Jazz Trade Conley, Vanderbilt, Beasley, NAW - Trade is Official

Post #21 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 7:48 pm

Hoops Addict wrote:Let's hope Lakers are crappy in 2027......Lebrobn may be retired or injured by then.

That's the problem--if the Lakers suck too hard in 2027 they may get a top-4 pick and we'll end up with a second round pick instead. Now we can't even root for the Lakers to suck properly :nonono:

SoCalJazzFan · Post #22 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 8:50 pm

Cappy_Smurf wrote:
If you look at the percentages, there isn't a huge difference in finishing 6th worst instead of dead last.

If Utah finishes 5th worst, there's only 3.5% less chance of getting the number 1 pick.

If they finish 6th, only a 4% less chance at #1.

Since the NBA changed the lottery odds, there just isn't a significant advantage to tanking out of the gate.

I look at it as:
1-3 worst teams have a 56% better chance to land the #1 pick and a 45% chance to land the #2 pick than the 6th worst team
4th worst team has a roughly 40% and 33% better chance
5th worst team has a roughly 20% and 15% better chance.

dautjazz · Post #23 » by **dautjazz** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 10:48 pm

You got to consider these are all essentially bench players with one year left on their contracts, they dont exactly hold some astronomical value. Two FRPs this pool of talent would be crazy for the Lakers.

vryadli · Post #24 » by **vryadli** » Thu Feb 9, 2023 11:13 pm

OK, bottom feeder roll is accepted officially for 5-20 years. Lauri will learn to lose quickly and perfectly. Second tier (just stars) players with winning attitude will think twice about joining Jazz.

End of Cinderella story on court. But exciting trade avenue.

WinterSoldier · Post #25 » by **WinterSoldier** » Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:22 pm

vryadli wrote:OK, bottom feeder roll is accepted officially for 5-20 years. Lauri will learn to lose quickly and perfectly. Second tier (just stars) players with winning attitude will think twice about joining Jazz.

End of Cinderella story on court. But exciting trade avenue.

Haha!! Opposed to the last 30 years of high character swell gentlemen? or the lovable scrappy underdogs who always try their best? I can never remember which narrative we are running with.

Post #26 » by **Klomp** » Fri Feb 10, 2023 8:08 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:A potential downside to the trade that hasn't been mentioned is that adding Yoda's veteran leadership to the Wolves might outweigh losing D'Russ' scoring capability, especially when Towns comes back. Wolves might win more games this season than they would have without the trade, worsening the Jazz pick.

Read on Twitter

Another question I have regarding "Yoda's" (love that nickname from JC btw) impact is how much did he have to do with Kessler's offensive development? I feel like you've seen maximum impact from Kessler so far, and I wonder if there could be some regression as a result of the trade.

Hoops Addict · Post #27 » by **Hoops Addict** » Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:58 am

Beasley was going to be a free agent.....he would have signed with someone else anyway.....we didnt want him if his salary is around $15M.

ok trade......I'm sure that was the best deal Ainge could get. Will Lebron play for the Lakers in 2027 at age 42? Lakers may be under 500 in 2027.

red4hf · Post #28 » by **red4hf** » Sat Feb 11, 2023 1:52 am

Hoops Addict wrote:Beasley was going to be a free agent.....he would have signed with someone else anyway.....we didnt want him if his salary is around $15M.

ok trade......I'm sure that was the best deal Ainge could get. Will Lebron play for the Lakers in 2027 at age 42? Lakers may be under 500 in 2027.

Beasley has a team option for next year..... Which will be picked up......

babyjax13 · Post #29 » by **babyjax13** » Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:31 am

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Cappy_Smurf wrote:Utah does not have to pay Westbrooks full salary of 47 million. I don't know the exact numbers, but my understanding is that the Lakers pay about 30 million of that salary. Somebody can correct me if they know better.

That's true. The Lakers paid Westbrook up until now, so the actual amount the Jazz will pay will be less than $47M. But in terms of cap space, the Jazz have to absorb $47M of cap space for one player, which is obviously very limiting (now that the trade deadline is about to lapse, it doesn't matter as much).

Still, we basically gave away 4 good players and 2 second round picks for what might end up being a second round pick. It's just bad value. We essentially paid 2 second-round picks so other teams will take on Conley, Beasley, V8 and NAW.

As for the rest of your post, I appreciate the optimism regarding the tank. Hopefully we'll luck out.

It's a high variance asset, which is not something often available for roleplayers not in a team's future plans. Yes, the pick could turn into a second, but the most likely scenario is that it does not. Even if the Lakers ended with the worst record, we'd still have a 47 percent chance at it conveying. Sometimes it is worth rolling the dice, and this seems like a low-stakes gamble. What else were we really going to get for them?

Crunch 99 · Post #30 » by **Crunch 99** » Sat Feb 11, 2023 1:27 pm

Klomp wrote:
Crunch 99 wrote:A potential downside to the trade that hasn't been mentioned is that adding Yoda's veteran leadership to the Wolves might outweigh losing D'Russ' scoring capability, especially when Towns comes back. Wolves might win more games this season than they would have without the trade, worsening the Jazz pick.

Read on Twitter

Another question I have regarding "Yoda's" (love that nickname from JC btw) impact is how much did he have to do with Kessler's offensive development? I feel like you've seen maximum impact from Kessler so far, and I wonder if there could be some regression as a result of the trade.

I am not sure how much Conley had to do with Kessler's development. Maybe someone else has some stats on who has been assisting Kessler. In Kessler's big game last night, the other big men, Olynyk and Markkanen, frequently assisted Kessler. And for much of the season, Kessler was coming off the bench to play with other bench players.

I think Conley had a lot to do with Markkanen's development as a legit Q4 scorer in this league. Earlier in the season, Markkanen was barely getting the ball in Q4s. When Conley came back from injury, Conley made a concerted effort to find Markkanen in Q4s and Markkanen responded with efficient Q4 scoring, even with other teams loading up their defense to try to stop him.

In the post game interview last night, Sexton said Conley was the best veteran teammate he ever played with. He said Conley voluntarily spent lots of time coaching him up in between games.

I see Conley had an inauspicious debut with the Wolves last night, with as many turnovers as assists. That isn't like Conley. He is second in the league for starting PGs for assist to turnover ratio. It might take some time for the old guy to get comfortable in his new surroundings and find a rhythm, but he will likely get there. At his age though, he isn't your starting PGOTF.

Crunch 99 · Post #31 » by **Crunch 99** » Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:56 pm

I am still surprised how little we got for three rotation players at the trade deadline. Posters have said "well that's all that was offered and the market is what it is". There are other possibilities though. Ainge might have stuck to his high asking prices too long. He was reportedly asking for one unprotected FRP each for Conley, Vando and Beasley. Maybe he had to blink and settle for a crappy deal at the last minute to move off these players. I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't some better offers along the way that weren't there at the end.

Post #32 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:34 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:I am still surprised how little we got for three rotation players at the trade deadline. Posters have said "well that's all that was offered and the market is what it is". There are other possibilities though. Ainge might have stuck to his high asking prices too long. He was reportedly asking for one unprotected FRP each for Conley, Vando and Beasley. Maybe he had to blink and settle for a crappy deal at the last minute to move off these players. I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't some better offers along the way that weren't there at the end.

I think Ainge was looking for a first round pick for each of the players he traded, but I doubt he was asking for an unprotected pick for each.

pickIBL · Post #33 » by **pickIBL** » Sun Feb 12, 2023 10:41 pm

Klomp wrote:
Crunch 99 wrote:A potential downside to the trade that hasn't been mentioned is that adding Yoda's veteran leadership to the Wolves might outweigh losing D'Russ' scoring capability, especially when Towns comes back. Wolves might win more games this season than they would have without the trade, worsening the Jazz pick.

Read on Twitter

Another question I have regarding "Yoda's" (love that nickname from JC btw) impact is how much did he have to do with Kessler's offensive development? I feel like you've seen maximum impact from Kessler so far, and I wonder if there could be some regression as a result of the trade.

Good point guards do mean a lot. Andre Miller did a lot for bigs too. He made Javale look smart. Damn guys like that cant play in today's NBA

tugs · Post #34 » by **tugs** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:14 am

Am I the only optimistic Utah could've still competed in the POs and might have a chance at the chip pre trade deadline? Anyone else wanted that?

Post #35 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:35 am

tugs wrote:Am I the only optimistic Utah could've still competed in the POs and might have a chance at the chip pre trade deadline? Anyone else wanted that?

The Jazz have a terrible defense, no way they had a chance at a ring with that roster. They had a chance to make the play-in, maybe make the playoffs outright but just like the previous iteration of this team, they weren't going anywhere.

vtime · Post #36 » by **vtime** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:32 pm

This trade cleared a ton of salary. You can do so much with that including adding another guy as good as Markannen if you wanted. You can be pretty successful with 2 guys of that caliber and then use your picks along the way to grow with them or make another splash. Trade makes complete sense.

zero24gravity · Post #37 » by **zero24gravity** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:20 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:I am not sure how much Conley had to do with Kessler's development. Maybe someone else has some stats on who has been assisting Kessler. In Kessler's big game last night, the other big men, Olynyk and Markkanen, frequently assisted Kessler. And for much of the season, Kessler was coming off the bench to play with other bench players.

I think Conley had a lot to do with Markkanen's development as a legit Q4 scorer in this league. Earlier in the season, Markkanen was barely getting the ball in Q4s. When Conley came back from injury, Conley made a concerted effort to find Markkanen in Q4s and Markkanen responded with efficient Q4 scoring, even with other teams loading up their defense to try to stop him.

In the post game interview last night, Sexton said Conley was the best veteran teammate he ever played with. He said Conley voluntarily spent lots of time coaching him up in between games.

I see Conley had an inauspicious debut with the Wolves last night, with as many turnovers as assists. That isn't like Conley. He is second in the league for starting PGs for assist to turnover ratio. It might take some time for the old guy to get comfortable in his new surroundings and find a rhythm, but he will likely get there. At his age though, he isn't your starting PGOTF.

I'd like to start a petition to immediately add Conley to the Jazz's coaching staff the second the ink dries on his retirement papers.

FranchisePlayer · Post #38 » by **FranchisePlayer** » Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:46 pm

Losing Conley was devastating.

Crunch 99 · Post #39 » by **Crunch 99** » Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:30 pm

It didn't take Conley long to have a winning performance with the Wolves. Playing in just his second game, he had 12 pts on 8 fga with 9 ast and 2 tovs in a win on the road in Dallas. He also reportedly fed Rudy for three slams. Rudy had 21 pts and 14 rebs.

Crunch 99 · Post #40 » by **Crunch 99** » Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:30 pm

What do people think about Juan Toscano-Anderson? I heard a commentator say that he has defensive potential. Every time I checked in on the Jazz-Grizz game last night, he was really hustling. This was a good performance in his first game with the Jazz, though I wouldn't be totally shocked if it turns out to be his best game. The 10 rebs were a season high for him.