Jazz Offensive Sets Sac Game Changes

retiredcoach · Post #1 » by **retiredcoach** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:20 am

Seems like the Jazz only have one offensive scheme. Throw the ball to Al and stand around.

Play 2 throw the ball to Millsap and stand around.

If they don't get off that, they'll never get the ball movement they need to be an outside threat because neither of those guys passes the ball much. Especially Al.

Jazzfan12 · Post #2 » by **Jazzfan12** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:27 am

Millsap passes all the time, why do you keep trying to bring this up?

The offensive sets aren't world shattering, but the team's problem is that it lacks high level developed talent.

retiredcoach · Post #3 » by **retiredcoach** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:08 am

by Jazzfan12 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:27 pm
Millsap passes all the time, why do you keep trying to bring this up?

The offensive sets aren't world shattering, but the team's problem is that it lacks high level developed talent.

How often does Millsap pass and who does he pass too? Ever count them? I'm talking about for the season, not just for one individual game. Of the passes Millsap does do during a game, how many of them are away from the open man? I don't spit out mindless opinions. I've compared my numbers with other stats guys. That's why I keep bringing it up. It's not about perception, it's about counting.

I don't care if the team doesn't have "high level developed talent". If a team runs the same offensive sets over and over, it can only do that for two reasons. One because it's unstoppable, (Stockton and Malone) or the mismatch is huge. Not often the case.

If a team runs the same offensive inside sets, then when the defense collapses inside, they really can't go outside because it's not part of their game. A team can't develop an outside game unless they actually have offensive sets designed for that. Right now the Jazz appear to be taking outside shots when the inside pass can't be made, the shot clock has run down, or the speed up the courts doesn't allow the bigs to get setup.

Good outside shots come from good ball movement. If a team goes inside to guys like Al who hardly ever pass out, even when double team, they can't suddenly go back to fast smart ball movement when they need to. Once in awhile Al has looked like he's going to start passing, but then he stops again.

As the season goes along, if their offense stays the same as it is now, it will cost them a lot of games---but they'll get a draft pick.

Amish Mafioso · Post #4 » by **Amish Mafioso** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:09 am

I've noticed lately that when Al does pass the ball out, they often throw it right back into him. Hard to blame it on Al when guys are afraid to shoot. This team really needs outside shooting.

retiredcoach · Post #5 » by **retiredcoach** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:18 am

Amish Mafioso on Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:09 pm
I've noticed lately that when Al does pass the ball out, they often throw it right back into him. Hard to blame it on Al when guys are afraid to shoot. This team really needs outside shooting.

That's my point. I'm not blaming Al. They pass the ball back into Al because they don't have any other plays to run or too much time has elapsed off the shot clock to get a good shot.

Ball movement has to be there on almost every play when there's only 18 or so seconds in the half court to get the shot off.

Right now the Jazz are playing the inside percentages. But as the season goes on, teams will be playing the Jazz with mostly healthy players, they'll run a zone or collapse inside. Then what?

The Raptors killed the Jazz with a zone. To beat a zone, a team has to have quick ball movement, create good outside shots and whip the ball inside for quick paint plays. In a zone, Al can't take 12 seconds to shoot. The jazz couldn't beat the zone because they don't have offensive sets for that. They don't have enough ball movement.

Amish Mafioso · Post #6 » by **Amish Mafioso** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:47 am

retiredcoach wrote:That's my point. I'm not blaming Al.

Sorry, I should have been more clear with my thoughts. I wasn't directing that at you. Al has taken a lot of heat over his inabilty/reluctance to pass the ball out by Jazz fans in general. He gets called a black hole, and yet our offense does seem to often stall in the same way when they start relying on Millsap too much. I've argued before that the blackhole affect has just as much to do with the offensive incompetence of the rest of our players, as it does with Al.

Post #7 » by **StocktonShorts** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:42 pm

So very true. I think it's mostly laziness and lack of initiative. If they dump it into Al that means they don't have to run around, set picks and expend energy. They also then don't have to be the guy that misses a shot. Lots of guys on this team look scared to shoot.

I put some of the blame on Al and some on the other guys (and the coaching staff) for enabling him to be such an offense killer.

Paul is also a black hole, but he's a MUCH more efficient one than Al, so it's less grating.

mct · Post #8 » by **mct** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:47 pm

Al and Millsap have been reasonably effective creating their own shot in the post. Unfortunately, these same sets don't work at all for Favors and Kanter. Hayward needs to be running the pick and roll with Favors, not dumping the ball down to him. Actually, now that I think about it, those two are rarely in the game together. The second unit needs a better playmaker in the half court, or at least a shift in the offense that puts Favors and Kanter in a better position to succeed.

retiredcoach · Post #9 » by **retiredcoach** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:06 am

by mct on Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:47 pm
Al and Millsap have been reasonably effective creating their own shot in the post. Unfortunately, these same sets don't work at all for Favors and Kanter. Hayward needs to be running the pick and roll with Favors, not dumping the ball down to him. Actually, now that I think about it, those two are rarely in the game together. The second unit needs a better playmaker in the half court, or at least a shift in the offense that puts Favors and Kanter in a better position to succeed.

Hayward, when he's in the 2, is very effective at executing the pick and roll with Favors. I'm very surprised Corbin has not gone to that more.

I think the reason you don't see it is Corbin is biased toward Bell and Al. Al is good in the post, but he's one dimensional player that causes the whole game to slow down. On one hand Corbin wants Harris to push the ball and on the other he wants Hayward to feed Al the ball and then everyone else watches him take 15 seconds to shoot.

I think Bell should be coming off the bench to provide some defense in the second unit and some possible scoring. I would move Hayward to the 2, and try starting Favors in place of Al. I would also try to get Millsap to move the ball more.

When Corbin starts Favors for Al, but leaves Bell in the two and Hayward at the SF, Favors and Hayward don't create as much.

Wolverine · Post #10 » by **Wolverine** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:09 am

I've noticed this as well. Too predictable & if it's not working then what?

retiredcoach · Post #11 » by **retiredcoach** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:15 am

by Wolverine on Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:09 pm
I've noticed this as well. Too predictable & if it's not working then what?

The "then what" has been a big problem for the Jazz, and it looks like it will be for the whole season.

Corbin wants to win games. I can't blame him for that. Al is high percentage shooter as long as he isn't over matched. So Corbin is playing the percentages. The question i have is what it is doing to the rest of the team?

kenczka · Post #12 » by **kenczka** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:20 am

What the hell happened to the pick and roll game? We have bigs who can shoot. I live in a Nuggets market and get to watch many of their games. They have a nice offensive scheme. They spread the crap out of the floor and isolate nene with whomever has the ball in their hand. Why not run Hawyard through some pick and rolls with the ball in his hand? So far this season it seams like they have a crappy offensive scheme. Don't like it one bit.....

Wolverine · Post #13 » by **Wolverine** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:43 am

I guess we saw plan B tonight

retiredcoach · Post #14 » by **retiredcoach** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:51 am

The Jazz passed the ball much better tonight. Al was passing and not holding the ball. Millsap was moving the ball much better.

The Jazz worked on options for passing against the zone in practice.They looked much better than they did in the Toronto game.

Unfortunately, the Jazz paint defense was often not effective, and their shooting percentage in the paint was much lower than usual. Hopefully they will keep passing the ball while correcting the other two problems.

Hayward did a good job. I thought he missed a couple he should have had and Sac was very physical with him but only got called for it a couple of times. CJ played smarter also. I doubt it will last but one can always hope.