Bojan Bogdanovic traded to Detroit

[AingesBurner]

I would love to hear Ainge's thinking on this one.

All I can come up with is

1) Jazz save about $6M this year
2) Jazz receive a young guard along with Olynyk (Do the Jazz really need another guard?)
3) Bogey to Detroit may push the Pistons to more wins than the Jazz this year thus the Jazz may improve their draft position for next year.

Personally, if Ainge couldn't get a lottery protected first round pick, I think I would have held on to Bogey and tried to move him by the trade deadline (somebody always gets injured during the NBA season and contending teams always look to acquire players).

I didn't like Pat Bev for THT either.

I think he’s valuing the upcoming draft more and our position than the return for a few of our vets. Top 5 pick in this draft is franchise changing, I’d rather have that player than the pick we get for Bojan.

Why can't we have both?

If that trade cannot get done until the deadline then it affects our draft position.

[Daddy 801]

I would love to hear Ainge's thinking on this one.

All I can come up with is

1) Jazz save about $6M this year
2) Jazz receive a young guard along with Olynyk (Do the Jazz really need another guard?)
3) Bogey to Detroit may push the Pistons to more wins than the Jazz this year thus the Jazz may improve their draft position for next year.

Personally, if Ainge couldn't get a lottery protected first round pick, I think I would have held on to Bogey and tried to move him by the trade deadline (somebody always gets injured during the NBA season and contending teams always look to acquire players).

I didn't like Pat Bev for THT either.

I think he’s valuing the upcoming draft more and our position than the return for a few of our vets. Top 5 pick in this draft is franchise changing, I’d rather have that player than the pick we get for Bojan.

Why can't we have both?

We can and should have. Hell this excuse of saving a few dollars is a joke. Second round picks can be sold for millions. They could have at least brought a couple second round picks back and sold them in the future. To let an asset go without compensation is stupid. And it's not like we did Bogey a solid by sending him to a competing team. Makes no sense, unless it is part of larger trade.

[DNP-Old]

I admit I'm wearing my tinfoil hat...but. If Ainge believes he has a good chance at being involved with the winning bidders, could he have rejected the Sun's offer because he wouldn't want them to be improved prior to the sale and would prefer the Sun's keep their future draft picks?

[AingesBurner]

I admit I'm wearing my tinfoil hat...but. If Ainge believes he has a good chance at being involved with the winning bidders, could he have rejected the Sun's offer because he wouldn't want them to be improved prior to the sale and would prefer the Sun's keep their future draft picks?

He would be open to litigation and his chances of buying that team are now gone.

[DNP-Old]

I admit I'm wearing my tinfoil hat...but. If Ainge believes he has a good chance at being involved with the winning bidders, could he have rejected the Sun's offer because he wouldn't want them to be improved prior to the sale and would prefer the Sun's keep their future draft picks?

He would be open to litigation and his chances of buying that team are now gone.

How could it be proven? Trade values are subjective.

[AingesBurner]

I think he’s valuing the upcoming draft more and our position than the return for a few of our vets. Top 5 pick in this draft is franchise changing, I’d rather have that player than the pick we get for Bojan.

Why can't we have both?

We can and should have. Hell this excuse of saving a few dollars is a joke. Second round picks can be sold for millions. They could have at least brought a couple second round picks back and sold them in the future. To let an asset go without compensation is stupid. And it's not like we did Bogey a solid by sending him to a competing team. Makes no sense, unless it is part of larger trade.

What’s the opportunity cost of keeping Bojan until the deadline?

[zero24gravity]

I think he’s valuing the upcoming draft more and our position than the return for a few of our vets. Top 5 pick in this draft is franchise changing, I’d rather have that player than the pick we get for Bojan.

Why can't we have both?

We can and should have. Hell this excuse of saving a few dollars is a joke. Second round picks can be sold for millions. They could have at least brought a couple second round picks back and sold them in the future. To let an asset go without compensation is stupid. And it's not like we did Bogey a solid by sending him to a competing team. Makes no sense, unless it is part of larger trade.

While I agree that is SEEMS they could have got more, clearly they couldn't. If they could have got more, they would have. They can't keep Bogey and bench him, while waiting for a better deal. That is a terrible look for other players and a disservice to a player who deserves better. They also can't let him play, because it defeats the purpose of angling for a top draft pick this year. Most the deals are done for the summer. Teams are gearing up for the season now. The Jazz simply don't have the leverage in deal like they did earlier in the summer with the Rudy & DM deals, and O'Neale for a 1st was a steal! Now they are forced to take the best of what they can get, and other teams know it. Unfortunately, not doing so would be shooting themselves in the foot. Olynyk will be a major contributor this year, IMO. They do save some money, but they also get a nearly $7m trade exception, if I'm understanding correctly. It's not a 1st round pick, but it would be foolish to not think they got the best deal possible, at this point in time.

[AingesBurner]

I admit I'm wearing my tinfoil hat...but. If Ainge believes he has a good chance at being involved with the winning bidders, could he have rejected the Sun's offer because he wouldn't want them to be improved prior to the sale and would prefer the Sun's keep their future draft picks?

He would be open to litigation and his chances of buying that team are now gone.

How could it be proven? Trade values are subjective.

All it takes is Zanik saying that Phoenix offered a first and better deal, Ainge turned that down for a worst deal. I don’t see how Ainge is going to a buy in a franchise when his net wealth is 10 mill. Smith would be far better to offer him ownership and Ainge can continue to run the team. Less likely he runs the team if he buys out Suns.

[Rauxcee]

There was a post on the GB that the Jazz were offered a FRP by teams, but it also included long term salary. Sounds like this was just a money saving move.

[WinterSoldier]

The only interesting theory on this trade I've heard is the Jazz are trading to the Pistons to make them better as they see them as competition for a high draft pick. The more likely reality is the Jazz just made a really bad move and there was no strategy or thinking behind it.

[Daddy 801]

Why can't we have both?

We can and should have. Hell this excuse of saving a few dollars is a joke. Second round picks can be sold for millions. They could have at least brought a couple second round picks back and sold them in the future. To let an asset go without compensation is stupid. And it's not like we did Bogey a solid by sending him to a competing team. Makes no sense, unless it is part of larger trade.

While I agree that is SEEMS they could have got more, clearly they couldn't. If they could have got more, they would have. They can't keep Bogey and bench him, while waiting for a better deal. That is a terrible look for other players and a disservice to a player who deserves better. They also can't let him play, because it defeats the purpose of angling for a top draft pick this year. Most the deals are done for the summer. Teams are gearing up for the season now. The Jazz simply don't have the leverage in deal like they did earlier in the summer with the Rudy & DM deals, and O'Neale for a 1st was a steal! Now they are forced to take the best of what they can get, and other teams know it. Unfortunately, not doing so would be shooting themselves in the foot. Olynyk will be a major contributor this year, IMO. They do save some money, but they also get a nearly $7m trade exception, if I'm understanding correctly. It's not a 1st round pick, but it would be foolish to not think they got the best deal possible, at this point in time.

You're arguing they couldn't keep Bogey because they need to angle for the draft, and arguing that Olynyk will be a major contributor. If Bogey was too good to keep why get a player who will be a major contributor? If the argument is Olynyk isn't as good as Bogey, then why trade for a worse player? Whole argument makes no sense.

I do not believe this was the best they could get for Bogey.

[Daddy 801]

Why can't we have both?

We can and should have. Hell this excuse of saving a few dollars is a joke. Second round picks can be sold for millions. They could have at least brought a couple second round picks back and sold them in the future. To let an asset go without compensation is stupid. And it's not like we did Bogey a solid by sending him to a competing team. Makes no sense, unless it is part of larger trade.

What’s the opportunity cost of keeping Bojan until the deadline?

Trading for something instead of nothing like the Jazz did.

[AingesBurner]

We can and should have. Hell this excuse of saving a few dollars is a joke. Second round picks can be sold for millions. They could have at least brought a couple second round picks back and sold them in the future. To let an asset go without compensation is stupid. And it's not like we did Bogey a solid by sending him to a competing team. Makes no sense, unless it is part of larger trade.

What’s the opportunity cost of keeping Bojan until the deadline?

Trading for something instead of nothing like the Jazz did.

They can trade him for a future protected pick and win additional games that take them out of the top 5 this year or trade him and land in the top 5 this year.

[Daddy 801]

What’s the opportunity cost of keeping Bojan until the deadline?

Trading for something instead of nothing like the Jazz did.

They can trade him for a future protected pick and win additional games that take them out of the top 5 this year or trade him and land in the top 5 this year.

Do you think Olynyk a better player than Bogey?

If not, this statement makes no sense. They will get worse offers than they did with Bogey.

Or, you think Olynyk is a better player than Bogey. Which would be an interesting take.

[AingesBurner]

Trading for something instead of nothing like the Jazz did.

They can trade him for a future protected pick and win additional games that take them out of the top 5 this year or trade him and land in the top 5 this year.

Do you think Olynyk a better player than Bogey?

If not, this statement makes no sense. They will get worse offers than they did with Bogey.

Or, you think Olynyk is a better player than Bogey. Which would be an interesting take.

I am saying that the opportunity cost is giving up Bogey for a meh return to increase our lottery odds this year is better than getting a protected pick that gets a 6-10 pick. Also, Bogey will make Detroit win more games and increases our lottery odds as well.

[D Rog]

I don't understand why the Jazz are not willing to bring back players with 2-3 years remaining on their contract as long as they also get draft capital in return. It isn't like the Jazz are in the market for a high priced free agent in the next couple of years. Salt Lake is not a destination city in the NBA. The only way you can build a team here is via draft or trade.

Before some genius screams "Luxury Tax" I get that part of it. I think the Jazz would have been better off buying Bogey out of his contract at about 60% and granting him free agency rather than getting a has been and a never will be in a trade.

[Inigo Montoya]

Before some genius screams "Luxury Tax" I get that part of it. I think the Jazz would have been better off buying Bogey out of his contract at about 60% and granting him free agency rather than getting a has been and a never will be in a trade.

I don't see the point in just buying out Bojan. The Jazz did save some money out of this trade and also got a trade exception they could use in future trades. They also got worse players so that will help with the tank, so perhaps getting a "has been and a never will be" was the point.

Olynyk has only 3 million guaranteed for next season, so the Jazz could cut him then and save an additional 9M, or they could keep him and use his 12M expiring contract as a trade chip. All of these options are better than just buying out Bojan's contract.

That being said, if there are no picks or swaps involved, I still don't like this trade.

[Hoops Addict]

Jazz say all trades for Bogey gettting a FRP required them to take back more salary than they were giving.

Saving $5M and getting trade execption is MEH.....I trust Ainge evealutated all the options and that was tyhe best option. Still I would think getting even 1 Lakers pick would have been a better trade, especially if we could dump Conley.

Clarkson is next to go.

[Inigo Montoya]

Before I begin, I'll reiterate again that I don't like this trade if all we got was Olynyk, Lee, and no picks.

Next, I'll say that I don't think there is any merit to the notion that Ainge refused a better offer from the Suns because he may be involved with an attempted purchase of the Suns in some capacity.

Having stated the above, I'll offer a theory. It is not meant to absolve Ainge from what seems like a bad trade, and maybe it gives him too much credit, but hey, it's the offseason and we have nothing better to do.

With the Gobert and especially Mitchell trade, Ainge was able to set a price and say "this is what I want. Pay the price or I'll trade with someone else." I think he's done the same thing with this trade. The Lakers wanted both to unload Westbrook (a negative asset for them) and get good players in return. The best suitors for that kind of deal were the Jazz and the Pacers, and both teams were looking for both Lakers picks as compensation (from various reports). Once he saw the Lakers wouldn't pay what he wanted, he went and traded with another team. Now the Lakers have only one suitor in the Pacers, and they'll have to either part with both picks anyway, or keep Westbrook, as long as the Pacers hold firm. Either way, the Lakers were likely to part with both picks (we'll see if that really happens).

My theory is that Ainge was willing to make a calculated move in order to further establish that you'll either pay the price he's asking for, or he'll trade with someone else. He was willing to "sacrifice" an asset in Bojan, who, while valuable, had limited ability to net a big return, for the benefit of establishing his negotiating position in future trades. Sure, another FRP would have been nice, but do we really need another protected FRP in the 20s from the Suns?

He did save about 7M, got a trade exception, cleared some cap space, got a potential trade chip in an expiring Olynyk for 12M next season, or 9M in savings for the Jazz next season or for any team that trades for him, and he reinforced the tank by getting lesser players.

Again, I don't like the return, but I think I can see the reasoning behind this trade.

[zero24gravity]

We can and should have. Hell this excuse of saving a few dollars is a joke. Second round picks can be sold for millions. They could have at least brought a couple second round picks back and sold them in the future. To let an asset go without compensation is stupid. And it's not like we did Bogey a solid by sending him to a competing team. Makes no sense, unless it is part of larger trade.

While I agree that is SEEMS they could have got more, clearly they couldn't. If they could have got more, they would have. They can't keep Bogey and bench him, while waiting for a better deal. That is a terrible look for other players and a disservice to a player who deserves better. They also can't let him play, because it defeats the purpose of angling for a top draft pick this year. Most the deals are done for the summer. Teams are gearing up for the season now. The Jazz simply don't have the leverage in deal like they did earlier in the summer with the Rudy & DM deals, and O'Neale for a 1st was a steal! Now they are forced to take the best of what they can get, and other teams know it. Unfortunately, not doing so would be shooting themselves in the foot. Olynyk will be a major contributor this year, IMO. They do save some money, but they also get a nearly $7m trade exception, if I'm understanding correctly. It's not a 1st round pick, but it would be foolish to not think they got the best deal possible, at this point in time.

You're arguing they couldn't keep Bogey because they need to angle for the draft, and arguing that Olynyk will be a major contributor. If Bogey was too good to keep why get a player who will be a major contributor? If the argument is Olynyk isn't as good as Bogey, then why trade for a worse player? Whole argument makes no sense.

I do not believe this was the best they could get for Bogey.

The team (likely) sucks, so a player far worse than Bogey will likely still be a major contributor for the Jazz, yes, especially at a position where they have no established players. Damn near the entire team will be crappy(ish) players contributing. That's what makes it a tank year. Bad teams have players contributing on them that would not see the floor on good teams. That's what makes them bad. I think you understand that, and just feel they didn't get what you think they should have.

It's being reported that the only deals the Jazz were getting with a pick attached also had long-term (bad?) contracts attached. They took the best they could get at this time. Holding onto him until trade deadline wasn't an option, IMO, for the reasons I stated before. Do you really think the Jazz FO had better options and said "meh, screw it, we'll take a worse offer"? Come'on, that's silly.

And just to be clear .... I don't think this is GOOD value for the Jazz, but I do think it was the best thing available at this point in time. There's no reason to think otherwise.