See how many people, including those on the national level who never see Deron Williams play until the playoffs.

Look at how many people now think Nash is better than Stockton was.

Also look at the opinions coming out now, including from fans of NO who are starting to question whether or not Paul makes his teams better, or if he just dominates the ball on his way to huge stats, and little team success.

The Jury is still completely out IMO on this match up. Paul has Deron statistically right now, but that doesn't end the conversation.

[freakazoid]

If Paul demanded a trade from NO, the Jazz would have the best chance of getting him. Paul for Williams.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.


The only reason to trade for Paul is so he can come off the bench behind Williams. Unless Deron is feelin' it and wants to play the whole game, then CP3 gets the DNP.

[carrottop12]

If Paul demanded a trade from NO, the Jazz would have the best chance of getting him.

No they wouldn't. There would be a lot of teams offering draft picks plus players for Paul that would be better options for the Hornets who need cheap player to grow with.

Not to mention they already suck with top caliber PG, they would likely be looking to change up the formula.