Shams: Jazz trade for Conley...

[KqWIN]

Lets talk about some basketball rather than about the contract/compensation/salary cap stuff:

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I love Conley's fit with this team. He's a great player and almost a perfect fit for what Quin runs on offense.

Mike Conley play type numbers:

Pick and Roll Ball Handler - 8.4 Poss/gm (10th in NBA), 0.96 PPP (80.9 percentile)
Isolation - 1.8 Poss/gm , 1.03 PPP (82.4 percentile)
Handoff - 1.5 Poss/gm, 1.03 PPP (72.4 percentile)
Spot Up - 2.4 Poss/GM, 1.14 PPP (85.9 percentile)
Off Screen - 2.0 Pos/gm (T22 in NBA), 1.11 PPP (85.8 percentile)

He's good at everything he does. How will this fit into our existing offense.

Pick and Roll

Mitchell - 11.1 Poss/gm (3rd in NBA), 0.95 PPP (78.7 percentile)
Rubio - 5.0 Poss/gm, 0.78 PPP (38.9 percentile)
Ingles - 4.0 Poss/gm, 0.76 PPP (35.3 percentile)

Spot Up

Mitchell - 3.0 Poss/gm, 1.23 PPP (93.3 percentile)
Rubio - 3.6 Poss/gm, 0.89 PPP (30.3 percentile)
Ingles - 2.9 Poss/gm, 1.13 PPP (82.6 percentile)


The Jazz now have two of the top pick and roll scorers in the league. All of Rubio's PnR possessions will be replaced by Conley. We're going from one of the worst to one of the best. Mitchell, Conley, and Ingles will likely all see their counts down, but in theory those should shift over to spot ups as they play more off the ball. All three are very good spot up shooters.

Conley is great everywhere and will replace Rubio's possessions, who is bad everywhere. We'll see Mitchell do less on the ball where he is good, and more off the ball where he is elite. Ingles will see more spot up chances and won't have to be in the PnR as much where he is incredibly turnover prone.

We lose a lot with Jae and Korver. But we should be a top 10 offense next season with good health. Top 3 defense, top 10 offense...that's a 55 win team.

[Luigi]

But again, who were they 100% sure they could get that was as good or better to use that space on?

GO JAZZ!

That's my attitude. I got my move. Now I get to see how it goes. It's a wide open league this year, it really is.

The Warriors are out. Rockets crumbling.

I think the rest, even the Leonard Raptors, aren't necessarily beating the Jazz in a 7 game series last season. Add Conley, and another year to MItchell, and we could do some real damage if it works.

I mean, people might even start saying Gobert has a two way game when he sets picks for Conley all season.

[Jazzy13]

Im on the side where I really like this move. Cant believe what Im seeing here.
We didnt give up much at all for a very good player. You just dont see guys like this moved for what we gave up. People are saying we gave up 3 1st rd picks? Seriously?

We keep the next 2 yrs picks to pick up rookie deals for a hopeful title run with our small window.
Pick in 22 is highly likely to be a late rounder.

Conley provides exactly what we need in our offense. He can hit the open 3 and finish around the basket while also still dishing out enough dimes. Hes also quite a decent finisher with his right on his drives.

Im SUPER excited about this team with whats happening to Hou/GS (our biggest humps to get over)

[stitches]

Good analysis KqWIN. Yeah... this was one of the sticking points for me when I was looking at our numbers from last year - only Mitchell had anything resembling efficient on-ball offense, while everyone else was horrendous. We desperately needed someone to help him shouldering the load and setting him up for some of the playtypes he's even better at.

Conley is a great player and amazing fit if he keeps playing like that and stays healthy.

[Luigi]

Is Exum still looking at backup pg duties? The finishing transactions might be looking for that 3rd string pg, depending on what we expect from Exum and Neto this season.

[KqWIN]

Good analysis KqWIN. Yeah... this was one of the sticking points for me when I was looking at our numbers from last year - only Mitchell had anything resembling efficient on-ball offense, while everyone else was horrendous. We desperately needed someone to help him shouldering the load and setting him up for some of the playtypes he's even better at.

Conley is a great player and amazing fit if he keeps playing like that and stays healthy.

Mitchell was really good in the half court. I don't think we give him enough credit for that. He's on par with a lot of efficient, star players. But the difference is that Mitchell sucks in transition and has to do so much of the difficult stuff. Doing the difficult things will kill your efficiency even if you're good at it.

Conley will help him a lot. Mitchell's shots will be so much easier because Conley is a threat. If he can figure out the transition thing, he could be due for a huge year. Something like 25/5/5 on above average efficiency.

[tleikheen]

Good riddance and good luck Crowder and Korver and plz take Neto, Sefalosha ,and Ekpe with you.
PG) Conley 30mpg / Exum 18 mpg
SG) DM 32 mpg / Exum 10 mpg
SF) Ingles 28 mpg / O'Neale 20 mpg
PF) Favors 16 mpg / ?????
C) Gobert 32 mpg / Favors 16 mpg

Jazz need to add a SF/PF player which I think is their #1 focus

Fingers Xed for …….. SF) Josh Jackson 6'8" 22 y o or SF/PF) Mario Hezonja 6'8" 24 y o

Gobert covers for a lot of mistakes defensively but I'm tired of it being for slow unathletic players and rather be for younger players on the rise. Jazz need players that can grow with DM ,Exum and be part of the team after the rental of Conley is over.

[stitches]

Good analysis KqWIN. Yeah... this was one of the sticking points for me when I was looking at our numbers from last year - only Mitchell had anything resembling efficient on-ball offense, while everyone else was horrendous. We desperately needed someone to help him shouldering the load and setting him up for some of the playtypes he's even better at.

Conley is a great player and amazing fit if he keeps playing like that and stays healthy.

Mitchell was really good in the half court. I don't think we give him enough credit for that. He's on par with a lot of efficient, star players. But the difference is that Mitchell sucks in transition and has to do so much of the difficult stuff. Doing the difficult things will kill your efficiency even if you're good at it.

Conley will help him a lot. Mitchell's shots will be so much easier because Conley is a threat. If he can figure out the transition thing, he could be due for a huge year. Something like 25/5/5 on above average efficiency.

We need Mitchell to turn into 3d year Wade for us to have a chance at a title. Conley will help some, but Mitchell needs to improve some things in his game too.

[Luigi]

Im SUPER excited about this team with whats happening to Hou/GS (our biggest humps to get over)

This is what's on my mind, too. I think it's clear that Houston and Golden State were the best two teams the last 2 years. The rest of us have been very very close. I think that even includes the Leonard Raptors.

Denver, Portland, Thunder, Spurs are all right there. I don't think they have many moves they can make this summer though. Lakers are going to be thin, we'll have to wait an see though. Clippers could move up, but who knows?

Raptors had crazy injury luck to win it, and were evenly matched with the 76ers. 6ers either run in back, or lose assets. Bucks either run it back, or lose assets. Celtics falling apart. Indy could make a move. Nets, too.

But it really is wide open. I'm glad we spend a mediocre late first now, and another in 2022 for a major upgrade to the offense. If it works, it could be a very fun season.

[sipclip]

I will say this, I think Conley is the 6th best point guard in the league right now (behind Curry, Lillard, Kemba, Jrue, and Irving, in that order) ... so if that evaluation is correct maybe I'm wrong and this is a good trade. I just don't like what a short term deal this is. You basically have to hope he has Steve Nash's trajectory (best years: 30-37). Conley has had his two best years in two of the last three seasons (missed one) so there is hope that he's actually better - especially in a different system that has two amazing PnR threats and a dynamic backcourt scorer.

He is not the 6th best pg in the nba.

Curry
Westbrook
Lillard
Kemba
Jrue
Irving
Russell
Trae Young
Ben Simmons
Lowry
CP

Those are 10 players right there that I view as better than Conley. Then you have the youngsters in Fox and Murray that I expect to surpass him by next year.

[Luigi]

Good analysis KqWIN. Yeah... this was one of the sticking points for me when I was looking at our numbers from last year - only Mitchell had anything resembling efficient on-ball offense, while everyone else was horrendous. We desperately needed someone to help him shouldering the load and setting him up for some of the playtypes he's even better at.

Conley is a great player and amazing fit if he keeps playing like that and stays healthy.

Mitchell was really good in the half court. I don't think we give him enough credit for that. He's on par with a lot of efficient, star players. But the difference is that Mitchell sucks in transition and has to do so much of the difficult stuff. Doing the difficult things will kill your efficiency even if you're good at it.

Conley will help him a lot. Mitchell's shots will be so much easier because Conley is a threat. If he can figure out the transition thing, he could be due for a huge year. Something like 25/5/5 on above average efficiency.

We need Mitchell to turn into 3d year Wade for us to have a chance at a title. Conley will help some, but Mitchell needs to improve some things in his game too.

If Mitchell doesn't take a step forward, we'll all be disappointed. There's nothing to build around if he doesn't keep improving, Conley or not. But I'm glad he'll have a proper running mate to make it that much easier. The timeline looks good to me.

[KqWIN]

As much as I've made fun of the 4 situation, I'm bullish on Niang. I think he'll establish himself as a rotation player...but that might fall apart in the playoffs. We can play Royce a lot at the 4 if we're willing, but I'm not sure if we have enough guys. If we're playing Royce/Ingles a lot at the 4 then we need someone to play more wing minutes. That would have to be Exum.

Playoff guys:

1. Gobert
2. Mitchell
3. Conley
4. Ingles
5. O'neale
6. Favors
7. Exum
8. Niang

That is real shaky at the end...

[Luigi]

I will say this, I think Conley is the 6th best point guard in the league right now (behind Curry, Lillard, Kemba, Jrue, and Irving, in that order) ... so if that evaluation is correct maybe I'm wrong and this is a good trade. I just don't like what a short term deal this is. You basically have to hope he has Steve Nash's trajectory (best years: 30-37). Conley has had his two best years in two of the last three seasons (missed one) so there is hope that he's actually better - especially in a different system that has two amazing PnR threats and a dynamic backcourt scorer.

He is not the 6th best pg in the nba.

Curry
Westbrook
Lillard
Kemba
Jrue
Irving
Russell
Trae Young
Ben Simmons
Lowry
CP

Those are 10 players right there that I view as better than Conley. Then you have the youngsters in Fox and Murray that I expect to surpass him by next year.

That's fair.

But Conley just has to be the third best player on the team. We should be comparing him to third options.

[sipclip]

[quote="JazzyPhinz":****]Im on the side where I really like this move. Cant believe what Im seeing here.
We didnt give up much at all for a very good player. You just dont see guys like this moved for what we gave up. People are saying we gave up 3 1st rd picks? Seriously?

We keep the next 2 yrs picks to pick up rookie deals for a hopeful title run with our small window.
Pick in 22 is highly likely to be a late rounder.

Conley provides exactly what we need in our offense. He can hit the open 3 and finish around the basket while also still dishing out enough dimes. Hes also quite a decent finisher with his right on his drives.

Im SUPER excited about this team with whats happening to Hou/GS (our biggest humps to get over)[/quote:****]

Neither of those teams are our biggest hump to get over. That hump has been replaced by the nuggets, lakers, blazers and soon to be the clippers after free agency hits. Also the mavs could make a massive rise with the addition of KP and a key free agent. Overall the west is going to look a hell of a lot scarier in 3 weeks after free agency hits.

[Luigi]

Neither of those teams are our biggest hump to get over. That hump has been replaced by the nuggets, lakers, blazers and soon to be the clippers after free agency hits. Also the mavs could make a massive rise with the addition of KP and a key free agent. Overall the west is going to look a hell of a lot scarier in 3 weeks after free agency hits.

I forgot about the Mavs. We'll see on them.

But surely the Warriors and Rockets have been the top 2 teams in the league the last two seasons, no? I think they've had a pretty big gap on the competition.

After that, we have a bunch of teams super close to each other with us in the mix. And besides Clippers and Indy, I don't think anyone has anywhere to turn to make big improvements. Some will take small steps back. Conley might be the difference there for us.

[sipclip]

I will say this, I think Conley is the 6th best point guard in the league right now (behind Curry, Lillard, Kemba, Jrue, and Irving, in that order) ... so if that evaluation is correct maybe I'm wrong and this is a good trade. I just don't like what a short term deal this is. You basically have to hope he has Steve Nash's trajectory (best years: 30-37). Conley has had his two best years in two of the last three seasons (missed one) so there is hope that he's actually better - especially in a different system that has two amazing PnR threats and a dynamic backcourt scorer.

He is not the 6th best pg in the nba.

Curry
Westbrook
Lillard
Kemba
Jrue
Irving
Russell
Trae Young
Ben Simmons
Lowry
CP

Those are 10 players right there that I view as better than Conley. Then you have the youngsters in Fox and Murray that I expect to surpass him by next year.

That's fair.

But if he just has to be the third best player on the team. We should be comparing him to third options.

The problem is our so called top 2 players at this point are extremely flawed. Gobert is a complete liability against a certain style of basketball and Mitchell at this point is simply an undersized shooting guard with a really shaky outside shot. When your top 2 guys are that flawed I think you need elite depth to make up for it. Also the window is so damn tight now to win but we have no other assets to get better and I don't trust Lindsey and Zanik in free agency to this point. Hopefully they prove me wrong but I think odds are we end up signing a bunch of vets in their 30's that are well past their prime.

[KDBG]

This whole board is manic depressive,

Accepting reality, "Oh, Conley is the ****".

[Luigi]

He is not the 6th best pg in the nba.

Curry
Westbrook
Lillard
Kemba
Jrue
Irving
Russell
Trae Young
Ben Simmons
Lowry
CP

Those are 10 players right there that I view as better than Conley. Then you have the youngsters in Fox and Murray that I expect to surpass him by next year.

That's fair.

But if he just has to be the third best player on the team. We should be comparing him to third options.

The problem is our so called top 2 players at this point are extremely flawed. Gobert is a complete liability against a certain style of basketball and Mitchell at this point is simply an undersized shooting guard with a really shaky outside shot. When your top 2 guys are that flawed I think you need elite depth to make up for it. Also the window is so damn tight now to win but we have no other assets to get better and I don't trust Lindsey and Zanik in free agency to this point. Hopefully they prove me wrong but I think odds are we end up signing a bunch of vets in their 30's that are well past their prime.

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. If you're not in on Mitchell and Gobert, this looks like a mistake.

But I wanna see them push the envelope during Mitchell's rookie contract. This seems like the best option to me. Could work out. All we really lost was a shot at a pick in a weak draft tomorrow, and then a probably late 2022 first. I won't miss much for having a point guard with a real life jump shot. Plus, I think this will show us a lot about how viable Mitchell is. If he can't make it to the next level with a proper backcourt running mate, maybe it is time to move on from him.

[babyjax13]

I will say this, I think Conley is the 6th best point guard in the league right now (behind Curry, Lillard, Kemba, Jrue, and Irving, in that order) ... so if that evaluation is correct maybe I'm wrong and this is a good trade. I just don't like what a short term deal this is. You basically have to hope he has Steve Nash's trajectory (best years: 30-37). Conley has had his two best years in two of the last three seasons (missed one) so there is hope that he's actually better - especially in a different system that has two amazing PnR threats and a dynamic backcourt scorer.

He is not the 6th best pg in the nba.

Curry
Westbrook
Lillard
Kemba
Jrue
Irving
Russell
Trae Young
Ben Simmons
Lowry
CP

Those are 10 players right there that I view as better than Conley. Then you have the youngsters in Fox and Murray that I expect to surpass him by next year.

Right now he is better than Russell, Young, Lowry, and Paul, and I wouldn't call Simmons a point guard, but if you do ... 7th. Next year Russell and Young could be better, but as of today - that's just not the case.

[KDBG]

If we come out with Conley, Favors, and depth, I'll be happy.

It's not even close to standing pat. We know Conley has just a few years left. This is Joe Johnson on steroids. The FO believes that Mitchell and Gobert are true superstars. We just had to surround them.