Congratulations Denver Nuggets

[Sean Reynolds]

don't even think about locking this thread! it is absolutely necessary to discuss this. After an entire season of Nuggets fans boasting about their regular season feats vs. the Jazz, this feels so good. I remember thinking I WANTED the Jazz to face the Nuggets, and this is as good as it gets. Jazz won handily.

Let us bask in the glory of it all while we can...we got the Lakers next

I'll face your Jazz team without your coach any day... be it all 7 games in Utah. I don't care if Phil Johnson has had sex on the sideline for 20 yrs with Sloan... and you'd be the same without Sloan and with Johnson. Without the head coach you're not the same team.

Put it this way, if you cannot manage a single win in the Lakers series, you gotta put a god damn ASTERISK next to your "Second Round, We Beat The Nuggets accomplishment". I wanna laugh so bad... you act like you beat a 100% team. I'm sure I'll be back here if you're swept.

Don't even bring Okur because his value to your team doesn't compare to a head coach's value.

Aww poor guy. Do you need a tissue? Havin' a bad day? Angry at the world?

Must suck being a Nuggets fan.

[idajazz]

I find it hard to believe that anybody that wears their pants above their butt cheeks could be a fan of a bunch of thugs like the nuggets.

Snake........ your argument might have a bit of Merit if.....
1. Utah wasn't missing 2 starters.
2. Coach Karl suited up and played.

Fact is the Nuggets core are vets that have already been as far as the west finals, They are supposed to be professional NBA players.
Go fish for a better excuse sourpuss.

[HammerDunk]

So, our string of 1 first round pick and 2nd rounders and undrafted rookies dismantling your string of first round picks doesn't merit a thread like this? ESPECIALLY after all the trash that was talked before and after game 1?

The fact is, AD didn't do as bad as everyone thinks he did. You tell me a single instance in this series where he himself lost a game for you, not JR Smith missing most of his shots or KMart imploding, where AD screwed up.

I don't know if you are blind or just stupid, but Sloan says very little on the bench. Look at him, he isn't riding the refs all game or yelling at his players, he keeps that team under control, and Johnson would do the same. Come to think of it, AD didn't look all that different from Karl on the bench either.

Our team had more heart, rallied around their afflictions much better, kept their cool, and showed your team of stars to the door. Suck on it crybaby.

[Sean Reynolds]

Funny how missing George Karl becomes an excuse now, even though he was their coach during a stretch of five consecutive first-round exits.

Karl's playoff record with Denver prior to last year's run: 4-20. Dantley's playoff record: 2-4.

Who's the problem again?

[Matt007b]

lol nuttynatfans post..

well if it makes you feel better Snake, I see us losing the series. So cheer up. Bandwagon for the lakers.


GO JAZZ

[SnakefromHell]

Funny how missing George Karl becomes an excuse now, even though he was their coach during a stretch of five consecutive first-round exits.

Karl's playoff record with Denver prior to last year's run: 4-20. Dantley's playoff record: 2-4.

Who's the problem again?

WTF does it have to do with his record "PRIOR TO LAST YEAR'S"? We got Chauncey and the era before "last year" was a mess filled with streetballers like AI, Boykins, Marcus "I'm Magic Johnson, I'm gonna play point center" Camby.

---

Hammerdunk, it's funny you say Sloan says so little for your team... what, are you implying he has LITTLE impact on how you play? Leadership is measured by how much you say... I understand your point. Uhh... that's so dumb.


---

idajazz, missing individual players... is that "individuals"... that can be replaced by other players assuming bigger roles. And safe to say, although I called them scrubs, Miles and Matthews did just that. Especially when you're performing in a disciplined system, that's not such a tough thing to do since players are given crystal clear roles from the start, such as "ok your job is to set screens, rebound, focus on those two, don't do things outside your role, anything extra is extra..."

But missing a coach is like missing the "entire system"... it's just not the same as missing players. Your team has been playing under the disciplined system for 20 years... take all that out and start imagining players playing streetball. I know you'd say Phil Johnson would install the same system as Sloan... but more than system, it's the "leadership" that's missing. That's why when Hammerdunk says Sloan doesn't do much because he doesn't say much, it's the stupidest thing I've heard EVER... does Phil Jackson have to be as loud as Sam Cassell to be successful? Leadership = bringing the best of your people marked by consistency and examples. Stress on consistency. You think by taking Sloan out, you wouldn't interfere with that? You would take out that consistent figure you've had for 20 years... he's been there for all of Deron and almost all of Boozer's careers and most of your team's role players'... him being absent would have been chaos. I tell you Sloan would do 1000000000x more for your team by just sitting there with his pissed off stupor tired old man looks than a basketball genius coaching your team for the last 25 games of the regular season and playoffs. Sloan has that leadership your team follows. What good is leadership if it's not followed?

If you had been missing Boozer or Deron, then you have a point, but you're only missing role players. Don't tell me AK would have shut down Melo by himself, because it will definitely take a team effort to slow down a superstar. AK would have needed help from the team defensively.

Losing AK, Okur doesn't compare to losing your head coach. If we were given the option to trade, I would take out Billups of the series in exchange for Sloan... if it was up to me. See how it would have gone...


No excuses... In short, I can't give you credit although I came here to do just that. But these acts by you fans like your team just beat a 100% team are laughable... we're essentially handicapped without coach because we're missing his leadership more than his coaching, you're barely limping without some role players.


Enjoy your short ride...

[Sean Reynolds]

WTF does it have to do with his record "PRIOR TO LAST YEAR'S"? We got Chauncey and the era before "last year" was a mess filled with streetballers like AI, Boykins, Marcus "I'm Magic Johnson, I'm gonna play point center" Camby.

Are you (Please Use More Appropriate Word)? You just made an entire case that the reason your team lost was because its coach was out. If it were solely about your coach, Denver wouldn't have a piss-poor playoff record under him.

Hey dumbass, you can't have it both ways. You can't say in one breath missing your coach was the reason you lost and then turn around and say the reason your coach led your Nuggets to an abysmal 4-20 playoff record prior to last year was because he didn't have Billups.

Is that not clear? Seriously? Are you that dense?

I mean, this is not hard to grasp.

Which, whether you want to agree or not, proves my point.

The Nuggets' x-factor last year was not Karl miraculously becoming a fantastic coach. His coaching philosophy last year was no different than the year before when your pathetic franchise was swept by the Lakers. He didn't change the plays or change his way of coaching. He got a damn good point guard, a floor leader, and that's what made Denver succeed.

So if it's Billups who is ultimately responsible for Denver's resurgence, which you've openly admitted is the case, then Karl's actions on the sideline are overplayed and certainly overrated.

Were the plays any different under Dantley? Karl has openly admitted he wasn't big on in-game coaching. Maybe they lost a bit of practice coaching. But then again, this is a veteran team with a veteran floor leader - so that should not be a problem, right?

You lost this series not because your overrated coach is fighting cancer. You lost this series because your team was outplayed by a better team. I bolded team because that's exactly what Denver failed to play as in this series. They were five guys playing one-on-one for most the series. Only sporadically did they come together and actually play like a true team.

But you know what? That was no different than Karl's Nuggets in 2008 and 2007 and 2006 and 2005 and 2004. You know, the other Denver teams that were absolutely abused and embarrassed in the first round.

The difference last year wasn't coaching. It was that Billups brought in that mentally tough, emotionally disciplined floor mindset that was woefully needed there. It helped, but for whatever reason, Billups failed to be any type of leader in this series. Maybe he was corrupted by the selfish nature of the Nuggets or maybe it's because he's one year older and was going up against the best point guard in the league. Regardless, having your coach on the sidelines wouldn't have changed that.

Your team is filled with a bunch of head cases and they've been that way for years. Even with Karl as coach. They did somewhat exorcise those demons last year, but I guess once team of selfish thugs, always a team of selfish thugs. Coach or not.

[SnakefromHell]

It's BOTH Billups and Karl you jackass...

Billups' role as a leader is to relay Karl's message to the players when they are on the floor... without the guy who sends the message, what message is he gonna relay to his teammates?

Sometimes to function you need to do so in the right environment... Karl nearly quit before Billups came, he publicly said that. But when Billups arrived, he was rejuvenated to coach... he was able to "function" again and step up... and do his coaching to his full ability. That's what you can ask for, is to function... if you can't function you better move on. But Billups helped change that environment to be workable for Karl...

In other words, yes, Karl needs Billups, but Billups still needs a head coach regardless... whether it's Larry Brown or Karl.

By functioning, Karl was able to step up into his leadership role... prior to Billups he couldn't function because partly because the team tuned him out, and partly because he almost gave up on the team. But again, Billups changed that and urged players to basically listen to the coach and relay the message to players in simpler definitions for them to understand the coach's message better. As a result, the players started to respond to the coach, and when the coach is listened to, he can function again... when Karl functions, he has that leadership back and the players embrace it. When he had to step down, we lost what we've embraced since last year... that's the real difference.

It's got nothing to do with the record before Chauncey you dumbass... the Karl before Chauncey was different than the Karl during Chauncey, whose leadership is embraced by the players. Chauncey or no Chauncey it ain't got no difference... if Chauncey can make your team listen to Donald Duck talking/ coaching... then when Donald goes down to injury and had to step away from the game, you're missing Donald Duck. After all, Chauncey didn't say "listen to me" he said... "listen to the coach... this is what he's saying". It's Chauncey's work, but it doesn't mean he's the leader when the leaders' leader is missing... you're still missing Donald.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

don't even think about locking this thread! it is absolutely necessary to discuss this. After an entire season of Nuggets fans boasting about their regular season feats vs. the Jazz, this feels so good. I remember thinking I WANTED the Jazz to face the Nuggets, and this is as good as it gets. Jazz won handily.

Let us bask in the glory of it all while we can...we got the Lakers next

I'll face your Jazz team without your coach any day... be it all 7 games in Utah. I don't care if Phil Johnson has had sex on the sideline for 20 yrs with Sloan... and you'd be the same without Sloan and with Johnson. Without the head coach you're not the same team.

Put it this way, if you cannot manage a single win in the Lakers series, you gotta put a god damn ASTERISK next to your "Second Round, We Beat The Nuggets accomplishment". I wanna laugh so bad... you act like you beat a 100% team. I'm sure I'll be back here if you're swept.

Don't even bring Okur because his value to your team doesn't compare to a head coach's value.

Aww poor guy. Do you need a tissue? Havin' a bad day? Angry at the world?

Must suck being a Nuggets fan.

The more Snake stays posting over here, the less it sucks.

[SnakefromHell]

I'm not gonna argue anymore, enjoy your 2nd round ride. Lose, but don't get swept because there'll be someone (me or not me) who will put an asterisk next to that second round accomplishment if you can't manage a single win in the second round It will so speak volumes.

[SnakefromHell]

The more Snake stays posting over here, the less it sucks.

I won't forget your backstabbing a fellow fan, you backstabbing bitch... you've done this many times. No matter how wrong/ right I am, you can't turn your back on your fellow fan in an argument vs an opposing team's fanbase. It's like you're joining their group in an argument vs. me. It must be who you are in your real life around real people. This time it's personal... it comes just at the perfect time to piss me off. I will stomp you when I meet you in real life, be glad that time may never come... lol. I bet there're many people in your life circle who want to do the same to you for the backstabbing you've done. Go join the Jazz fanbase you ****.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

The more Snake stays posting over here, the less it sucks.

I won't forget your backstabbing a fellow fan, you backstabbing bitch... you've done this many times. No matter how wrong/ right I am, you can't turn your back on your fellow fan in an argument vs an opposing team's fanbase. It's like you're joining their group in an argument vs. me. It must be who you are in your real life around real people. This time it's personal... it comes just at the perfect time to piss me off. I will stomp you when I meet you in real life, be glad that time may never come... lol. I bet there're many people in your life circle who want to do the same to you for the backstabbing you've done. Go join the Jazz fanbase you ****.

Hahaha, wow. Overreaction much?

You shouldn't puss out like Nene though and give up. You should stay here, keep trying to backup the Nuggets players. They need you!!! You are their superfan and best buddy!!

[Sloanfeld]

Snake just go enjoy your division title* and leave us alone.

[Sean Reynolds]

It's BOTH Billups and Karl you jackass...

Billups' role as a leader is to relay Karl's message to the players when they are on the floor... without the guy who sends the message, what message is he gonna relay to his teammates?

Sometimes to function you need to do so in the right environment... Karl nearly quit before Billups came, he publicly said that. But when Billups arrived, he was rejuvenated to coach... he was able to "function" again and step up... and do his coaching to his full ability. That's what you can ask for, is to function... if you can't function you better move on. But Billups helped change that environment to be workable for Karl...

In other words, yes, Karl needs Billups, but Billups still needs a head coach regardless... whether it's Larry Brown or Karl.

By functioning, Karl was able to step up into his leadership role... prior to Billups he couldn't function because partly because the team tuned him out, and partly because he almost gave up on the team. But again, Billups changed that and urged players to basically listen to the coach and relay the message to players in simpler definitions for them to understand the coach's message better. As a result, the players started to respond to the coach, and when the coach is listened to, he can function again... when Karl functions, he has that leadership back and the players embrace it. When he had to step down, we lost what we've embraced since last year... that's the real difference.

It's got nothing to do with the record before Chauncey you dumbass... the Karl before Chauncey was different than the Karl during Chauncey, whose leadership is embraced by the players. Chauncey or no Chauncey it ain't got no difference... if Chauncey can make your team listen to Donald Duck talking/ coaching... then when Donald goes down to injury and had to step away from the game, you're missing Donald Duck. After all, Chauncey didn't say "listen to me" he said... "listen to the coach... this is what he's saying". It's Chauncey's work, but it doesn't mean he's the leader when the leaders' leader is missing... you're still missing Donald.

God you're dumb.

I can see why Nugget fans have thrown you under the bus. If you were cheering for my team, I would seriously think of rooting for another.

I mean, you can't even get your story straight.

Now it's both Billups and Karl - but Jazz fans shouldn't even mention Okur and AK? I can not even begin to understand your warped and flawed logic.

But I'm glad you admit Billups was the only reason any Nugget fan had faith in Karl. And you're right. Karl had failed to prove himself at any point with Denver prior to Billups arriving. Their success last year was directly impacted by his play.

Now that essentially takes Karl out of the equation my dense friend. Since, as we've now conceded, much of the success of Denver over the last two years ultimately happened because of Billups. You've said as much. Your franchise was getting abused and embarrassed in the first-round long after Karl was named coach. That didn't change until Billups entered your lineup.

So now that we've made that clear and Billups was not, in fact, out with an injury, the difference in this series has nothing to do with your team missing its coach and everything to do with the fact Billups played pretty poorly for a good portion of this series. Having Karl on the sidelines does not do a thing to change that.

You know how I know that? Because Billups is supposedly Mr. Clutch. Mr. Veteran. Mr. Composed. As a veteran, he should be able to put together some type of leadership on the court in the absence of their head coach.

But he was shut down in this series and I see no evidence to suggest that would have never happened had Karl been coaching.

So yeah...stop with the excuses. You lost to a Jazz team without two major impact players. You blew home-court advantage and your team played, in an elimination game, like the tards we're so accustomed to seeing from our Eastern Rocky friends.

Let's face it, everything is pointing to last year being nothing more than a fluke run.

This falling on their ass in the first round is not new to your franchise. In fact, they've done a pretty good job of it more often than not.

Enjoy.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

Eh.. I feel like I should step in here, since beating up on 12 year olds really isn't nice to do. Even annoying ones.

You know how I know that? Because Billups is supposedly Mr. Clutch. Mr. Veteran. Mr. Composed. As a veteran, he should be able to put together some type of leadership on the court in the absence of their head coach.

Supposedly being the keyword. In March and April Billups was shooting 27% and 31% from three. He was awful at the end of the season and was ignoring AD's attempt at coaching. He really didn't show much leadership and at times was looking like AI out there. Somehow, Karl was helping his play.

The main thing Billups brought Denver last year, was a PG whose outside shot had to be respected. Until then, Denver didn't have anyone who could hit an outside shot at PG. So teams were able to pack the paint, and turn Denver in to jump shooters. The team just wasn't built well and wasn't built to win in the playoffs, had always been the lower seed going against one of the best, so pretty obvious they hadn't been out of the first round until Billups arrival.

Although you can't put all the success on Billups. Billups first year was also the year Kmart and Nene had there most healthy seasons as Nuggets, and Birdman was actually good. They were able to get a higher seed and finally play some cream puffs in the playoffs.

Maybe a better coach could have pulled up an upset in one of those 1st round games. I actually thought Denver had a chance against the Spurs a few years ago, but AI kept shooting Denver out of games.

What can't be denied is how different GK and AD did this season. GK went 41-17, while missing Kmart, Melo, Billups, JR, and Birdman (I believe) at different points. AD went 12-12 while missing Kmart. So I'd say it is pretty obvious, Karl's loss played a huge role in why the Nuggets fell apart at the end of the season. This had started long before the Jazz series.

I feel Denver was the better team when Karl was coaching, but Utah was definitely the better team in the playoffs. That's all that matters. I'm not trying to take anything away from Utah, I wish Denver had a more structured offense like they do. And Kyrylo Fesenko on the bench.

[Sean Reynolds]

Eh.. I feel like I should step in here, since beating up on 12 year olds really isn't nice to do. Even annoying ones.

You know how I know that? Because Billups is supposedly Mr. Clutch. Mr. Veteran. Mr. Composed. As a veteran, he should be able to put together some type of leadership on the court in the absence of their head coach.

Supposedly being the keyword. In March and April Billups was shooting 27% and 31% from three. He was awful at the end of the season and was ignoring AD's attempt at coaching. He really didn't show much leadership and at times was looking like AI out there. Somehow, Karl was helping his play.

The main thing Billups brought Denver last year, was a PG whose outside shot had to be respected. Until then, Denver didn't have anyone who could hit an outside shot at PG. So teams were able to pack the paint, and turn Denver in to jump shooters. The team just wasn't built well and wasn't built to win in the playoffs, had always been the lower seed going against one of the best, so pretty obvious they hadn't been out of the first round until Billups arrival.

Although you can't put all the success on Billups. Billups first year was also the year Kmart and Nene had there most healthy seasons as Nuggets, and Birdman was actually good. They were able to get a higher seed and finally play some cream puffs in the playoffs.

Maybe a better coach could have pulled up an upset in one of those 1st round games. I actually thought Denver had a chance against the Spurs a few years ago, but AI kept shooting Denver out of games.

What can't be denied is how different GK and AD did this season. GK went 41-17, while missing Kmart, Melo, Billups, JR, and Birdman (I believe) at different points. AD went 12-12 while missing Kmart. So I'd say it is pretty obvious, Karl's loss played a huge role in why the Nuggets fell apart at the end of the season. This had started long before the Jazz series.

I feel Denver was the better team when Karl was coaching, but Utah was definitely the better team in the playoffs. That's all that matters. I'm not trying to take anything away from Utah, I wish Denver had a more structured offense like they do. And Kyrylo Fesenko on the bench.

Billups has been around long enough to not need to be coached up. That's the beauty of having a good veteran point guard because it allows the head coach essentially another coach on the court.

Even Jerry Sloan lets Williams run a good portion of the offense.

If Billups struggled and tuned out AD, then this series is on HIM and not on the absence of Karl. Because frankly, with how long he's been in the league and how good he's supposed to be, that type of attitude is just uncalled for and I'd be livid as a Nugget fan in that regard.

[Nutty Nats Fan]

Billups has been around long enough to not need to be coached up. That's the beauty of having a good veteran point guard because it allows the head coach essentially another coach on the court.

Even Jerry Sloan lets Williams run a good portion of the offense.

If Billups struggled and tuned out AD, then this series is on HIM and not on the absence of Karl. Because frankly, with how long he's been in the league and how good he's supposed to be, that type of attitude is just uncalled for and I'd be livid as a Nugget fan in that regard.

Good veteran point guard and Billups, just doesn't seem to go together. We've had Piston fans coming to our board, telling us this is what Billups is. A shoot first PG, who takes bad shots. He was Mr. Big Shot, because the Media hyped the few times those bad shots hit.

Of course Billups doesn't suck, and GK did let him run things a lot of times (although Billups did ignore plays GK drew up too at times). But the records speak for themselves. 41-17 vs 12-12. I put most of it on AD. Billups definitely didn't help things, and there are a bunch of Nugget fans that do want Billups traded.

[SnakefromHell]

Which one do you like? Two hands for two of you? Or two different people for two of you?

SR, Billups is the bridge between Karl (coach) and players. You don't have the bridge, you fail, but if you don't have the coach, what's the purpose of the **** bridge? He's not the **** coach... go observe our bench during timeouts. With the exception of maybe J.R. Smith the insane, all players huddle up around Karl, not Billups. He's not the God damn coach... if you say players respond only to Billups, and Karl does not matter, I guess they would huddle up around Billups, like Cleveland basically huddles up around LeBron and not Mike Brown gosh is he a poor guy. Our players have been responding to Karl ever since Billups came. Billups energizes Karl to do his job... players used to not to respond to Karl because both parties almost quit on each other, but that's no longer the case, that's the AI, Marcus Camby days... those days are IRRELEVANT. What matters is TODAY. Like I said, we've been responding to Karl positively... even Billups himself said the team is missing his voice and leadership.

If by now you still have a hard time grasping what I say, I guess you need to learn the true definition of "leadership" first.


Watching you guys reply to each other is like cat and dog playing nice because the owner is home, but they can't wait to rip each other apart when the owner leaves home. Thus facepalm, you guys go around and around getting nowhere in silly "nice" conversation.


Our 2008-09 season is a "fluke"? Manage a win against the Lakers first... and talk with that type of audacity. Win one against the Lakers this series, and I'll leave you all in peace, get swept and I'll haunt this forum for as long as this thread remains unlocked.

[Neon Black]

or you could get a girlfriend so you don't have to keep whacking it to the Sims in between your posts.

or "haunt" the forum i guess, whatever that means. be my guest big guy.