2023 Trade Rumors

[bkohler]

Something I’ve noticed posting trades on the trades board (highly scientific I know) is that people seem to really under value Markkanen. Lots of people have him has a top 50ish player very few have him in that top 25 player value wise. People view him as a “good stats on a bad team” player - I wonder if GMs share that sentiment.

[skywalker33]

Something I’ve noticed posting trades on the trades board (highly scientific I know) is that people seem to really under value Markkanen. Lots of people have him has a top 50ish player very few have him in that top 25 player value wise. People view him as a “good stats on a bad team” player - I wonder if GMs share that sentiment.

Or, could it be YOU highly OVERVALUE him because you're a Jazz fan, it does work both ways.

[Inigo Montoya]

Something I’ve noticed posting trades on the trades board (highly scientific I know) is that people seem to really under value Markkanen. Lots of people have him has a top 50ish player very few have him in that top 25 player value wise. People view him as a “good stats on a bad team” player - I wonder if GMs share that sentiment.

Or, could it be YOU highly OVERVALUE him because you're a Jazz fan, it does work both ways.

My guess is that since not many people watch Jazz games (small market team, playing late at night), a lot of people base their opinion of Markkanen on what they've seen from him before during his time with Chicago and Cleveland.

[bkohler]

Something I’ve noticed posting trades on the trades board (highly scientific I know) is that people seem to really under value Markkanen. Lots of people have him has a top 50ish player very few have him in that top 25 player value wise. People view him as a “good stats on a bad team” player - I wonder if GMs share that sentiment.

Or, could it be YOU highly OVERVALUE him because you're a Jazz fan, it does work both ways.

Sure, it definitely could be! However, looking at how a few national publications rate him trade value-wise:

The Ringer: #32 (Just below Franz Wagner, Jalen Williams, and just above Jaylen Brown, LaMelo Ball)
HoopHype: #40 (Just below Cade Cunningham, Darius Garland, and above Mikal Bridges)

Seems like no one would bat an eye at asking for 3-4 picks plus a young player for any of those players... why then are the valuations for Lauri so low? I think it's likely Inigo said - people view Lauri as Chicago Lauri not Utah Lauri.

[skywalker33]

Something I’ve noticed posting trades on the trades board (highly scientific I know) is that people seem to really under value Markkanen. Lots of people have him has a top 50ish player very few have him in that top 25 player value wise. People view him as a “good stats on a bad team” player - I wonder if GMs share that sentiment.

Or, could it be YOU highly OVERVALUE him because you're a Jazz fan, it does work both ways.

Sure, it definitely could be! However, looking at how a few national publications rate him trade value-wise:

The Ringer: #32 (Just below Franz Wagner, Jalen Williams, and just above Jaylen Brown, LaMelo Ball)
HoopHype: #40 (Just below Cade Cunningham, Darius Garland, and above Mikal Bridges)

Seems like no one would bat an eye at asking for 3-4 picks plus a young player for any of those players... why then are the valuations for Lauri so low? I think it's likely Inigo said - people view Lauri as Chicago Lauri not Utah Lauri.

As Inigo said, small markets, lack of exposure, and lack of success lately. Markkanen has talent, he was a pretty high pick but don't think he's the missing piece, especially given he hasn't really led the Jazz to a winning record as of yet. And gotta say, your UTH/DEN trade was rather insulting from a Nuggets perspective. Last three games MPJ has avg'd 25/8 and has accepted the role he plays on a Championship team, not the chump-change you're portraying as

[bkohler]

Or, could it be YOU highly OVERVALUE him because you're a Jazz fan, it does work both ways.

Sure, it definitely could be! However, looking at how a few national publications rate him trade value-wise:

The Ringer: #32 (Just below Franz Wagner, Jalen Williams, and just above Jaylen Brown, LaMelo Ball)
HoopHype: #40 (Just below Cade Cunningham, Darius Garland, and above Mikal Bridges)

Seems like no one would bat an eye at asking for 3-4 picks plus a young player for any of those players... why then are the valuations for Lauri so low? I think it's likely Inigo said - people view Lauri as Chicago Lauri not Utah Lauri.

As Inigo said, small markets, lack of exposure, and lack of success lately. Markkanen has talent, he was a pretty high pick but don't think he's the missing piece, especially given he hasn't really led the Jazz to a winning record as of yet. And gotta say, your UTH/DEN trade was rather insulting from a Nuggets perspective. Last three games MPJ has avg'd 25/8 and has accepted the role he plays on a Championship team, not the chump-change you're portraying as

Oh interesting! I thought MPJ was considered a negative value because of his contract and health concerns! Shows what I know. I also assumed DEN's picks to be likely in the high 20's so fairly worthless. So I figured the (my perceived) negative value of MPJ + some great young role players and some bad picks = Markkanen an opportunity to expand DEN's already formidable lead on the rest of the league.

[skywalker33]

Sure, it definitely could be! However, looking at how a few national publications rate him trade value-wise:

The Ringer: #32 (Just below Franz Wagner, Jalen Williams, and just above Jaylen Brown, LaMelo Ball)
HoopHype: #40 (Just below Cade Cunningham, Darius Garland, and above Mikal Bridges)

Seems like no one would bat an eye at asking for 3-4 picks plus a young player for any of those players... why then are the valuations for Lauri so low? I think it's likely Inigo said - people view Lauri as Chicago Lauri not Utah Lauri.

As Inigo said, small markets, lack of exposure, and lack of success lately. Markkanen has talent, he was a pretty high pick but don't think he's the missing piece, especially given he hasn't really led the Jazz to a winning record as of yet. And gotta say, your UTH/DEN trade was rather insulting from a Nuggets perspective. Last three games MPJ has avg'd 25/8 and has accepted the role he plays on a Championship team, not the chump-change you're portraying as

Oh interesting! I thought MPJ was considered a negative value because of his contract and health concerns! Shows what I know. I also assumed DEN's picks to be likely in the high 20's so fairly worthless. So I figured the (my perceived) negative value of MPJ + some great young role players and some bad picks = Markkanen an opportunity to expand DEN's already formidable lead on the rest of the league.

What health concerns ? He had little problems last year and is doing fine this year, only RealGM posters have issues with that. As for his contract, just wait until Markkanen comes up in nego, same posters will rag on UTH for overpayment regardless of production. Regardless of the picks, you asked for Strawther, who just laid down 21pts in 23mins, along with Watsons who is looking like he can develop into a STUD, at least you have an eye for talent, which you want to steal LOL. One other thought, LM is a PF which we already have AG there and meshes very well with Jokic, so not sure if Markkanen could play at the SF position, haven't seen enough of him.

I'm sure you've noticed how RealGMer don't think highly of smaller market team roster, I sure have. Disappointing when even the smaller market teams think their roster overvalues that of a World Championship team without even considering the change in chemistry that would happen, the one thing the talent-mongers don't even consider.

[bkohler]

Markkanen is our starting SF and has played SF extensively in UTA and CLE.

MPJ's back issues, he's missed 2 of his five seasons with them.

Strawther and Watson are both good; that's why I was interested - I needed something of value to anchor the trade, and I didn't consider MPJ a prize but a liability.

LM's contract will probably be large... but he's still got two more years at a bargain.

LM would be amazing in DEN; I know they've got good chemistry, but honestly, I'm not sure it matters when you have Jokic. He maximized talent to an extreme extent. Also, the idea was for Lauri and JC to help with bench creation, and DEN still struggles to produce offense with Jokic sits, or he could be rerouted for a pick somewhere.

My perspective was simply a negative-value contract, two great young role players, and many low-value picks would be worth Lauri. There was no offense meant, I just thought it would be interesting for Denver to get better and get out of the MPJ contract while potentially providing a way for them to duck the tax and reset the repeater clock.

[Jiipee84]

https://thejnotes.com/2023/11/06/the-utah-jazz-need-to-consider-making-moves-now-to-capitalize-on-lauri-markkanen/
What Ainge should to do?
And who should be target if the options are next.
Luka Doncic ( league's biggets cry-baby who whines too much for referees )
Ja Morant ( had law problems with a guns and got fines and suspensions of those )
Tyler Herro
Tyrese Haliburton ( unlikely Pacers let him go )
Trae Young ( elite passer but how's his defence Jazz do not need more defensive lack )

[Inigo Montoya]

The worst thing the Jazz can do is rushing things instead of letting things unfold. They should build around Markkanen but this season was a throwaway season from the jump. No one thought this team will be more than a play-in team at best. We'll see who will become available, the Jazz are in no position to choose. If one becomes available, you go for it (I wouldn't include Herro in that group though).

[skywalker33]

The worst thing the Jazz can do is rushing things instead of letting things unfold. They should build around Markkanen but this season was a throwaway season from the jump. No one thought this team will be more than a play-in team at best. We'll see who will become available, the Jazz are in no position to choose. If one becomes available, you go for it (I wouldn't include Herro in that group though).

I agree with this, LM is a nice piece to build around. One thing to learn from the Nuggets is the chemistry built from avoiding continued trading of pieces, especially to a smaller market team, can become one of its biggest assets. Granted, Ainge has started building a nice treasure chest of draft picks, but you still have to draft well to maximize this. Still, when opportunity knocks....

[Jiipee84]

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[Kizz Fastfists]

The worst thing the Jazz can do is rushing things instead of letting things unfold. They should build around Markkanen but this season was a throwaway season from the jump. No one thought this team will be more than a play-in team at best. We'll see who will become available, the Jazz are in no position to choose. If one becomes available, you go for it (I wouldn't include Herro in that group though).

I agree with this, LM is a nice piece to build around. One thing to learn from the Nuggets is the chemistry built from avoiding continued trading of pieces, especially to a smaller market team, can become one of its biggest assets. Granted, Ainge has started building a nice treasure chest of draft picks, but you still have to draft well to maximize this. Still, when opportunity knocks....

The Nuggets built mainly through the draft and Jokic is the "old man" at 28. Murray is the same age as Markkanen and Porter Jr is younger than Markkanen. Utah doesn't have the time to build around Markkanen. Are you really going to add enough next off-season to keep Markkanen when he hits FA? Markkanen will be 30 before Utah has a chance to draft enough high quality players to build a quality playoff team around him and then you are dealing with his decline. You have the same problem as other small market teams when it comes to signing a star player. It is almost impossible for you. They traded Mitchell when he was younger than Markannen is today.

I see a player like Markkanen as the missing piece for OKC. As a Thunder fan I'd be happy to give up Giddey and Dort along with a few picks for Markkanen and Olynyk. A package along the lines of OKC's best 2024 pick, which will be the best pick between Houston, LAC and OKC. Philly's 2025 pick and Denver's 2026 pick in addition to returning Utah's pick that OKC has, but is decently protected. Giddey would give Utah it's first building block. Dort is a solid role player and at 24 you'd have the option of keeping him as a future piece or trading him for more assets. Three first round picks, in addition to removing all the protections on Utah's own pick for the next several years would be a solid return.

Markkanen is a top 40 player, arguably top 30. Giddey is in the 50-60 range with room to grow at only 21. I only think giving up that much value for Markkanen makes sense for OKC because they have a lot of guards and wings with a massive hole when it comes to big men after Chet. They also have enough picks that they can make an offer like that an it doesn't deplete them going forward. Moving Markkanen and Olynyk in gives OKC the roster balance they need and solves their rebounding and size problem. I'd be interested in hearing what Utah fans think of an offer like that.

[AingesBurner]

The worst thing the Jazz can do is rushing things instead of letting things unfold. They should build around Markkanen but this season was a throwaway season from the jump. No one thought this team will be more than a play-in team at best. We'll see who will become available, the Jazz are in no position to choose. If one becomes available, you go for it (I wouldn't include Herro in that group though).

I agree with this, LM is a nice piece to build around. One thing to learn from the Nuggets is the chemistry built from avoiding continued trading of pieces, especially to a smaller market team, can become one of its biggest assets. Granted, Ainge has started building a nice treasure chest of draft picks, but you still have to draft well to maximize this. Still, when opportunity knocks....

The Nuggets built mainly through the draft and Jokic is the "old man" at 28. Murray is the same age as Markkanen and Porter Jr is younger than Markkanen. Utah doesn't have the time to build around Markkanen. Are you really going to add enough next off-season to keep Markkanen when he hits FA? Markkanen will be 30 before Utah has a chance to draft enough high quality players to build a quality playoff team around him and then you are dealing with his decline. You have the same problem as other small market teams when it comes to signing a star player. It is almost impossible for you. They traded Mitchell when he was younger than Markannen is today.

I see a player like Markkanen as the missing piece for OKC. As a Thunder fan I'd be happy to give up Giddey and Dort along with a few picks for Markkanen and Olynyk. A package along the lines of OKC's best 2024 pick, which will be the best pick between Houston, LAC and OKC. Philly's 2025 pick and Denver's 2026 pick in addition to returning Utah's pick that OKC has, but is decently protected. Giddey would give Utah it's first building block. Dort is a solid role player and at 24 you'd have the option of keeping him as a future piece or trading him for more assets. Three first round picks, in addition to removing all the protections on Utah's own pick for the next several years would be a solid return.

Markkanen is a top 40 player, arguably top 30. Giddey is in the 50-60 range with room to grow at only 21. I only think giving up that much value for Markkanen makes sense for OKC because they have a lot of guards and wings with a massive hole when it comes to big men after Chet. They also have enough picks that they can make an offer like that an it doesn't deplete them going forward. Moving Markkanen and Olynyk in gives OKC the roster balance they need and solves their rebounding and size problem. I'd be interested in hearing what Utah fans think of an offer like that.

Yeah, Giddey is damaged goods at this point. This is not enough.

[Inigo Montoya]

1. If the Jazz trade Markkanen, who will Giddy pass the ball to?

2. Giddy and George will probably be the most inefficient back court in the league by a wide margin.

3. Unfortunately all the picks in the proposed deal aren't going to be high enough. The Rockets look like they're going to be good enough so their pick won't be.

4. 30 is not old, it's still in the peak of the player's career. And there is the possibility of the Jazz trading for help. Other than OKC the Jazz have the most assests to trade for a star should/one becomes available.

5. Giddy is a nice player with plenty of upside but to me he looks like the odd man out in OKC. They drafted too well and can't afford to keep everyone.

[Kizz Fastfists]

1. If the Jazz trade Markkanen, who will Giddy pass the ball to?

2. Giddy and George will probably be the most inefficient back court in the league by a wide margin.

3. Unfortunately all the picks in the proposed deal aren't going to be high enough. The Rockets look like they're going to be good enough so their pick won't be.

4. 30 is not old, it's still in the peak of the player's career. And there is the possibility of the Jazz trading for help. Other than OKC the Jazz have the most assests to trade for a star should/one becomes available.

5. Giddy is a nice player with plenty of upside but to me he looks like the odd man out in OKC. They drafted too well and can't afford to keep everyone.

1- Get Kessler more easy buckets at the rim? They can draft/sign players over the next 2-3 years for him to pass to.

2. If you assume George is not going to become more efficient then he's never going to be a quality NBA player. Being inefficient and making a run for a top 3 pick this year isn't a bad thing when you are in a rebuilding phase. Giddey had a rough start, but is returning to his efficiency from last year and should continue to build on that.

3. I can't argue with that. It looks like the pick would be in the 10-12 range, which given this is a deep draft isn't bad, but isn't great. However, no one that is going to have a high pick will trade it for Markannen as they are rebuilding and don't want to add a player in their prime who doesn't get you to the playoffs without another significant piece, which they lack if they have a top 5 pick.

4. If Utah was capable of keeping players they would have kept Mitchell. Markannen was acquired in trade so he didn't pick Utah and could be counting down the days until he can go elsewhere. The same could be said of him if OKC traded for him.

5. It isn't a cap issue. There is plenty of money. The issue is the roster is very unbalanced and Giddey is an extra ballhandler who has extreme upside and makes the most sense to trade. With SGA as the primary ballhandler, Cason Wallace and Micic off the bench and Jalen Williams a very capable ballhandler along with Isaiah Joe and others on the roster Giddy and Dort make the most sense to trade for OKC to trade. I don't expect you to know how the OKC roster fits just like I don't know how the Utah role players fit.

If we assume Utah isn't going to trade Markannen and try to rebuild without bottoming out, which is difficult to do. How would something along the lines of Dort, return Utah's first, Philly's 2025 first and a 2025 second round pick for John Collins and Olynyk sound? It works similarly for OKC as Collins, while no where near the player Markannen is, could fill the needed stretch 4 role for OKC. I'm still upset that OKC didn't trade for Collins this off-season given where the team was and their clear hole in the roster and how cheaply he was acquired.

[Inigo Montoya]

1- Get Kessler more easy buckets at the rim? They can draft/sign players over the next 2-3 years for him to pass to.

No amount of easy buckets for Kessler will make up for the loss of Markkanen and replacing him with an inefficient point guard. Take it from Jazz fans who have seen Gobert year after year doing nothing but finishing alley-hoops and easy dunks--these type of players can't make up for the loss of a real offensive options and no amount of easy baskets from your PG will compensate for it, especially if said PG is inefficient himself.

2. If you assume George is not going to become more efficient then he's never going to be a quality NBA player. Being inefficient and making a run for a top 3 pick this year isn't a bad thing when you are in a rebuilding phase. Giddey had a rough start, but is returning to his efficiency from last year and should continue to build on that.

That's a real possibility. It's very common for rookie guards to shoot poorly, it happens every year, but George also shot poorly in college and that's more concerning when putting the two together. We'll have to wait and see. I'm hoping he'll work out but we'll see. Having a top 3 pick isn't bad but unfortunately this draft looks to be rather weak.

3. I can't argue with that. It looks like the pick would be in the 10-12 range, which given this is a deep draft isn't bad, but isn't great. However, no one that is going to have a high pick will trade it for Markannen as they are rebuilding and don't want to add a player in their prime who doesn't get you to the playoffs without another significant piece, which they lack if they have a top 5 pick.

I'm not sure about that. The Jazz managed to get a 2027 top-4 protected pick from the Lakers for lesser players (Vanderbilt, Beasley etc.). Ainge is pretty good at squeezing value for good players, I'll trust he can wrestle a good pick for Markkanen.

4. If Utah was capable of keeping players they would have kept Mitchell. Markannen was acquired in trade so he didn't pick Utah and could be counting down the days until he can go elsewhere. The same could be said of him if OKC traded for him.

They could have kept him. But they'd be stuck in the middle with him. It was much better to do a complete reset and gain a ton of assets for him. One could argue the trade went too well for the Jazz with Markkanen breaking out into an allstar and that the team in general was too good to tank effectively. I'm only speculating here but I'm pretty sure Markkanen would love to stay. For the first time in his career he's with a team that trusts him, features him, makes him a focal point and plays to his strengths and he's with a system that greatly benefits him. And the Jazz could offer him the most money. I think he'd at least sign a new contract with the Jazz. Then he could do what others do--secure the money and ask out but I doubt he'd do that.

5. It isn't a cap issue. There is plenty of money. The issue is the roster is very unbalanced and Giddey is an extra ballhandler who has extreme upside and makes the most sense to trade. With SGA as the primary ballhandler, Cason Wallace and Micic off the bench and Jalen Williams a very capable ballhandler along with Isaiah Joe and others on the roster Giddy and Dort make the most sense to trade for OKC to trade. I don't expect you to know how the OKC roster fits just like I don't know how the Utah role players fit.

You obviously know much more than me about OKC so I'll defer to you on this. While I highlighted the financial aspect, I also think similar to you that Giddey is edged out by more dominant ball handlers. So be it a financial issue, a fit issue or a mix of both, bottom line is that he's the odd man out.

If we assume Utah isn't going to trade Markannen and try to rebuild without bottoming out, which is difficult to do. How would something along the lines of Dort, return Utah's first, Philly's 2025 first and a 2025 second round pick for John Collins and Olynyk sound? It works similarly for OKC as Collins, while no where near the player Markannen is, could fill the needed stretch 4 role for OKC. I'm still upset that OKC didn't trade for Collins this off-season given where the team was and their clear hole in the roster and how cheaply he was acquired.

I think it's a fair deal overall. Don't have a problem with it but more salaries would have to be included because as it is the trade doesn't work so some tweaking would need to be done. It helps us tank, get us some value out of Olynyk's expiring deal, quickly moves us off of Collins' contract for a bit of value, opens up minutes for Hendricks, and gives us a decent defender in the back court. I will note, however, that while Collins can hit the 3 at a respectable rate, I wouldn't really classify him as a stretch 4. If that's what you're after you could probably find cheaper players who fit that description better. He is quite talented though.

[Hoops Addict]

The Jazz are about the 5th worst team now. I do not want a trade where it would make Utah better this year.

If we picked 5th we could get Collier from USC a 6'5' PG.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/isaiah-collier/

No trades unless unloading talent for draft picks.

[jayu70]

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[babyjax13]

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I'm not surprised. We have so many players that need to go and I don't know if there will be takers. Who will want Collins and Sexton? I hope a team would ship out seconds for them but I'm not sure it is out there. No one will want THT. Olynyk and Clarkson should at least return some seconds, but all of these guys need to go. I wouldn't be surprised if we use one of our future firsts to get off of some of this bad salary, though I would rather we just released some players and took the cap hit if it came to that.