The Official Utah Jazz-Related Stuff 2024-2025 Thread

HadAnEffectHere · Post #21 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Tue Oct 8, 2024 2:21 pm

Why in the world did Walker go up to 272 pounds

No one in the league is this heavy other than Edey, Jokic, and Embiid, and these extreme weights are really only helpful on offense (where Walker has little value)

Post #22 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Tue Oct 8, 2024 3:47 pm

HadAnEffectHere wrote:No one in the league is this heavy other than Edey, Jokic, and Embiid, and these extreme weights are really only helpful on offense (where Walker has little value)

It should help him keep these guys out of the post (as much as it's possible) and make it more difficult for them to back him down. Not sure it would help him on offense much other than maybe muscling other players for position for defensive and offensive rebounds.

Catchall · Post #23 » by **Catchall** » Tue Oct 8, 2024 5:50 pm

If I were the Jazz, I'd be optimistic about Keyonte, Brice, Kyle and Cody going forward. Those guys have the talent level and versatility to be starters.

Hendricks is mostly a spot-up shooter and defensive presence. He can be your 5th starter if you want him to be. Collier is probably a backup PG.

HadAnEffectHere · Post #24 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Tue Oct 8, 2024 8:15 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:No one in the league is this heavy other than Edey, Jokic, and Embiid, and these extreme weights are really only helpful on offense (where Walker has little value)

It should help him keep these guys out of the post (as much as it's possible) and make it more difficult for them to back him down. Not sure it would help him on offense much other than maybe muscling other players for position for defensive and offensive rebounds.

Cool, now he can guard those three specific players better while being way worse at guarding the other 200 players in the NBA he has to try to defend.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #25 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Tue Oct 8, 2024 9:35 pm

There is a lot of talk about the young 7 with the Jazz, but maybe it should be expanded to 8. Juzang, only 23, is looking really good so far this preseason. He is locked up for the next 4 yrs at a really cheap <$3M/yr.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #26 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Tue Oct 8, 2024 9:38 pm

Catchall wrote:If I were the Jazz, I'd be optimistic about Keyonte, Brice, Kyle and Cody going forward. Those guys have the talent level and versatility to be starters.

Hendricks is mostly a spot-up shooter and defensive presence. He can be your 5th starter if you want him to be. Collier is probably a backup PG.

If Collier is probably a backup PG, do you think that Keyonte is a starting PG? Personally, I am not sure that Keyonte is better than Collier.

HadAnEffectHere · Post #27 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Tue Oct 8, 2024 9:40 pm

Collier is so bad as a shooter and has such bad intangibles and explosion that it's going to be pretty unlikely for him to be relevant in the NBA.

He needs to play way harder and become a much better shooter.

Keyonte needs to become a massively better PG and defender as well to be relevant in the NBA.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #28 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Tue Oct 8, 2024 9:46 pm

HadAnEffectHere wrote:Collier is so bad as a shooter and has such bad intangibles and explosion that it's going to be pretty unlikely for him to be relevant in the NBA.

He needs to play way harder and become a much better shooter.

Keyonte needs to become a massively better PG and defender as well to be relevant in the NBA.

Same could be said for Keyonte and his 33% 3pt and 39% overall FG% last season. Collier seems to break the paint at will and I'm guessing would have double the assist rate that Keyonte had last season if allowed to play 27mpg. He's not as long as Keyonte, but is much more physical on defense.

I'm not saying he is the PGOTF or even will be a starting PG, but I also question whether Keyonte is.

HadAnEffectHere · Post #29 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Tue Oct 8, 2024 9:47 pm

Yeah, I don't know if either guy will be much in the NBA. Collier's defense can be OK in the half-court, but the issue is that he's a super bad transition defender because he complains instead of running back on defense. That's his #1 thing to avoid this season and the main reason he dropped so far in the draft.

babyjax13 · Post #30 » by **babyjax13** » Tue Oct 8, 2024 10:10 pm

I'm a little worried by the pummeling of the Rockets that we are going to finish like 9th in the lottery again.

babyjax13 · Post #31 » by **babyjax13** » Tue Oct 8, 2024 10:11 pm

HadAnEffectHere wrote:Yeah, I don't know if either guy will be much in the NBA. Collier's defense can be OK in the half-court, but the issue is that he's a super bad transition defender because he complains instead of running back on defense. That's his #1 thing to avoid this season and the main reason he dropped so far in the draft.

He dropped so far in the draft because he is a bad shooter and had a lot of terrible decision making in the first part of the season. I think the transition defense is a small part of it, more was issues w/offense. Plus, that can be fixed pretty easy, "if you complain to the refs you get benched."

HadAnEffectHere · Post #32 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Tue Oct 8, 2024 10:33 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:Yeah, I don't know if either guy will be much in the NBA. Collier's defense can be OK in the half-court, but the issue is that he's a super bad transition defender because he complains instead of running back on defense. That's his #1 thing to avoid this season and the main reason he dropped so far in the draft.

He dropped so far in the draft because he is a bad shooter and had a lot of terrible decision making in the first part of the season. I think the transition defense is a small part of it, more was issues w/offense. Plus, that can be fixed pretty easy, "if you complain to the refs you get benched."

Nah, the terrible decision making is tied pretty closely to the not trying in transition defense in that Collier only cared about highlights instead of trying to win.

Hopefully this gets fixed in the NBA.

Catchall · Post #33 » by **Catchall** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 1:40 am

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
Catchall wrote:If I were the Jazz, I'd be optimistic about Keyonte, Brice, Kyle and Cody going forward. Those guys have the talent level and versatility to be starters.

Hendricks is mostly a spot-up shooter and defensive presence. He can be your 5th starter if you want him to be. Collier is probably a backup PG.

If Collier is probably a backup PG, do you think that Keyonte is a starting PG? Personally, I am not sure that Keyonte is better than Collier.

I was at the game last night. Regarding Keyonte, I don't quite see him as a lead initiator. I don't think he processes and makes reads fast enough. I think he can play some PG, but he's more of a combo (think Booker, Beal, Dinwiddie, etc.). Ultimately, I think the Jazz would like to initiate from a multi-skilled wing or wing-sized guard. Or maybe the Jazz would play a style that doesn't require a pure PG.

Post #34 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 11:54 am

I hate to bring this up again but Keyonte's rookie season is eerily similar to Trey Burke's.

https://stathead.com/tiny/q26Mr

Hopefully we'll see a leap this season.

Catchall · Post #35 » by **Catchall** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:09 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:I hate to bring this up again but Keyonte's rookie season is eerily similar to Trey Burke's.

https://stathead.com/tiny/q26Mr

Hopefully we'll see a leap this season.

Great. Now do Jamal Murray.

Post #36 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 2:29 pm

Catchall wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:I hate to bring this up again but Keyonte's rookie season is eerily similar to Trey Burke's.

https://stathead.com/tiny/q26Mr

Hopefully we'll see a leap this season.

Great. Now do Jamal Murray.

OK.
https://stathead.com/tiny/RA57e

It's worth noting that George averaged 6MPG more than Murray and that's why the only place he has the edge over Murray is in raw stats. The big difference is that Murray was very efficient in college while George was inefficient. Obviously rookie seasons for a PG often result in inefficiency and rough stats but I'd be more inclined to bet on a player who has shown he could be efficient than a player who hasn't. But the Jazz seem to be really high on George and he is talented so hopefully we'll see an improvement this season to the point I won't have to bring up the Burke comparison again because believe me, I don't want to.

HadAnEffectHere · Post #37 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 3:24 pm

The closest statistical comparison to George is probably Cole Anthony.

Catchall · Post #38 » by **Catchall** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 4:49 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:I hate to bring this up again but Keyonte's rookie season is eerily similar to Trey Burke's.

https://stathead.com/tiny/q26Mr

Hopefully we'll see a leap this season.

Great. Now do Jamal Murray.

OK.
https://stathead.com/tiny/RA57e

It's worth noting that George averaged 6MPG more than Murray and that's why the only place he has the edge over Murray is in raw stats. The big difference is that Murray was very efficient in college while George was inefficient. Obviously rookie seasons for a PG often result in inefficiency and rough stats but I'd be more inclined to bet on a player who has shown he could be efficient than a player who hasn't. But the Jazz seem to be really high on George and he is talented so hopefully we'll see an improvement this season to the point I won't have to bring up the Burke comparison again because believe me, I don't want to.

Keyonte was better earlier in his college season than later, after he was injured. (Statistically, he looked similar to Brad Beal at Florida before his ankle sprain.) His stats are right there with Murray's rookie year in most regards. The Jazz have also been liberal about letting Keyonte make mistakes and be inefficient, a) to develop him, and b) because the Jazz are willing to lose.

I think Keyonte will be fine as a player. I just think he's more of a score-first combo guard and secondary creator than a primary initiator. His role models will probably be Murray, Beal and Booker. Hopefully, he's better than Dinwiddie.

HadAnEffectHere · Post #39 » by **HadAnEffectHere** » Wed Oct 9, 2024 5:18 pm

Locke: I was surprised at how Cody Williams wasn't able to get off some shots in the preseason games.

Bruh, this was like his biggest weakness in college other than his strength and athleticism. He shoots very low and out in front of him. He could never get jumpers off in high school or college.

SoCalJazzFan · Post #40 » by **SoCalJazzFan** » Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:41 pm

Catchall wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:
Catchall wrote:If I were the Jazz, I'd be optimistic about Keyonte, Brice, Kyle and Cody going forward. Those guys have the talent level and versatility to be starters.

Hendricks is mostly a spot-up shooter and defensive presence. He can be your 5th starter if you want him to be. Collier is probably a backup PG.

If Collier is probably a backup PG, do you think that Keyonte is a starting PG? Personally, I am not sure that Keyonte is better than Collier.

I was at the game last night. Regarding Keyonte, I don't quite see him as a lead initiator. I don't think he processes and makes reads fast enough. I think he can play some PG, but he's more of a combo (think Booker, Beal, Dinwiddie, etc.). Ultimately, I think the Jazz would like to initiate from a multi-skilled wing or wing-sized guard. Or maybe the Jazz would play a style that doesn't require a pure PG.

I agree that Keyonte is not a natural facilitating/initiating PG. I like Keyonte, but the problem with him being a combo guard is that there has to be another good facilitator on the team. If that is someone like Collier, then you have too small of a backcourt. I predict that there will at some point, perhaps as early as before the end of this season, be a PG controversy in Utah.