The Harden Deal

[StocktonShorts]

You would have to be insane not to do that deal for Harden. People don't understand exactly what he did last year.

66% TRUE SHOOTING


Let that sink in. The only player to EVER post that type of shooting efficiency while using that many possessions was Charles Barkley. That is rarified air. There are still a lot of questions surrounding him, but he's a pick and roll operator who can create off the dribble, spot up off the ball, facilitate offense, rebound, and defend. He's the total package (although he needs to focus more on D as he evolves) and is absolutely worth the max.

Is he the #1 on a championship team? Hard to say right now. Maybe. But if you don't flip Al, Burks, GS pick and future 1sts for him, you don't know NBA basketball. That is an no-brainer. I would personally be willing to give up more than that.

Don't forget that statistics go up when one is playing a bench role.

Do you offer any evidence for this assertion?

[Ming Kong!]

Harden is a great 6th man, and in today's league, he's the 3rd best player on a championship team. If he's the 2nd best player on your team, I don't think you hold a chance to win a title. Even the Pistons who didn't have superstars had three players clearly better than Harden (B.Wallace, G,Wallace and Billups) and I'd say Hamilton was as good if not better. Harden is worth $10-12M. At $15M you better be a superstar, top 10-15 player in the league.

[Sparky6string]

Locke talks about this at 10 mins in.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyi0cNZgvic[/youtube]

[StocktonShorts]

I love how Locke tries to equate Utah's situation with OKC's, when the players aren't even on the same level.

If you put Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka, Harden, Favors, Kanter, Hayward and Burks in a draft, do any Jazz players get picked in the top four?

[ColdBlue]

66% TRUE SHOOTING

If Burks tunes up his 3 and FT he is our Harden offensively.

[StocktonShorts]

66% TRUE SHOOTING

If Burks tunes up his 3 and FT he is our Harden offensively.

Their rookie seasons are not dissimilar:

Harden was 15.6/5.1/2.8 (pts/rbs/assts) per 36 mins on 40%/37.5%/80% (FG/3FG/FT) shooting as a rookie in 1738 minutes.

Burks was 16.3/5.1/2.1 per 36 on 42.9%/33.3%/72.7% shooting in 939 minutes.

[Hoops Addict]

I like Hardens game but I would pass. We need a true PG.

I like Harden, but if you have to pay someone the max......I want someone else, a PG, like Rondo or another similar skilled player.

[reapaman]

I like harden alot but I certainly wouldn't pay him 55 mil non to mention the max and I think Houston greatly overpaid and will regret it. Theres a huge flaw in wings who can score and be playmakers at the same time like Harden, Manu, Mike Miller and even our very own Hayward and burks. That is that they need the ball in their hands to do what they do best but they are not Elite scorers or elite playmakers. You can't build around them and its hard to put them next to another very good or elite playmaker or scorer because they both need the ball in their hands to do what they do. This is why most of these type of guys become sixth men because its best to put them with the second unit to have more time being the primary ball handler and let your #1 and possibly #2/#3 guy (depending on team structure) mostly operate with the starting unit so they spend as less time as possible stomping on each others toes so to speak.

You just don't pay max or even near max for non-elite guys because you only have so much cap room especially in a small market where owners can only afford so much. Hardens not gonna take you far without a durant and/or westbrook type play on his team while either one of them can get farther without harden than he can without them. I understand his stats are very impressive but they don't tell the whole story. His effect on the game is great but not near the effect of a guy like kevin durant so why should they be paid close or the same type of money?

[Neon Black]

I'm sorry, but manu is absolutely an elite player. Maybe not as much now.

[StocktonShorts]

An elite wing paired with a great front court is a common recipe for a title. Harden is great in the pick and roll. Harden plus Favors and Kanter could've been amazing.

[StocktonShorts]

I'm sorry, but manu is absolutely an elite player. Maybe not as much now.

Definitely. Manu is five times the player Mike Miller is.

[Charlie_S]

I'm sorry, but manu is absolutely an elite player. Maybe not as much now.

The way he's constantly underrated by so many fans is unbelievable. Manu is clearly the third best SG in the post-Jordan era behind Kobe and Wade, and people put him in the same sentence as Mike Miller? Wow.

[reapaman]

Manu is way way better than mike Miller, thats far from my point. And yea he is the #3 best sg post jordan but what does that mean? How may payers are elite in the nba? What defines elite to you? Are you saying he's capable of being at least a top 5 player overall in this league at least and capable of being the #1 guy in most situations? So you can build a legit contender in most situations with him as the center peice? I mean why was he put at sixth man if he was elite? Why not trade or bench parker and have manu run the show with duncan in the starting line up? I mean were talking about prime Manu in this case. Are we saying Parker is elite too?

The word elite gets thrown around to much in basketball. And I know guys are getting the max like crazy today but how many truely deserve the max? How many guys can actually be the #1 guy on a championship team that isn't set up like those detroit teams were you had a solid all around starter 5?

[falcon107]

A sixth man is not and likely will not be a max player.
NBA is full of max contracts given to good players, or once good players. But max contracts should only be for franchise players.
LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dwight, Durant and few more are those you can build a team around are max players. And paying max money to a good player doesn't make him a franchise player. If you take a good player and try to build a team around him, then your team may turn into a good team, but not a contender. Houston is attacking every player after Dwight failure, but this is how the game is, sometimes you need to be patient. Success only comes with patience, but sometimes with lots of money wasted.

[erudite23]

Harden is a great 6th man, and in today's league, he's the 3rd best player on a championship team. If he's the 2nd best player on your team, I don't think you hold a chance to win a title. Even the Pistons who didn't have superstars had three players clearly better than Harden (B.Wallace, G,Wallace and Billups) and I'd say Hamilton was as good if not better. Harden is worth $10-12M. At $15M you better be a superstar, top 10-15 player in the league.

Harden will be a better player than any of those players. And there's a great chance he becomes a top 10-15 player in the next few seasons.

You guys need to quit being fooled by window dressing. James Harden (and Manu Ginobili) are starters. They just happen to not be on the court when the game starts. If you take my meaning.

Harden has the potential to be a high volume AND high efficiency player scorer/facilitator. I would take him over any player currently on our team. I don't know if he can ever be the #1 on a championship team--its certainly possible he grows into that--but RIGHT NOW he's good enough to be the 2nd best.

[StocktonShorts]

I would take him over any player currently on our team.

I think many people would agree with this, especially those with an objective eye. We all know fans fall in love with their team's players and don't necessarily view them objectively, but the same thing happens to GMs.

We may never know what sort of deal the Jazz proposed to OKC, but my guess is that they wanted Kanter or Favors and we said 'no deal.'

[countrybama24]

Harden is worth $10-12M. At $15M you better be a superstar, top 10-15 player in the league.

I think Harden has become a little overrated. He benefited from the attention paid to KD and Russell, and really was awful in the finals. But anytime you can get an Olympian, you almost always have to do it.

Harden is the type of guy that ideally wouldn't command the max, but because of the dynamics of the CBA, has to get it. 95% of teams don't have the luxury of KD, Lebron, Dwight etc. They have to overpay for their stars, or someone else will. Would I overpay for Harden rather than stockpile mid-first rounds and hope to find a harden? Yes. Would I overpay Roy Hibbert to keep him instead of losing him for nothing? Yes.

I mean, I think he's better than:

Carmelo
Bosh
Hibbert
Eric Gordon
Amare
Joe Johnson
Rudy Gay
Anyone on our team (currently)

It's not about "worth" in a vacuum. It's about opportunity cost. If you keep stockpiling "perfectly valued assets," you'll probably never land a superstar if you're Utah, Houston, etc. The draft is too risky. For small markets, you gotta overpay to contend, unfortunately.

[StocktonShorts]

^^ well said.