Future Free Agent Thread

[KqWIN]

So we talk all the time about needing shot creation/scoring, yet the best scorer available this summer hardly gets discussed. Like it or not, it's Julius Randle. He's a funky player and still an awkward fit with Gobert, but he is legitimately and efficient, high volume scorer. He's much, much better scorer than Donovan Mitchell for example.

I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him. Defensively he is pretty bad, but he has no physical limitations and can improve with some coaching.

Just a thought....He's averaging 20/9/3 on 61% TS.

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^noone impresed by our organization

[Inigo Montoya]

Yes there's definitely times players have refused to come here but my point was it's not like we've had so many super appealing teams to join that could both offer big money and a chance on being on a very good team. We actually have that after this year. There's players all around that didn't want to go certain places. And even today players can have preference pf where to go but sometimes that's not always based on Utah being Utah. Maybe they think the team is too deep and not enough minutes, style of play, difficulty of the west in general but yes, you will have certain players who won't like the weather, city, people, nightlife scene. Small markets as a whole have less appeal to a lot of players. You get players refusing to workout in the draft for pretty much any team imaginable. Jazz do best with basketball junkies and players who compete day in and day out. I don't think you can write utah out on the FAs just yet. Also it depends on where we finish in the seeding, assuming we make playoffs.

Ok, then when will be the time to write Utah off on top free agents, officially? After this offseason? The next one? When and what would have to happen to make you say, "you know what? I get it, the big fish don't want to come to Utah"?

The Jazz can always sign role players. They haven't been able to sign a star in free agent (or trade for one, for that matter)...ever.

[Luigi]

Boozer and Okur made all star teams. But that’t not the point I think. The Jazz could be more aggressive in attracting talent to Utah. They’re more conservative, than say, OKC. It’s the model as much as the destination that’s the problem.

That being said, who could we sign this summer that would be better than Rubio and Favors?

[dr0welf]

KD is frustrated with the press and **therefor wants to play again in a smaller market. KD to Utah!!!

**assumption off his frustration with the press

[dr0welf]

I would love us to get Bogdanovic this offseason. If we don't get KD of course.

[CAE15]

Yes there's definitely times players have refused to come here but my point was it's not like we've had so many super appealing teams to join that could both offer big money and a chance on being on a very good team. We actually have that after this year. There's players all around that didn't want to go certain places. And even today players can have preference pf where to go but sometimes that's not always based on Utah being Utah. Maybe they think the team is too deep and not enough minutes, style of play, difficulty of the west in general but yes, you will have certain players who won't like the weather, city, people, nightlife scene. Small markets as a whole have less appeal to a lot of players. You get players refusing to workout in the draft for pretty much any team imaginable. Jazz do best with basketball junkies and players who compete day in and day out. I don't think you can write utah out on the FAs just yet. Also it depends on where we finish in the seeding, assuming we make playoffs.

Ok, then when will be the time to write Utah off on top free agents, officially? After this offseason? The next one? When and what would have to happen to make you say, "you know what? I get it, the big fish don't want to come to Utah"?

The Jazz can always sign role players. They haven't been able to sign a star in free agent (or trade for one, for that matter)...ever.

If we finish say top 4 in the west and put in a competitive 2nd round series and we still don't get any interest.. then yeah maybe we can write FAs off. But trends are made to be broken. Porter was said to have preferred Utah to the Nets offer sheet. But Hayward took his time. There was also a report of Lowry being interested in Utah had Hayward stayed. Mirotic openly expressed his desire to come to Utah. Teodosic had utah on his short list. These aren't world class players but it's a step. Does Lillard potentially have interest in 2021? He has said he'd play in Utah. Jazz can offer a max contract pretty much out the gate of free agency. Others can too but you could definitely argue that the Jazz or Pacers have the best teams with a full MAX slot. Not saying it happens. But we haven't really been in this position if we show well in the playoffs this year.

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[KqWIN]

Here's a question...why is Devin Booker seen in such a different light than Julius Randle?

[SoCalJazzFan]

Here's a question...why is Devin Booker seen in such a different light than Julius Randle?

Good question.

I wonder if Favors can up his 3pt%. If so, he becomes so much more valuable.

To your question, why is everyone so enamored with Booker, but Brogdan flies under the radar? He is seriously undervalued.

[KqWIN]

Here's a question...why is Devin Booker seen in such a different light than Julius Randle?

Good question.

I wonder if Favors can up his 3pt%. If so, he becomes so much more valuable.

To your question, why is everyone so enamored with Booker, but Brogdan flies under the radar? He is seriously undervalued.

I think it's more obvious with Booker and Brogdon. Booker puts up pretty stats while Brogdon's basic numbers are run of the mill.
25/4/7 is always going to be more enamoring than 15/5/3...and there's nothing really wrong with that.

The reason I brought up Randle is because he also puts up the pretty numbers. If Randle in Booker's position in PHX, he'd probably be averaging something ridiculous like 22/12/4 and the Suns would still have 11 wins. The difference is that instead of having an $9M player option this summer, Randle might be at the beginning of a $100M contract as the face of the franchise like Booker.

Obviously it's not a totally fair comparison because Booker is a guard and Randle is a big...but it just has me thinking. Randle is a huge talent and always been one. He's already one of the best scorers in the league due to sheer force and talent despite not having a high BBIQ. Defensively, he is bad, but he has good physical tools. He doesn't have long arms to be a good rim protector, but he's strong as hell and has decent feet on the perimeter.

We always talk about taking a chance on this guy or that guy...why not Randle? He's never been a part of a good program. Everywhere he goes there is huge drama, but he's not involved in any of it. If we believe in Quin and his coaching staff's ability to improve players this is the type of player we should be looking at. He already has value as a scoring big man who can lead the bench. What happens if he improves his jumper and/or becomes a smarter player?

[dr0welf]

I think it's more obvious with Booker and Brogdon. Booker puts up pretty stats while Brogdon's basic numbers are run of the mill.
25/4/7 is always going to be more enamoring than 15/5/3...and there's nothing really wrong with that.

The reason I brought up Randle is because he also puts up the pretty numbers. If Randle in Booker's position in PHX, he'd probably be averaging something ridiculous like 22/12/4 and the Suns would still have 11 wins. The difference is that instead of having an $9M player option this summer, Randle might be at the beginning of a $100M contract as the face of the franchise like Booker.

Obviously it's not a totally fair comparison because Booker is a guard and Randle is a big...but it just has me thinking. Randle is a huge talent and always been one. He's already one of the best scorers in the league due to sheer force and talent despite not having a high BBIQ. Defensively, he is bad, but he has good physical tools. He doesn't have long arms to be a good rim protector, but he's strong as hell and has decent feet on the perimeter.

We always talk about taking a chance on this guy or that guy...why not Randle? He's never been a part of a good program. Everywhere he goes there is huge drama, but he's not involved in any of it. If we believe in Quin and his coaching staff's ability to improve players this is the type of player we should be looking at. He already has value as a scoring big man who can lead the bench. What happens if he improves his jumper and/or becomes a smarter player?

His talent level doesn't overcome his low BBIQ. He is a talent and on a bad team he will put up great numbers. But on a well run team where you have to react based on court situations - switching, spacing, recognizing picks, over/under, clock etc; you need hi BBIQ to be successful in a team game. Quin runs a system where inches matter. Spacing is key and recognizing situations quickly and effectively leave you on the court. Burks and Hood struggled here and I think both have a higher BBIQ then Randle.

Now if you put Randle with Lebron where all he has to do is sit their and watch Lebron work and clean up any garbage. Then he would be a great complimentary player.

[Daddy 801]

So we talk all the time about needing shot creation/scoring, yet the best scorer available this summer hardly gets discussed. Like it or not, it's Julius Randle. He's a funky player and still an awkward fit with Gobert, but he is legitimately and efficient, high volume scorer. He's much, much better scorer than Donovan Mitchell for example.

I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him. Defensively he is pretty bad, but he has no physical limitations and can improve with some coaching.

Just a thought....He's averaging 20/9/3 on 61% TS.

I haven’t watched him enough to have a really well informed opinion. But looking at his stats I get the feeling he would end up being similar to Favs. Another PF back up C that can’t stretch the floor. Do you think this is true? Is he a creator and I’m missing something?

[Inigo Montoya]

I'm not entirely opposed to taking a chance on Randle but if we keep talking about bringing in pieces that fit, then Randle isn't a great fit next to Gobert. Now, if you wanted to play him off the bench, then maybe, but he's not going to cost 9M. He has a player option for next season and he's likely to decline it since he has greatly over-performed his current contract. He'd be a good addition from a talent perspective more than a fit perspective.

[dr0welf]

Man I like Marcus Morris, after the loss to LAC last night he called out his team.

From ESPN:

The veteran forward blamed the loss on the team's lack of cohesion, calling the Celtics' effort "unacceptable" and saying Boston hasn't had fun while playing in a long time.

"I mean, for me, it's not really about the loss," Morris said. "It's about the attitude that we're playing with. Guys are hanging their head. It's just not fun, it's not fun. We're not competing at a high level. Even when we're winning it's still not fun. I just don't see the joy in the game.

"I watch all these other teams in the league, guys up on the bench, up on the court; they're doing stuff that looks like they're enjoying their teammate's success, they're enjoying everything and they're playing together. And when I look at us, I just see a bunch of individuals."

Morris said there are no more excuses with the trade deadline behind them.

"For us to be a championship team, man, this s--- has to change," he said. "We have to genuinely want to win. That has to be the first goal. Whatever it takes, I'm with it. If you want to take me out the lineup and get some juice in it, I'm with it. But I'm trying to win. That's the goal. Trade deadline's over. This is the team we're rocking with. This is what we're going with. So, at the end of the day, man -- it's unacceptable what we did tonight. It's unacceptable for what we did with a team of our caliber."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25961731/clippers-come-back-28-points-kyrie-irving-exits-game-knee-sprain

I think this should have been handled in the locker room, but I like the attitude. The Jazz are one of those teams where the players are having fun. Morris wants to be a part of that, might be a target for us this offseason as I believe he is on the last year of his contract.

Maybe we can get Marcus as our stretch 4?

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Bojan Bogdanovic anybody? That is if we miss on other big FAs?

Kelly Oubre is another one I wouldn't mind taking a shot at. I wonder what's the offer PHX wouldn't match? He is an upside play. Get him and hope our coaching staff is able to refine his skill and unleash his length and athleticism on the league with full force?

[KqWIN]

I have always been vocal about the fit issues with Favors/Gobert, and I think there is some overall there with Randle. But there are some key differences that make me believe it can work.

1) Shot creation
2) Ball Handling
3) Passing
4) Ability to beat switches

These are all areas that Randle far exceeds Favors. The shooting is an issue for Favors, but in general he has zero -perimeter skills and can't use his size to take advantage of smaller matchups. Randle will absolutely destroy you if you put a smaller player on him and if you double him, he can pass out of it. Randle has all the perimeter and playmaking skills except for shooting.

He's also just 24 with lots of room to improve. At worst, he's a highly productive bench player who provides greatly needed shot creation and scoring off the bench. But if his game improves and matures, he can be an all star.

[stitches]

I have always been vocal about the fit issues with Favors/Gobert, and I think there is some overall there with Randle. But there are some key differences that make me believe it can work.

1) Shot creation
2) Ball Handling
3) Passing
4) Ability to beat switches

These are all areas that Randle far exceeds Favors. The shooting is an issue for Favors, but in general he has zero -perimeter skills and can't use his size to take advantage of smaller matchups. Randle will absolutely destroy you if you put a smaller player on him and if you double him, he can pass out of it. Randle has all the perimeter and playmaking skills except for shooting.

He's also just 24 with lots of room to improve. At worst, he's a highly productive bench player who provides greatly needed shot creation and scoring off the bench. But if his game improves and matures, he can be an all star.

That's my fear with him - that he's not good enough to mask his weaknesses and (especially when paired with another big who cannot shoot) will ultimately be 6th man type but of the big variety. And that's quite honestly the worst way you can spend your money. I would much rather spend it on wings who can shoot than on another big who cannot.

You've done this calculus before on this forum - what's the point of a big if he doesn't do the bigs things well? He doesn't rebound, he doesn't defend... sure he can bully switches... but so can Kanter.

[KqWIN]

I have always been vocal about the fit issues with Favors/Gobert, and I think there is some overall there with Randle. But there are some key differences that make me believe it can work.

1) Shot creation
2) Ball Handling
3) Passing
4) Ability to beat switches

These are all areas that Randle far exceeds Favors. The shooting is an issue for Favors, but in general he has zero -perimeter skills and can't use his size to take advantage of smaller matchups. Randle will absolutely destroy you if you put a smaller player on him and if you double him, he can pass out of it. Randle has all the perimeter and playmaking skills except for shooting.

He's also just 24 with lots of room to improve. At worst, he's a highly productive bench player who provides greatly needed shot creation and scoring off the bench. But if his game improves and matures, he can be an all star.

That's my fear with him - that he's not good enough to mask his weaknesses and (especially when paired with another big who cannot shoot) will ultimately be 6th man type but of the big variety. And that's quite honestly the worst way you can spend your money. I would much rather spend it on wings who can shoot than on another big who cannot.

You've done this calculus before on this forum - what's the point of a big if he doesn't do the bigs things well? He doesn't rebound, he doesn't defend... sure he can bully switches... but so can Kanter.

He can rebound and offensively he is A+ at the big man stuff. His ability to bully switches and pass out of double teams makes him much more viable as a 4 next to Gobert than Favors. The best thing Favors can do with Gobert is stand in a corner where he is the worst three point shooter in the league. Randle can be the centerpiece of the offense whenever he's in. He'd be the best scorer on the team and it's not really that close. He's far ahead of Mitchell.

Randle has played 283 minutes with either Okafor or Diallo on the court. In those minutes he has 31% USG and 64% TS. That's pretty absurd.

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He can rebound and offensively he is A+ at the big man stuff. His ability to bully switches and pass out of double teams makes him much more viable as a 4 next to Gobert than Favors. The best thing Favors can do with Gobert is stand in a corner where he is the worst three point shooter in the league. Randle can be the centerpiece of the offense whenever he's in. He'd be the best scorer on the team and it's not really that close. He's far ahead of Mitchell.

Randle has played 283 minutes with either Okafor or Diallo on the court. In those minutes he has 31% USG and 64% TS. That's pretty absurd.

I think you are massively overrating his offensive game. Also you are quoting some incredibly small samples. A+ offensively is quite the statement... "offensive centerpiece"... damn. I don't know if I would call even AD A+ offensively. And he's a much better offensive player than Randle. I don't think Randle would be anywhere close to our best scorer in our system. Especially with Gobert stacking the paint and with Rubio not being a threat. You've seen our system. Can you imagine Randle being allowed to do what he does both by Quin and by opponents when they can stack the paint much more easily against our personnel?

[KqWIN]

He can rebound and offensively he is A+ at the big man stuff. His ability to bully switches and pass out of double teams makes him much more viable as a 4 next to Gobert than Favors. The best thing Favors can do with Gobert is stand in a corner where he is the worst three point shooter in the league. Randle can be the centerpiece of the offense whenever he's in. He'd be the best scorer on the team and it's not really that close. He's far ahead of Mitchell.

Randle has played 283 minutes with either Okafor or Diallo on the court. In those minutes he has 31% USG and 64% TS. That's pretty absurd.

I think you are massively overrating his offensive game. Also you are quoting some incredibly small samples. A+ offensively is quite the statement... "offensive centerpiece"... damn. I don't know if I would call even AD A+ offensively. And he's a much better offensive player than Randle. I don't think Randle would be anywhere close to our best scorer in our system. Especially with Gobert stacking the paint and with Rubio not being a threat. You've seen our system. Can you imagine Randle being allowed to do what he does both by Quin and by opponents when they can stack the paint much more easily against our personnel?

He would be on our roster, that's what I meant. Mitchell is the current offensive centerpiece, and he's one of the least efficient players in the entire league with his usage. Only Westbrook is worse. It's a low bar, but yes, I do think Randle would be one of the focal points of our offense. Especially when the #2 is a race between Rubio and Exum.

Fact is, we do need players who can create their own offense. Randle is better at doing that than any other player we can realistically get, and he's not a finished product. I would much rather take a chance on Randle at $18M than run it back with Favors. We all love Favors as a human being, but we know his limits and he doesn't have upwards potential.