hayward: elephant in the room?

QuantumMacgyver · Post #1 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:11 pm

Let me start by saying I'm a huge Hayward fan and that i love what he brings to the game. That being said, if Haywards shot doesn't start falling, at what point in the season do we have to accept that maybe he isn't a shooter? All star break, end of the regular session, playoffs( if we make it), next season?

meat tray · Post #2 » by **meat tray** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:01 pm

I don't think he has ever been or will ever be a "pure" shooter. He's fairly athletic, a good playmaker, and he (usually) can knock down an open jumper, but I don't think he's a guy who should be a team's primary outside threat.

His averages were good last year, but he didn't take a ton of attempts. In college he was inconsistent, hitting 44% as a Freshman, but only 30% the following year.

I think playing at the 2 spot would help. At the 3 his length is no longer an advantage and he is simply getting out muscled by bigger guys. It's the difference between going against guys like Marion, Butler, James Johnson vs. Delonte, Billups, DeRozen.

I also think he may be better at this point coming off the bench in favor of starting CJ. With the way CJ has been attacking lately, it would add a dimension missing from the starting lineup, and it would allow Hayward to come off the bench as a 2 playing alongside Howard. It would also allow him to get more time with Favors, who he has developed some nice chemistry with. Maybe going against the other team's bench and not having the pressure of starting would get his confidence going. Of course it could go the other way and the demotion could shatter what little confidence he has remaining :-?

HolyToledo · Post #3 » by **HolyToledo** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:06 pm

He is a very good passer, decent defender, good rebounder, and smart player and just an ok shooter and I doubt he will ever be better than just an ok shooter. The Jazz really need the other wing player and/or PG to be very good shooters for it to work for Hayward and the Jazz. Unfortunately, the Jazz have no good outside shooters on their roster.

retiredcoach · Post #4 » by **retiredcoach** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:06 pm

by QuantumMacgyver on Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:11 am
Let me start by saying I'm a huge Hayward fan and that i love what he brings to the game. That being said, if Haywards shot doesn't start falling, at what point in the season do we have to accept that maybe he isn't a shooter? All star break, end of the regular session, playoffs( if we make it), next season?

Hayward is a shooter. Just like last year, he's the best shooter during practices. The coaching staff knows that, and that's why they're supporting him.

Hayward's problems shooting in the games has to do with an inability to relax during the games probably caused by a very strong desire to please and a struggle to choose between his point guard mentality and running his own numbers. Hayward doesn't play for himself and it's hurting him offensively.

There's an article about Hayward's offensive problems that will probably get published in two weeks. And there's one coming on why CJ is inconsistent. Interesting.

Most years Hayward will be close to 50% from the field and in the mid 40's on 3's. That will make him an important scoring option for the Jazz. Once he gets passed his psych issues, his numbers may very well match those percentages for the balance of the year once he's back on track.

A lot of fans throw in the towel far too soon. I guess they think players are like robots. If they're not meeting expectations, they should be repaired or replaced. Too bad it's not that simple.

BarneyGumble · Post #5 » by **BarneyGumble** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:08 pm

He needs to get more consistent. Cant keep going for 19 one night and 2 the next, thats for sure.

Post #6 » by **StocktonShorts** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:50 pm

I think he'll always have trouble getting a comfortable shot off against other small forwards and longer twos. He has a short wingspan and a low release.

schneiderjazz · Post #7 » by **schneiderjazz** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:04 pm

I don't think Hayward's problem is actually shooting. He's a good enough shooter. What drives me crazy is that he can get to the rim, but he can't finish. Most of the time he doesn't even attack the rim anymore, he just looks to pass the ball. If Gordon was a better finisher, he'd be worlds better than he's right now. He could do some damage even if his shot is not falling.

Lava Rock Kid · Post #8 » by **Lava Rock Kid** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:07 pm

Why cant hayward realize that he is white. Why cant he accept this fact. He is supposed to be able to shoot the ball. If he would just accept his color, he would quit handling the ball and just hang arount the three point line and launch the long ball.

youngthegiant · Post #9 » by **youngthegiant** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:09 am

would you guys do a swap of hayward for wilson chandler? or even better a swap of wilson chandler for alec burks?

The59Sound · Post #10 » by **The59Sound** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:20 am

youngthegiant wrote:would you guys do a swap of hayward for wilson chandler? or even better a swap of wilson chandler for alec burks?

I like Wilson Chandler, but I think both Hayward and Burks have the potential to be better players. Also, they're still on their rookie contracts, whereas it's time to pay up with a long-term contract for Chandler. I think we're better off keeping our guys, but that's certainly a fair offer.

jazzed77 · Post #11 » by **jazzed77** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:27 am

I wonder how Hayward do alongside say Ben Gordon? Make Hayward the primary ballhandler and allow Gordon to play the 2 on O and the 1 on D.....

retiredcoach · Post #12 » by **retiredcoach** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:16 am

by Lava Rock Kid on Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:07 pm
Why cant hayward realize that he is white. Why cant he accept this fact. He is supposed to be able to shoot the ball. If he would just accept his color, he would quit handling the ball and just hang arount the three point line and launch the long ball.

I tweeted him before the game and ask him to look in the mirror. He's still stunned to find out he's white, and he doesn't have any tats. He always thought he had two.

I sent a message to one of the beat writers to ask Corbin if he knew Hayward was white. The coaching staff may have misread Hayward.

reapaman · Post #13 » by **reapaman** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:29 am

Simple, he needs to play to his strengths and he will be fine. He is that point-foward type of player that can do a little bit of everything. If he sticks to that and not trying to be like manu (which he will never be), he will be fine. This is the sophmore wall where he's trying to find himself and all that.

erudite23 · Post #14 » by **erudite23** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:57 am

*sigh*

This is exactly the kind of thread we were creating last year at this time. As previously noted, this is obviously psychological. The dude can flat out shoot, and its obvious by watching him. Right now he puts so much pressure on himself to not make mistakes that he becomes passive and hesitant. Tonight's game is a great example of the player he is capable of being. He's a big wing who is really athletic and has a great stroke and handle. Think about that combination. He'll be fine. I don't worry about him at all.

Favors, though, is starting to get me just a little concerned. But's its still really early for both of them. Hayward is the least of our concerns, imo.

Litany · Post #15 » by **Litany** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:15 am

reapaman wrote:Simple, he needs to play to his strengths and he will be fine. He is that point-foward type of player that can do a little bit of everything. If he sticks to that and not trying to be like manu (which he will never be), he will be fine. This is the sophmore wall where he's trying to find himself and all that.

You don't think he is Manu? I could have sworn that in every post you have ever made relating to Hayward that you said you think he is.

Post #16 » by **StocktonShorts** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:21 am

erudite23 wrote:Favors, though, is starting to get me just a little concerned. But's its still really early for both of them. Hayward is the least of our concerns, imo.

I think Favors will be fine once he starts getting consistent touches. At one point or another he's shown he can do nearly everything you want a big man to do, he just needs to put it all together and do it regularly. I know that's a big next step, but I think he's entirely capable of making it if given the opportunity.