Portland game. Kanter and Favors each get 21 points.

[Neon Black]

This place would be boring if everyone agreed and patted each other on the back all the time.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

Not gonna lie... won't shock me to see Kanter in an all-star game two years down the road.

[Inigo Montoya]

Reapa may be contrary just to be contrary, but he does it with style. I genuinely enjoy all of these endless back-and-forths (Quantum is my favorite foil), even if I make a Scooby Doo "WTF?" face when I read most of reapaman's posts.

QuantumMacgyver is by far the best username I saw anywhere. Just thought I'd throw it out there. Just an awesome nick. And that picture is also priceless. Gets me every time.

[Sparky6string]

The video that reapaman provided shows Kanter dominating. It shows a great all around game- why would we want to see different then that? If you don't see Kanter as having good shot mechanics then you aren't paying attention to the videos in this thread including the one you provided. Where Kanter went wrong was last season where he hadn't played in a couple of years and had added unnecessary weight. Still he put together a decent rookie season considering how young he was and how little he had played the previous couple of years.

reapaman mentioned that pre-draft he had heard Kanter was all these things but he must have turned his set off before they mentioned over and over again that Enes was a project that would take time to develop in the NBA. He has exceeded expectations with the Jazz so at least his bosses are happy. Watching Kanter play these days I see a quicker, more fit player that plays with added confidence. He's showing great arc on his shot, and impresses me as a very intelligent kid in ways that matter.

Now Favors didn't look as good but from what I understand he did work on his game and perhaps it will take a few games to adjust. Good thing we have Big Al, Millsap and Kanter.

[QuantumMacgyver]

This place would be boring if everyone agreed and patted each other on the back all the time.

I couldn't agree more... *pat *pat *pat

[reapaman]

Well I glad I amuse everyone. I filled so fufilled, like the skip bayless of Jazz forum. They listen just too laugh about it later. For your entertainment. Whoo Hoo. Ok anywho .....

To sparky

The stuff I said about what I saw pre-draft was pertaining to people on this Jazz board. Yes the professional NBA analyst were saying he was a project but many of these people didn't say that. To make a long story short, these people said his post moves and jump shot were already good enough even though he ended up getting alot of them blocked in the nba and he shot under 35% beyond 3 feet. Or he was a really good defender despite only being good a low post defense which virtually useless today. Or better yet he will win more games with him starting than Jefferson also including that Millsap should be his backup now despite both players being way more advanced than him. Or how about the notion that it will take him only 2-3 to reach allstar level putting him in the likes with guys like Howard and Garnett. In what world does a project only take 2-3 years to reach allstar level? Even Bynum who they often cite as a project that became successful took much longer than that. Proffessional Analyst didn't say none of that crap for the most part but the Jazz homers went crazy with it. ITS LIKE THE COMING OF JESUS. Save us Kanter, Save us from mediocracy and take us to the promise land like Malone and stocking couldn't. You will do that in year 3, Kanter; your that good.

As for the video. The video is just to show that most of that stuff was not happening last year in the NBA despite him doing it there. So just because he's doing it in the pre-season when every year we have many pre-season warriors that end up not improving from the previous regular season, means nothing. For example, many of those back to the basket juke moves he did were getting blocked, stolen or plain missed if he managed to get the shot off. And he does have good mechanics most of the time but that doesn't matter. He excutes the moves too slow. He's incosistent in how he excutes the move especially when he gets tired or under high pressure. He showed a lack of confidence in his moves. Just because it appears that your doing it right doesn't mean that the move will work. Its the difference between Peja and Marion having horrible mechanics yet are great shooters and Rose and Lebron having good mechanics and are not good shooters yet. Kanter had good mechanics most of the time but theres a reason less than 35% of his shots outside of putback, dunks and layups were going in last year. Theres other factors invovled.

[Sparky6string]

Well I glad I amuse everyone. I filled so fufilled, like the skip bayless of Jazz forum. They listen just too laugh about it later. For your entertainment. Whoo Hoo. Ok anywho .....

To sparky

The stuff I said about what I saw pre-draft was pertaining to people on this Jazz board. Yes the professional NBA analyst were saying he was a project but many of these people didn't say that. To make a long story short, these people said his post moves and jump shot were already good enough even though he ended up getting alot of them blocked in the nba and he shot under 35% beyond 3 feet. Or he was a really good defender despite only being good a low post defense which virtually useless today. Or better yet he will win more games with him starting than Jefferson also including that Millsap should be his backup now despite both players being way more advanced than him. Or how about the notion that it will take him only 2-3 to reach allstar level putting him in the likes with guys like Howard and Garnett. In what world does a project only take 2-3 years to reach allstar level? Even Bynum who they often cite as a project that became successful took much longer than that. Proffessional Analyst didn't say none of that crap for the most part but the Jazz homers went crazy with it. ITS LIKE THE COMING OF JESUS. Save us Kanter, Save us from mediocracy and take us to the promise land like Malone and stocking couldn't. You will do that in year 3, Kanter; your that good.

As for the video. The video is just to show that most of that stuff was not happening last year in the NBA despite him doing it there. So just because he's doing it in the pre-season when every year we have many pre-season warriors that end up not improving from the previous regular season, means nothing. For example, many of those back to the basket juke moves he did were getting blocked, stolen or plain missed if he managed to get the shot off. And he does have good mechanics most of the time but that doesn't matter. He excutes the moves too slow. He's incosistent in how he excutes the move especially when he gets tired or under high pressure. He showed a lack of confidence in his moves. Just because it appears that your doing it right doesn't mean that the move will work. Its the difference between Peja and Marion having horrible mechanics yet are great shooters and Rose and Lebron having good mechanics and are not good shooters yet. Kanter had good mechanics most of the time but theres a reason less than 35% of his shots outside of putback, dunks and layups were going in last year. Theres other factors invovled.

After reading your first paragraph I understand your position a bit better, but you are still wrong in your second. Like you said the video shows he was not doing this last year, and now the video shows he is. But the video did not show he did this last year pre-season.

So what does the evidence say? It says at one time he was in shape and his skills were sharpened, then he did not play for an extended period of time which allowed his skills to diminish, then he started playing again and sharpened up his skills again. He has lost weight and moves considerably faster now. I understand it's easy to be cynical as a Jazz fan but you also gotta learn to accept the good. You are showing the results when he was out of shape and hadn't played in 2 years to support your position, which isn't accurate. You can see with your own eyes he has improved regarding speed, mechanics down low, face up shooting etc.

[aether1234]

Any change you related to Greeks reapaman ?

[erudite23]

Reapa, you've done such a great job painting yourself into a corner, there's no need for anyone else to contribute. It's just fun to watch you squirm. The truth will be self-evident, however it plays out, and no amount of denial on your part will change it. Kanter is a vastly different player this preseason than he was last year, and its showing in the numbers. However, no one is expecting you to accept just this as proof. All anyone is saying is that this is one of the early signs, which it truly is. Its very, very common for players who are preparing to break out to show it in the preseason before they take it to the real games. Kevin Love is a fantastic example of this, as the year before his 3rd season he had a phenomenal pre season....which he carried over to the regular season, and which resulted in his ascension into the elite of the NBA.

Kanter isn't there yet, but he looks to be far ahead of what we saw last year. And that's saying something. We'll continue to watch him prove you wrong (as he began to last season) while you squirm and protest your way into irredeemable invalidation, and likely disappear from the board. I don't know about you, but I'm really excited about it.

[The59Sound]

As long as he hits that 15 PPG mark, it won't matter if he shoots 35 percent beyond 3 feet... right?

[reapaman]

As long as he hits that 15 PPG mark, it won't matter if he shoots 35 percent beyond 3 feet... right?

Well I explained in detail that I misworded that and I was refering to that people kept suggesting that he had to hit 50% or more from FG (overall) to be a good shooter but he could be 44% FG like kevin love instead. I even said "obviously 39% for example would be no good" just to make myself clearer and it was ignored but whatever.

Look btw euridite I'm not squirming, its just entertainment with the back and forths. I could just stopped posting and let it playout because I'm not worried at all that my long term prediction will be wrong. like I said before, Ive done these long player predictions things that spand over years countless times and not bragging but I'm rarely wrong despite have many people against me and few on my side which may explain why I may come off stubborn since I've seen this scenario so many times play in my favor.

Plus I think your not understanding my position on the pre-season thing. You guys think he looks improved for whatever reason (technical wise not referring to performance since it is pre-season) while I'm looking at him and see not much different in his game. The only real difference is he's more in-shape which was never my issue with him because I didn't know until a month ago that he ever had a weight problem and many people on this forum said they didn't know that either. His post moves are not too slow and not refined due to his athletism; it because they are not polished and way to mechanical which improves through years upon years of seasoning. I mean he hasn't been playing basketball that long so I expected his post moves to be not strong for a few more years at least. Yea he's getting a "little" bit more lift of his jump and may look not as funny running up the court but I never cared about that and thats the only real difference I see.

[Sparky6string]

As long as he hits that 15 PPG mark, it won't matter if he shoots 35 percent beyond 3 feet... right?

Well I explained in detail that I misworded that and I was refering to that people kept suggesting that he had to hit 50% or more from FG (overall) to be a good shooter but he could be 44% FG like kevin love instead. I even said "obviously 39% for example would be no good" just to make myself clearer and it was ignored but whatever.

Look btw euridite I'm not squirming, its just entertainment with the back and forths. I could just stopped posting and let it playout because I'm not worried at all that my long term prediction will be wrong. like I said before, Ive done these long player predictions things that spand over years countless times and not bragging but I'm rarely wrong despite have many people against me and few on my side which may explain why I may come off stubborn since I've seen this scenario so many times play in my favor.

Plus I think your not understanding my position on the pre-season thing. You guys think he looks improved for whatever reason (technical wise not referring to performance since it is pre-season) while I'm looking at him and see not much different in his game. The only real difference is he's more in-shape which was never my issue with him because I didn't know until a month ago that he ever had a weight problem and many people on this forum said they didn't know that either. His post moves are not too slow and not refined due to his athletism; it because they are not polished and way to mechanical which improves through years upon years of seasoning. I mean he hasn't been playing basketball that long so I expected his post moves to be not strong for a few more years at least. Yea he's getting a "little" bit more lift of his jump and may look not as funny running up the court but I never cared about that and thats the only real difference I see.

Actually I value your POV, and you may well be correct in the end. My only argument at this time is that I don't really want him to look different than the video you provided because he smoked the competition there. You seem to be basing your impressions of Enes by his level of play when he was out of shape and hadn't played in a long time. Perhaps his moves were too slow last year, but not in the video you posted and not in the pre-season this year. Really all you have if you're being honest now is that the pre-season may be misleading us as to his skills vs legit NBA competition.

Also a little more lift was all he needed to keep from getting his shot blocked, and you should care about that.

[countrybama24]

Kanter is going to beast. Is he going to be a top three center? Probably not, but he seems like he'll be a very good starting center. That's good enough for me.

Look, we rolled with Okur / Boozer for almost a half-decade. I'm ecstatic about a Kanter / Favors front court in comparison.

[StocktonShorts]

Kanter is going to beast. Is he going to be a top three center? Probably not, but he seems like he'll be a very good starting center. That's good enough for me.

Look, we rolled with Okur / Boozer for almost a half-decade. I'm ecstatic about a Kanter / Favors front court in comparison.

Boozer/Okur had Deron Williams. Who will Favors/Kanter have?