Alex Kennedy say Big Al had a big role in Sloan's departure

[beefers1]

Does anyone have any data on how Al performs in pick-and-roll (or spot-up, just for the hell of it) situations? I love Al and he's one of the best post players in the NBA, but I'm not sure how well he fits in our system. We got some help this season in the form of spot-up shooters, but we've regressed considerably in other areas when Foye is on the floor, and Mo can't seem to stay healthy.

[BigAlymphoma]

Did you guys know Al Jefferson is 18th among centers in FG%? Combine that with not getting to the FT line and terrible defense, and I'm amazed that there are people out there that still think he's good.

[Inigo Montoya]

Did you guys know Al Jefferson is 18th among centers in FG%? Combine that with not getting to the FT line and terrible defense, and I'm amazed that there are people out there that still think he's good.

well, that's pretty misleading to phrase it this way, so let's take a look. i'm assuming you are taking the aforementioned data from here: http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/FieldGS.jsp?league=00&season=22012&conf=OVERALL&position=1&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

*notice that players that have the same FG% cause the rankings to tie and skip two places.


1. Tyson Chandler - only dunks, can't create his own offense, doesn't carry a team's offense. plays with jason kidd

2. DeAndre Jordan - only dunks, can't create his own offense, doesn't carry a team's offense. can't shoot FT, plays with CP3.

3. JaVale McGee - only dunks, can't create his own offense, doesn't carry a team's offense, doesn't start, can't beat kosta koufos for a starting job, plays with lawson and miller.

4. Dwight Howard - almost only dunks, can't shoot FT, plays with kobe, gasol and nash.

5. Robin Lopez - can't create his own offense, doesn't carry a team's offense, his team is a bottom feeder, plays with vasquez.

6. J.J. Hickson - doesn't carry a team's offense, limited offensively, almost only dunks, role player, plays with lillard.

7. Chris Bosh - not really a center, gets plenty of open looks, plays with wade + lebron and plenty of shooters in the east where there aren't many centers.

8. Al Horford - not really a center, plays in the east where there aren't many centers.

9. Marcin Gortat - doesn't carry a team's offense, his team is a bottom feeder, plays with dragic.

10. Kevin Garnett - not really a center, plays in the east where there aren't many centers, gets plenty of open looks, plays with pierce and rondo.

11. Omer Asik - almost only dunks\layup , can't create his own offense, doesn't carry a team's offense. can't shoot FT, plays with harden and plenty of good passers in a high scoring team.

11. Chris Kaman - his team is in worst shape than the jazz, worse record, lesser role in the offense compared to big al, plays with collison and under carlisle.

13. Brook Lopez - can't rebound, plays in the east where there aren't many centers, injured a lot, has similar team record as the jazz, doesn't affect his team's W-L (has yet to have a .500 season record or better), has more offensive talent around him, plays with johnson and dwill.

14. Nikola Pekovic - doesn't carry a team's offense, plays for adelman, plays with rubio.

15. Nikola Vucevic - doesn't carry a team's offense, plays in the east where there aren't many centers, his team has a worse record than the jazz.

16. Marc Gasol - plays with more talent, doesn't have to carry a team offense like al (3rd leading scorer on MEM), plays with conley.

17. Joakim Noah - doesn't carry a team's offense, plays in the east where there aren't many centers, plays for tibs, and usually with rose.

18. Al Jefferson - carries a team's offense, creates his own offense, plays in the west against better centers and big men, plays for ty, his point guard is usually mo who isn't a PG.

18. Anderson Varejao - gets hurt a lot, his team is a mess, doesn't carry a team's offense, plays in the east where there aren't many centers, plays with irving.

22. Greg Monroe - has yet to have a .500 or better record, his team has way worst record than the jazz. FG% lower than al's, plays in the east where there aren't many centers.

21. Spencer Hawes - role player, doesn't carry a team's offense, plays in the east where there aren't many centers, FG% lower than al's

22. Kevin Seraphin - doesn't carry a team's offense, plays in the east where there aren't many centers, his team is a mess, worst record than the jazz, FG% lower than al's.

23. DeMarcus Cousins - his team is a mess, worst record than the jazz, FG% lower than al's.

24. Roy Hibbert - plays in the east where there aren't many centers, doesn't carry a team's offense, FG% lower than al's, gives you an off the bench 20 MPG favors' numbers, while is a starter who plays 28 MPG, shoots 39% FG, getting paid a max contract.


Add to all of that that Al is ranked:

3rd in scoring,
5th in double-doubles,
5th in efficiency (!!!),
8th in assists,
6th in steals,
4th in pts\reb\asts,
2nd in FT%,
8th in rebounds for his position (out of 45),
25th (out of 44) in TO in the C position while he is one of the highest usage players who also plays more minutes than most (in fact, all but one player ranked under him in TO were bench players who played significantly less minutes. Chadler is the one exception, and al plays more minutes than him, is a way higher usage player and the difference is 0.1).

we need to appreciate what we got. we could do a lot worse than big al. because we see him every game, we are more aware of his weaknesses, while we are less aware of the shortcomings of the other players we see less. he is not nearly as bad is we make him out to be. in fact, he is a damn good player.

[Reckless]

Al uses possessions below league average. Nuff said?

he also turns the ball over WAY below league average. nuff said?

Very interesting Ingio, also interesting to note Stockton and Malone respectively lead the league in turnovers both for one year of their career. Malone showed the willingness to get others involved by passing the baskebtall in the post, maybe that's why he lasted here so long and why Al should be gone by the trade deadline before he can pass the black hole trait anymore onto poor Enes Kanter.

[Inigo Montoya]

Al uses possessions below league average. Nuff said?

he also turns the ball over WAY below league average. nuff said?

Very interesting Ingio, also interesting to note Stockton and Malone respectively lead the league in turnovers both for one year of their career. Malone showed the willingness to get others involved by passing the baskebtall in the post, maybe that's why he lasted here so long and why Al should be gone by the trade deadline before he can pass the black hole trait anymore onto poor Enes Kanter.

well, here is part of the problem right there - big al is no karl malone (or stockton), and we shouldn't treat him as such or expect him to play to that level. big al is a very good player, but he is not a hall of famer or even close, so we shouldn't judge him according to those standards. and let's cut him some slack - he is playing for a not so great coach, and with a not so great point guard (both understatements). malone played with a HOF coach and a HOF point guard.

you mentioned karl's willingness to get others involved by passing the ball - well, big al posts career highs in assists every year he's played with the jazz, and he currently ranks 8th at his position in that department. that kind of nullifies the black hole stigma he gets around here - not to mention that this year he really doesn't stop the ball nearly as much as in previous years. in fact, i would argue that us moving away from the way we played last year is a big part of the reason for how poorly we looked and played in many games this year, and it adversely affected the results in the W-L column. and i would also argue that if we were to play this year the same kind of offense as we did last year, with the current personnel and 3pt shooting - big al would average around 3 assists per game.

all i'm saying is that big al's shortcomings are magnified by us as jazz fans because we see him a lot more than other players in other teams. in reality, big al more than holds his own when compared to the other players in the league at his position. we got one of the better players in the league in the C position, and he gets undue\disproportional criticism\hate\blame.

btw, i'm a kanter guy - i like him a lot, but with 15MPG, he is ranked 15th in TO, and first in TO for 48MPG with 5 (that's first in the entire league, not just centers. btw, eric bledsoe who some people here are high on, is tied with him for 1st place out of 213 qualified players), and 38th in assists (34th per 48MPG).

[Klomp]

How does such a nice guy get blamed for so much?

"It's like going from a Toyota to a Bentley"

[Jazzfan12]

The Suns taught us that run-and-gun basketball doesn't get it done in the playoffs, even in it's best form.

The Jazz aren't choosing between a prime Steve Nash and Al Jefferson. I never said they were, and I hope that's not your best try to understand my point. The choices the Jazz do have involve giving shots to the likes of Mo Williams, Foye, and Hayward, or to Al Jefferson. I made the claim that successful playoff offenses need a legitimate post presence. Our usage percentage should reflect that, and so should our feasible future plans.

The Suns offense was awesome every year in the playoffs.

They came close to winning a title multiple times.

I think focusing on their offense instead of their defense is a questionable move. The better lesson to take from the Suns (if there is any) is that you need good defense to win a title.

Pretty sure Al is never going to be a core member of a good defensive team.

Also, the Heat and Thunder never postup, they seem to have had playoff success...

[StocktonShorts]

How does such a nice guy get blamed for so much?

"It's like going from a Toyota to a Bentley"

(looks at NW division standings)

[Inigo Montoya]

Pretty sure Al is never going to be a core member of a good defensive team.

if boozer can be a part of the best defense in the league (in some year), big al can also be a part of a good defensive team. i can't fault al for not being able to cover for the mistakes of a weak defensive back court of mo and foye.

[Luigi]

The Suns taught us that run-and-gun basketball doesn't get it done in the playoffs, even in it's best form.

The Jazz aren't choosing between a prime Steve Nash and Al Jefferson. I never said they were, and I hope that's not your best try to understand my point. The choices the Jazz do have involve giving shots to the likes of Mo Williams, Foye, and Hayward, or to Al Jefferson. I made the claim that successful playoff offenses need a legitimate post presence. Our usage percentage should reflect that, and so should our feasible future plans.

The Suns offense was awesome every year in the playoffs.

They came close to winning a title multiple times.

I think focusing on their offense instead of their defense is a questionable move. The better lesson to take from the Suns (if there is any) is that you need good defense to win a title.

Pretty sure Al is never going to be a core member of a good defensive team.

Also, the Heat and Thunder never postup, they seem to have had playoff success...

I agree, the bigger lesson from the Suns is the defensive one. But I don't think the two are entirely unrelated. A run-and-gun offense can lead to an unprepared defense because of the kind of shots that go up. Worse, it seems to go hand-in-hand with bad basketball priorities. That could just be an empirical accident, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were more to it than that.

They did well in the playoffs, but they didn't do as well as they should have from the regular season success they had. Again, this isn't about choosing between Jefferson and Nash, or between '05 Phoenix and '13 Utah. This is about choosing styles of play.

Yes, Al is a defensive laibility, but he's no worse than many of our other players, and his size tips the scales in his favor over the other guys we've got. Jefferson and Favors have a better shot at defending the elite team's bigs than Millsap and Favors do. Getting bounced by LA's bigs year after year has shown us the need for size.

The Heat are a unique team, and a model we can't hope to duplicate. The Thunder suffer from not having a post presence. Pau could make them favorites to win it all. But I don't want to get mixed up in too many individual teams here. My point about Phoenix wasn't really about particular players, or even particular teams. I meant it to illustrate a more general point about priorities for playoff basketball. But once that point is established, I think Al starts to make more sense.

[millslapper]

Pretty sure Al is never going to be a core member of a good defensive team.

if boozer can be a part of the best defense in the league (in some year), big al can also be a part of a good defensive team. i can't fault al for not being able to cover for the mistakes of a weak defensive back court of mo and foye.

Don't forget: Boozer had Rose, Brewer, Deng and Noah around him, which is probably the best defensive lineup of the last decade.

Big Al would need Holiday, Hayward, Igoudala and Favors around him. That seems not possible.

[reapaman]

Pretty sure Al is never going to be a core member of a good defensive team.

if boozer can be a part of the best defense in the league (in some year), big al can also be a part of a good defensive team. i can't fault al for not being able to cover for the mistakes of a weak defensive back court of mo and foye.

Don't forget: Boozer had Rose, Brewer, Deng and Noah around him, which is probably the best defensive lineup of the last decade.

Big Al would need Holiday, Hayward, Igoudala and Favors around him. That seems not possible.

I disagree because rose's defense isn't the greatest by any stretch and a guy like brewer isn't hard to find (with that said hayward defense is no good for me). I think it can be done and this was a line up I had in mind that can cover Al's weakneses (as well as tyreke inability to shoot).

Cj Mccollum
T.Evans
C. Lee or A. Afflalo
Jefferson
Favors

I think it shouldn't be too hard to get that lineup. Now getting a taj gibson and a omer asik off the bench is a different story but I think that can be done too just have to think about it.

[Purch]

Wait why do people actualy belive Alex Kennedy? He's one of the least credible sources in the Nba.

I mean he completely made up the Cleveland-La-Orlando trade situation where Bynum was supposed to be a Cav because of his sources this summer, and wasted everyones time.

Right after Wojo ( who's actually credible) claimed that there were no legitimate talks between the Cavs and Lakers.

And Alex does this crap all the time. He tries to create compelling stories that have no basis.

Lets not talk about his role in the false rumors during the Dwightmare saga

[millslapper]

@reapaman:

i really like your "free kendall marshall" signature, but i don't agree with you on your lineup, because it would be to small at the 2 and 3 and i dont think that guys like brewer are easy to find. i am speaking of the "prime-brewer" who was defending hard, hustling, cutting, working the baseline and was a decent midrange shooter.

[reapaman]

I don't agree with you on your lineup, because it would be to small at the 2 and 3

Too small? why? Those guys (meaning evans and Lee/affalo) have shown that they can guard most wings on a consistent basis. Now if you mean they may struggle versus versitile jump shooting wings (which is pretty much kobe and durant) or wings that post up (which is pretty much Lebron and Melo) then Hayward can start for Lee/Afflalo for those games since he's good at that due to his size and length but that situation won't happen to often.

I just don't like hayward starting every game because most guys don't do those things. They typically attack the basket or come off of a screen and he is horrible at defending that. Other than that which is an easily fixable problem since we will still have hayward in this scenario (he would be sixth man btw), I don't see how their size will be a problem.

[Jazzfan12]

Is there really anything to suggest that Courtney Lee or Tyreke Evans are actually good defenders?

Lee's teams have been pretty average defensively and get worse defensively when he's on the court. Tyreke's teams are consistently terrible defensively.

[Luigi]

Jefferson is a better defender than Boozer. Neither are good, but Jefferson's size helps him.

Boozer was a better defensive rebounder, though.