Future Free Agent Thread

[sipclip]

This is going to be the pick that haunts us for years. I actually asked Lindsey about it at the Nevada game against the utes this year and the only thing he would say is that they really like Grayson's upside.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for some of those decisions. I have no idea how the GM that made the Gobert and Mitchell picks is the same one that made the Grayson Allen and Tony Bradley picks, hell even Trey Lyles... those are just mind-boggling. I'd love to hear what their real thought process was... Unfortunately we will never hear that.

It is really strange to see how polar opposite some of these decisions seem to be. Most gm's seem to have a certain type like we see with Presti who tends to always go with supreme athletes that tend to be raw but usually very young as well. With Lindsey it is all over the place. I feel the same way with free agents and some of the trades he has made. The Hill and Rubio couldn't be any different as players and Hill at least made sense from a fit standpoint and to follow that up with Rubio who never made any sense from a fit standpoint was just head scratching. The Conley trade definitely makes sense from a fit standpoint but I don't feel like he makes any sense from an age standpoint.

[Luigi]

Has anyone actually confirmed we can do this Rubio thing? Anyone posed it to any of the Twitter cap specialists?

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It wasn't us, but on Nate Duncan's Mock Off-Season the Lakers pulled off this maneuver by doing a S&T with Alex Caruso. I'm confident it's legal, we just have to incentivize Rubio's new team to play ball.

I hope he goes to Indy, an east team wouldn't have to worry about helping us as much.

[Rauxcee]

It is really strange to see how polar opposite some of these decisions seem to be. Most gm's seem to have a certain type like we see with Presti who tends to always go with supreme athletes that tend to be raw but usually very young as well. With Lindsey it is all over the place. I feel the same way with free agents and some of the trades he has made. The Hill and Rubio couldn't be any different as players and Hill at least made sense from a fit standpoint and to follow that up with Rubio who never made any sense from a fit standpoint was just head scratching. The Conley trade definitely makes sense from a fit standpoint but I don't feel like he makes any sense from an age standpoint.

I believe that was all Hayward. Hayward wanted a PG and said he liked Rubio. Jazz wanted to keep Hayward so went out and got Rubio for him. They even flew him in from Spain to meet with Hayward.

Had Hayward not led the Jazz on, I don't believe they trade for Rubio.

[Daddy 801]

People are talking about Mirotic. Are we sure he is better than Rudy Gay for the team? Especially if we get Gay for 10 million and Mirotic costs 15-17.

[Luigi]

People are talking about Mirotic. Are we sure he is better than Rudy Gay for the team? Especially if we get Gay for 10 million and Mirotic costs 15-17.

I'd love Rudy Gay. But I really doubt he leaves the Spurs.

[stitches]

You know who would have been a real nice fit for this team? Better than the Mirotic's and Bobby Portis' of the world? Otto Porter...

[zero24gravity]

I'm not sure how you come away from that thinking they are closer to the top. I have them closer to the bottom.

Well, from what I've hear & seen, the majority of National (not homer-local) NBA "experts" are super high on the Jazz and mention them as a potential Western Conference champ every time they discuss next season. Last night was the latest example I've heard, as Jalen Rose deemed the Jazz a favorite to make the WCF. (Of course, with the understanding that there's still a lot of movement to come.)

I know for some fans, it's easier to just keep expectations low, so they aren't disappointed. However, it's also not really fair to be so skeptical that you actually turn into a hater for "your" team.

Conley is legit. DM & Gobert (2 time DPOY!) should improve. The FO appears to be serious about being very aggressive this offseason. What's not to get excited about? If a bunch of NBA "experts" go out of their way from talking about the big markets to take the time to talk about the Jazz, then there's nothing wrong with laying off the pessimism-Kool-Aid long enough to enjoy the ride & have some hope.

[zero24gravity]

It is really strange to see how polar opposite some of these decisions seem to be. Most gm's seem to have a certain type like we see with Presti who tends to always go with supreme athletes that tend to be raw but usually very young as well. With Lindsey it is all over the place. I feel the same way with free agents and some of the trades he has made. The Hill and Rubio couldn't be any different as players and Hill at least made sense from a fit standpoint and to follow that up with Rubio who never made any sense from a fit standpoint was just head scratching. The Conley trade definitely makes sense from a fit standpoint but I don't feel like he makes any sense from an age standpoint.

I believe that was all Hayward. Hayward wanted a PG and said he liked Rubio. Jazz wanted to keep Hayward so went out and got Rubio for him. They even flew him in from Spain to meet with Hayward.

Had Hayward not led the Jazz on, I don't believe they trade for Rubio.

Yup, Haywood screwed the Jazz in more ways than one, and leaving Rubio behind was one of them. Hope he enjoys his year coming off the bench for the C's or his trade to some team like Washington or New York.

[zero24gravity]

We'll see. You could also look at the Jazz with a very optimistic eye and say they'll be one of the top seeds if things go right and poorly for others. All of us just complained about being a conservative franchise. Now that we're taking on risk and have a team with more variance, we're suddenly upset about that too.

Well, not ALL of us, but I digress

The Jazz FO is damned if they do, damned if they don't by some fans. Good thing they don't listen to the masses, or they'd be run like the Knicks!

[sipclip]

I'm not sure how you come away from that thinking they are closer to the top. I have them closer to the bottom.

Well, from what I've hear & seen, the majority of National (not homer-local) NBA "experts" are super high on the Jazz and mention them as a potential Western Conference champ every time they discuss next season. Last night was the latest example I've heard, as Jalen Rose deemed the Jazz a favorite to make the WCF. (Of course, with the understanding that there's still a lot of movement to come.)

I know for some fans, it's easier to just keep expectations low, so they aren't disappointed. However, it's also not really fair to be so skeptical that you actually turn into a hater for "your" team.

Conley is legit. DM & Gobert (2 time DPOY!) should improve. The FO appears to be serious about being very aggressive this offseason. What's not to get excited about? If a bunch of NBA "experts" go out of their way from talking about the big markets to take the time to talk about the Jazz, then there's nothing wrong with laying off the pessimism-Kool-Aid long enough to enjoy the ride & have some hope.

The problem I have drinking the kool aid is that it usually means there is never any accountability for bad decisions. I think we made a very questionable decision and I don't like the way everyone in the media is simplifying it as basically Rubio and Crowder for Conley when it is so much more than that. In 2 years if this deal blows up in our face it could cripple this franchise and that scares the hell out of me.

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[Luigi]

If we don't make a real run either this season or next, it doesn't matter if it blows up in our face. We aren't getting a better chance. We can't waste Gobert's prime, and we can't waste Mitchell's rookie deal. We shouldn't waste the Warriors/Rockets weakness.

It's time to push the hatchlings out of the nest and see if they'll ever fly.

[Calhamid94]

Toronto went all in this past season and it payed off. The jazz need to go all in and make a splash in the western conference. We have the players and definitely have the coach. We are just a couple pieces away from actually competing for a championship. I can’t think of a more hungry city than Salt Lake to get a ring!

[KqWIN]

Not a fan. I was interested, but the more I looked into him the less I liked. Young is a fake stretch 4 without the ability to dominate at C like Favs.

Read on Twitter

[KqWIN]

Given the lack of talk concerning the Rubio maneuver and the FA targets that have come out (Portis, Thad Young)...I'm starting to think it won't happen. We're just going to replace Favs with a bad player that may or may not fit.

[Tom349]

Not a fan. I was interested, but the more I looked into him the less I liked. Young is a fake stretch 4 without the ability to dominate at C like Favs.

Read on Twitter

Im not sure how you can be high on Randle and yet have these concerns about Young. Surely if you like Randle who admittedly is more of a scorer then Young is fine alternative for potentially half the price and a far better defender.

[KqWIN]

Not a fan. I was interested, but the more I looked into him the less I liked. Young is a fake stretch 4 without the ability to dominate at C like Favs.

Read on Twitter

Im not sure how you can be high on Randle and yet have these concerns about Young. Surely if you like Randle who admittedly is more of a scorer then Young is fine alternative for potentially half the price and a far better defender.

Because Randle is a completely different player with completely different upside. The reasons why I liked Randle, scoring ability (before we got Conley) and potential, are not there with Young. I don't understand how you could possibly associate Randle with Young.

[Luigi]

Given the lack of talk concerning the Rubio maneuver and the FA targets that have come out (Portis, Thad Young)...I'm starting to think it won't happen. We're just going to replace Favs with a bad player that may or may not fit.

That's disappointing if true. We really should do the Rubio maneuver. It's going to take that much to go for a decent Crowder replacement, which we will need badly.

Does it depend on Rubio's timeline, and on the Grizz timeline?

[Tom349]

Not a fan. I was interested, but the more I looked into him the less I liked. Young is a fake stretch 4 without the ability to dominate at C like Favs.

Read on Twitter

Im not sure how you can be high on Randle and yet have these concerns about Young. Surely if you like Randle who admittedly is more of a scorer then Young is fine alternative for potentially half the price and a far better defender.

Because Randle is a completely different player with completely different upside. The reasons why I liked Randle, scoring ability (before we got Conley) and potential, are not there with Young. I don't understand how you could possibly associate Randle with Young.

Randle has more or less same skillset as Young just with a much higher usage. The only real difference between the two on offense is Randle's ability to get to the rim. They're both left handed, like to face up players their own size and post up players smaller than them, they are both a similar size, Randle being slightly taller but with a smaller wingspan. Have very similar shooting numbers in both percentage of where they take their shots and what the percentage they convert them at and their ability to create for other is more or less the same. The key difference is FTr and usage which when Young was on **** teams like Randle has and subsequently had higher usage the difference in points per game was very similar with free throw attempts being the only difference in the gap between them. Which for arguments sake Randle on the Jazz wouldn't average anywhere near as much free throws a game with Gobert clogging the lane alongside him.

I willing to concede Randle having greater upside and scoring ability but I don't buy for one second that they're different players and the numbers reflect that, which given Randle would have less than the ideal fit alonside Rudy compared to Davis, Lopez and Kuzma the past two seasons Im not sure why the extra 6-8 points a game is worth double the price Randle would cost and half the defense.

[KqWIN]

Randle has more or less same skillset as Young just with a much higher usage. The only real difference between the two on offense is Randle's ability to get to the rim. They're both left handed, like to face up players their own size and post up players smaller than them, they are both a similar size, Randle being slightly taller but with a smaller wingspan. Have very similar shooting numbers in both percentage of where they take their shots and what the percentage they convert them at and their ability to create for other is more or less the same. The key difference is FTr and usage which when Young was on **** teams like Randle has and subsequently had higher usage the difference in points per game was very similar with free throw attempts being the only difference in the gap between them. Which for arguments sake Randle on the Jazz wouldn't average anywhere near as much free throws a game with Gobert clogging the lane alongside him.

I willing to concede Randle having greater upside and scoring ability but I don't buy for one second that they're different players and the numbers reflect that, which given Randle would have less than the ideal fit alonside Rudy compared to Davis, Lopez and Kuzma the past two seasons Im not sure why the extra 6-8 points a game is worth double the price Randle would cost and half the defense.

I'm sorry, but this is a terrible take. They are completely different players and the numbers absolutely show that. You can't just brush off the usage as if it's something minor and a circumstance of role. Same thing with FT's. Randle is a completely different player because of these aspects. Young has never come close to approaching Randle's usage or FTr. Not even close. Randle is a high usage wrecking ball who seeks to overwhelm his defender through contact. Young is a low usage player who uses a soft touch to score inside the paint with a short hooks and floaters. Not the same in at all.

This isn't even the biggest difference. Randle has immense talent but is not very smart and does not play defense. Young is very cerebral, terrific defender who does all the little . I have no clue how you could categorize these players as the same. They two aren't remotely similar and have completely different archetypes.

If you like Young, you like him for his defense, high basketball IQ, and veteran presence. Not even close to the reasons as to why you be a fan of Randle. I can guarantee you that nobody who wants Randle wants him for those things, because he doesn't have them.

[KqWIN]

Given the lack of talk concerning the Rubio maneuver and the FA targets that have come out (Portis, Thad Young)...I'm starting to think it won't happen. We're just going to replace Favs with a bad player that may or may not fit.

That's disappointing if true. We really should do the Rubio maneuver. It's going to take that much to go for a decent Crowder replacement, which we will need badly.

Does it depend on Rubio's timeline, and on the Grizz timeline?

I suppose both, but there's a week before anything can happen. You would think that Rubio would be able to find a home during the moratorium. If they don't pull it off...it better not be because they didn't try or weren't aware it was a possibility.

I can't believe the only place it's being talked about is on this forum It's a gigantic advantage...but all the talk is whether or not Favs contract will be waived or not.