Keep an eye on the Philly pick.

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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#41 » by sirslimjim » Tue May 25, 2010 2:26 am

NUMBERICA wrote:
DelaneyRudd wrote:You can't "Darius Miles" someone who will be ready to play by December at the latest.

You don't know that. It was a pretty terrible injury, especially for someone that plods and weighs as much as he does, in addition to the fact that he was never exactly a good athlete or especially adept at healing. This is the guy that has to sit games when he takes international flights and has one of the worst home/away splits in the NBA, supposedly because of his back and not having his super-specialized bed.

Considering that he isn't superhuman, the nature/severity of the injury, and the total ineptitude of the Jazz medical staff, it seems within the realm of possibility that his injury is in the Darius Miles category.


I'm too lazy to look it up, but isn't this the same injury Elton Brand had a couple years back?
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#42 » by dr0welf » Tue May 25, 2010 2:56 am

Actually, this injury won't affect Memo as much as someone who depends on his athleticism. Returning Memo probably won't be able to jump as high, and he probably won't be as explosive. But neither one of those was a relied upon weapon, because *wait for it* He doesn't possess any of those skills to begin with. His threat is shooting which he doesn't elevate a ton on his jump shot so it will be easier for him to come back from this injury then say a Darius Miles.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#43 » by NUMBERICA » Tue May 25, 2010 4:11 am

dr0welf wrote:Actually, this injury won't affect Memo as much as someone who depends on his athleticism. Returning Memo probably won't be able to jump as high, and he probably won't be as explosive. But neither one of those was a relied upon weapon, because *wait for it* He doesn't possess any of those skills to begin with. His threat is shooting which he doesn't elevate a ton on his jump shot so it will be easier for him to come back from this injury then say a Darius Miles.

I'll fully admit that it's a bit of a stretch on my part. However, the Blazers weren't granted the cap exemption because Miles wasn't as effective. They were granted it because Milesl injury was determined by a doctor to be career-ending. Significant difference, although my suggestion is still unlikely.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#44 » by Bullet » Tue May 25, 2010 5:00 am

sirslimjim wrote:I'm too lazy to look it up, but isn't this the same injury Elton Brand had a couple years back?


I believe you're right.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#45 » by carrottop12 » Tue May 25, 2010 7:30 am

freakazoid wrote:
Bat wrote:I would not be surprised to see the Jazz in talks for a trade centered around Andrei Kirilenko, the #9 pick, and maybe the Memphis first for Elton Brand and the #2 pick.



Stop thinking small. We throw in Boozer, and obviously we land Lebron, and possibly Bosh.

This is our year.

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As answered in the very next post.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -no-2-pick

ESPN wrote:"A number of teams have already looked into the availability of the Philadelphia 76ers' No. 2 pick in the June 24 draft.

The asking price? Several sources said they were told that the Sixers want their trade partner to take Elton Brand off their hands. Good luck with that. With Brand set to earn $51 million over the course of the next three years, he's virtually impossible to trade.


You can apologize whenever, or you can just edit your post so it doesn't look so foolish. :D

But like I said, this is just an idea if we really were fixed on moving up. Since most other teams ahead of us likely don't want anything we have to offer, Philly was and probably is our most likely trading partner. Despite Bran'd horrible contract, we could have a line up that would be very competitive for years to come, and would allow us to keep our core intact, with a strong possibility of improving. By the end of next season our line up would look like this.

Deron/Price/Gaines
Matthews/FA/Jeffers
Turner/Miles
Millsap/Brand/Koufos
Okur/Fesenko

I honestly think that team would be very good for a long time. Also Brand's contract would be expiring in time to ink Turner to a new deal, and if he does turn into the Brandon Roy type player he is projected, the Jazz have a truly unstoppable wing tandem with Deron and Turner.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#46 » by J_Ray » Tue May 25, 2010 9:14 am

From the sound of it, Utah might be able to keep #9 pick and send that Memphis 1st instead, which would allow Utah to land a guy like Aldrich to boot, which only helps them be a contender sooner. Brand may not be the same player he once was but the guy still puts up 13/6 while being a legitimate defender from the PF spot. He put up 165 defensive stops (steals & blocks) which is still pretty good company.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#47 » by carrottop12 » Tue May 25, 2010 10:13 am

J_Ray wrote:From the sound of it, Utah might be able to keep #9 pick and send that Memphis 1st instead, which would allow Utah to land a guy like Aldrich to boot, which only helps them be a contender sooner. Brand may not be the same player he once was but the guy still puts up 13/6 while being a legitimate defender from the PF spot. He put up 165 defensive stops (steals & blocks) which is still pretty good company.


He would really benefit from playing in a team system that had any semblance of order as well. Watching Philly run around last year was brutal. Being on a team that didn't rely on isolation drives for offense would make him a valuable player again.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#48 » by UTJazzFan_Echo1 » Tue May 25, 2010 3:23 pm

NUMBERICA wrote:
Frist, it doesn't hurt the Jazz there.

That's your argument? That we won't have the money to regretfully blow on Kendrick Perkins? The Jazz won't have more than the MLE any way you dice it unless they try to Darius Miles Memo (which they should try to do).

If we bring back Boozer? That will cost the Jazz $30 million next year plus likely additional years to Brand's deal. And I don't know how anyone else can see this, but there will be no big available that we can run an offense through (Monroe would be the closest if he wasn't so unmotivated and a general disappointment vs. His size and talent).

Proven how? When he's good, the Jazz are great but how often has that been? Throw all of the +/- garbage you want, site small sample size where he played well, but the bottom line is the Jazz don't appreciably lose more or win less when he's gone. How does he fit in to a championship team anyway? AK's biggest value is the money he'll save a team at this stage.

I hate to be so obvious, but did Memphis need Kwame Brown? Did Washington need Ilgauskas? **** teams buried in salary sometimes try to shed it, Philly is a **** team.

If AK is gone (and in this scenrio, he would be), the Jazz have ONE WING UNDER CONTRACT for next year. They'll have Matthews' rights as well and that's it. You draft BPA, and Turner is BPA. Favors hasn't proven anything (although he might completely rule at some point) and Cousins will implode the organization.

And yes, no matter what you do or how you look at it, taking on Brands contract would hurt the team.

How exactly do you figure the Jazz will only have the MLE after AK's contract expires?

AK has more than proven his importance to this team regardless of +/- or whatever stats you want to look at. Other than D-Will, AK has the largest positive impact on the team. Also, numbers/stats don't lie and all of them prove that AK is very important to this team. Don't give me that garbage cop out of "stats/numbers mean nothing".

If the Jazz lose Boozer and add either Kendrick Perkins or Joakim Noah how much better will they be?

What are you talking about with Kwame Brown and Big-Z? I don't even understand what your point is on that one...are you trying to say bad teams try to stay bad? That makes sense...

You say take BPA yet you throw Cousins, Monroe and even Favors under the bus. I would argue that all three of those guys have a better chance of being all-star caliber players than Turner does just because of their size.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#49 » by StocktonShorts » Tue May 25, 2010 3:44 pm

I think this would have to be #9 + AK for #2 + Brand.

I'd do that trade if I'm KOC.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#50 » by countrybama24 » Tue May 25, 2010 5:15 pm

Turner is worth taking on brands contract for purely basketball reasons. I'm sure the millers don't agree though. Turner is probably a 20 / 5/ 5 guard who can take the pressure off dwill... thats invaluable.

And way more valuable than the next 3-4 years AK would be effective. If I lived in Utah and had time on my hands, I would honestly consider protesting daily to take on brand for turner, thats the kind of radical move the organization needs to make if it ever wants to win a championship.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#51 » by DelaneyRudd » Tue May 25, 2010 5:59 pm

I think Brand can be 15 and 8 for the rest of his contract. It's basically adding 2 years to having a Kirilenko contract on the team. Brand will be an expiring in two years. I think it's worth it.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#52 » by hoops4life » Tue May 25, 2010 9:13 pm

If it is the Memphis first instead of our own, I would do Brand + #2 for Ak and Memphis.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#53 » by DelaneyRudd » Tue May 25, 2010 9:18 pm

That would be a slam dunk of epic proportions. Keep in mind, getting Brand now is cheaper than AK per year. He is just two years longer.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#54 » by NUMBERICA » Tue May 25, 2010 9:20 pm

Man, some of you guys are up in the clouds. Philly would be doing some team a massive favor to dump the #2 pick in the draft to get rid of a fairly productive but overpaid player. To not even include our not very good #9 and opt to send only a pick that might not even ever be a pick is just insulting.

Last night I took a trip over to the Sixers board where they were discussing that Chad Ford article and MAYBE 10% of them (at best) even gave it consideration. The rest are saying what some of us have in that Brand's not who he used to be but he wasn't being utilized in any ideal way at all and that the pick is far too valuable to use in a salary saving move. And even then, most of them are scoffing at #4 + Al Jefferson (which even as a Jefferson hater, is FAR more than AK + #9).
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#55 » by DelaneyRudd » Tue May 25, 2010 9:24 pm

They can scoff all they want, but yeah the Memphis pick is not going to get it done. Al Jeff and 4 is too much. AK and 9 are just about right. Maybe have to add the Memphis pick in addition.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#56 » by StocktonShorts » Tue May 25, 2010 9:58 pm

All I can say is: fans don't get to vote on the decisions their GMs make. Most fanbases would never approve cost-cutting and salary-dumping moves.

Let's just look at our own recent history... it KOC had put the Eric Maynor trade up for a vote before pulling the trigger, what would the reaction have been?
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#57 » by Jazzfan12 » Tue May 25, 2010 10:04 pm

The main issue other than money with a AK and 9 for Brand and 2 is that Brand would have to be the Jazz's starting center next season and so we'd once again be starting two undersized power forwards against the Lakers.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#58 » by UTJazzFan_Echo1 » Tue May 25, 2010 11:17 pm

Alright...here is the deal I would do if you do anything...

AK, Kosta and Memphis pick traded to Philly for the 2nd pick, Elton Brand and Jason Smith.

Carlos Boozer traded to the Orlando Magic for Gortat and either JJ Reddick or Brandon Bass.

Jazz replace AK with 2nd pick, get the length with the 9th pick and Gortat, back-ups in Bass or Reddick, replace Boozer with Brand and get Jason Smith as an expiring.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#59 » by StocktonShorts » Tue May 25, 2010 11:33 pm

UTJazzFan_Echo1 wrote:Alright...here is the deal I would do if you do anything...

AK, Kosta and Memphis pick traded to Philly for the 2nd pick, Elton Brand and Jason Smith.

Carlos Boozer traded to the Orlando Magic for Gortat and either JJ Reddick or Brandon Bass.

Jazz replace AK with 2nd pick, get the length with the 9th pick and Gortat, back-ups in Bass or Reddick, replace Boozer with Brand and get Jason Smith as an expiring.


I can't see Philly doing that deal without getting the 9th pick.
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Re: Keep an eye on the Philly pick. 

Post#60 » by NUMBERICA » Wed May 26, 2010 12:07 am

1 - No way in hell the Sixers do the trade without #9 included. No way. Not happening.

2 - Why does Brand HAVE to start at C?

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