Euroleague: Ante Tomic Watch

Post #41 » by **StocktonShorts** » Wed May 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Luigi wrote:Bump.

People seem to be talking about Tomic this summer. Is he more likely to come over now?

I think it depends on who the head coach is and who the Jazz draft.

Luigi · Post #42 » by **Luigi** » Fri May 16, 2014 4:04 am

Interesting. I was worried he was a lost cause. His strong play made me really regret that. I'm not sure if I'm overestimating him, but I'd really like to see him join our rotation.

pickIBL · Post #43 » by **pickIBL** » Fri May 16, 2014 2:16 pm

With what Kanter is due in free agency a smart front office would work something out with Tomic and FCB. Kanter as a trade asset versus a 12m contract on the books would be ideal. MLE money for 3 years with a team option (buy-out included) is fair for all.

KqWIN · Post #44 » by **KqWIN** » Fri May 16, 2014 4:10 pm

Last I heard on Tomic was that he "could" be a rotation player for us. Has that changed? I wouldn't move Kanter unless we know for sure that Tomic is a starting level player.

babyjax13 · Post #45 » by **babyjax13** » Fri May 16, 2014 6:38 pm

Every time I have watched him I've been incredibly impressed, he could really help this team if we make some nice moves in the draft and through trades. I think it is safe to say that he'd (at worst) be a starting level player.

Post #46 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Fri May 16, 2014 6:41 pm

Anyone who wants more info about the guy, can watch him play in 20 minutes vs Real Madrid in the final four semis.

pickIBL · Post #47 » by **pickIBL** » Fri May 16, 2014 7:14 pm

I'm working and don't always get to watch live. But with Tomic you have a guy polished offensively who recognizes double teams and knows how to pass the ball. Kanter is flawed in that area. Plus Tomic couldn't be worse than Kanter on defense. Tomic leads his team in rebounding this year which is a big improvement from where he started out getting pushed around. He is definitely a starter quality C likely available at MLE pricing. The same cannot be said for Kanter. Somebody will pay him.

Luigi · Post #48 » by **Luigi** » Fri May 16, 2014 8:34 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:Anyone who wants more info about the guy, can watch him play in 20 minutes vs Real Madrid in the final four semis.

Here's the link: http://www.euroleague.net/main/schedules/by-date

He's averaging 9 and 6 in 20 mins a game these playoffs. Looking at his numbers this season, I think he dominated in February, but overall he's still in development:
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/p ... code=E2013

Post #49 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Fri May 16, 2014 8:40 pm

Tomic's team (Barcelona) is getting hammered. Down 34...

pickIBL · Post #50 » by **pickIBL** » Fri May 16, 2014 8:41 pm

Luigi wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:Anyone who wants more info about the guy, can watch him play in 20 minutes vs Real Madrid in the final four semis.

Here's the link: http://www.euroleague.net/main/schedules/by-date

He's averaging 9 and 6 in 20 mins a game these playoffs. Looking at his numbers this season, I think he dominated in February, but overall he's still in development:
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/p ... code=E2013

1st team Euroleague. He's not a project by any stretch of the imagination. That and there is only so much you can take from a couple games. Take a look at the assists he's averaging for example. That number is skewed so high because it is a tiny sample size. The last two years have provided watchers with what they need. You focus on Tomic he will make you pay with the pass. You can't say the same for Kanter. He certainly wouldn't average 63% from the field in the NBA or Euroleague.

Luigi · Post #51 » by **Luigi** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:08 pm

pickIBL wrote:
Luigi wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:Anyone who wants more info about the guy, can watch him play in 20 minutes vs Real Madrid in the final four semis.

Here's the link: http://www.euroleague.net/main/schedules/by-date

He's averaging 9 and 6 in 20 mins a game these playoffs. Looking at his numbers this season, I think he dominated in February, but overall he's still in development:
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/p ... code=E2013

1st team Euroleague. He's not a project by any stretch of the imagination. That and there is only so much you can take from a couple games. Take a look at the assists he's averaging for example. That number is skewed so high because it is a tiny sample size. The last two years have provided watchers with what they need. You focus on Tomic he will make you pay with the pass. You can't say the same for Kanter. He certainly wouldn't average 63% from the field in the NBA or Euroleague.

He's been pretty consistent at those numbers though.
12.2 and 6.5 in the regular season (22:35 mins-10 games)
12.1 and 6.4 in the T16 (22:39 mins-14 games)
9.0 and 6.0 in the playoffs (20:30 mins-3 games)

Even his other stats are spookily similar across each phase of play. Those are good numbers. He's playing an important role on a winning team, and Euroleague numbers just look different. But I was really interested after those weekly MVP awards in February.

Luigi · Post #52 » by **Luigi** » Fri May 16, 2014 11:18 pm

Looks like Tomic played well, even if his team didn't. 16 and 8.

So averaging 10.75 and 7.0 in the playoffs (22:27 mins-4 games). Right around what you'd expect.

He's good. I hope he comes over because I think he's a rotation player, maybe more. But I'm not going to get too high on him. We do that too often as a fan base lately for potential guys (but, he''s 27).

pickIBL · Post #53 » by **pickIBL** » Sat May 17, 2014 4:29 am

Stats don't pile up in Europe. The pace is slower, the quarters are shorter, etc. Minutes are also more evenly distributed so the entire team isn't hurt in May. I see a mindset in the previous posts of looking at stats from an American/NBA prospective. That is essentially meaningless. What is Mirotic averaging right now 10ppg and 12ppg in the regular season. It just sounds like you don't have a handle on international basketball.

Post #54 » by **StocktonShorts** » Sat May 17, 2014 4:59 am

I've watched enough highlights, mix tapes etc. of Tomic to have a decent idea of what his game is like and what his physical tools are and I'm just not convinced his skills will translate to the NBA. I'm worried that he's not strong enough to get and maintain position in the paint. And I don't think he's quick enough to overcome that lack of strength.

I'd love to be wrong though.

Post #55 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sat May 17, 2014 5:05 am

He may not have the physical tools to be a star in the NBA, but he probably has the physical tools to be a decent starter-level center. He's really tall, has nice coordination and touch, as well as decent range and overall skill level. He won't have to back down defenders to get his points, and his length and agility should compensate for some of his lack of strength.

Luigi · Post #56 » by **Luigi** » Sat May 17, 2014 9:17 am

pickIBL wrote:Stats don't pile up in Europe. The pace is slower, the quarters are shorter, etc. Minutes are also more evenly distributed so the entire team isn't hurt in May. I see a mindset in the previous posts of looking at stats from an American/NBA prospective. That is essentially meaningless. What is Mirotic averaging right now 10ppg and 12ppg in the regular season. It just sounds like you don't have a handle on international basketball.

I think I said "Euroleague numbers just look different." I'm keeping all of that in mind.

Gokey Balboa · Post #57 » by **Gokey Balboa** » Sat May 17, 2014 11:03 am

Just compare Tomic with Marc Gasol in ther H2H over here in Eurobasket, last year:

GM1 - group phase match

http://www.eurobasket2013.org/en/cid_8X ... amID_.html

GM2 - bronze medal match

http://www.eurobasket2013.org/en/default.asp?cid={221A6A0E-D8D6-4016-B84F-1CC6CF17A09F}&compID={D166E39E-2323-4863-B229-76357A926FA2}&season=2013&roundID=8722&gameID=8738-89-A-1

If Tomic couldn't touch M.Gasol in a european game, how he could be of any value to his team in a game that favours more physical approach, speed or durability? :roll:

Teh Greatest · Post #58 » by **Teh Greatest** » Sat May 17, 2014 1:56 pm

Gokey Balboa wrote:Just compare Tomic with Marc Gasol in ther H2H over here in Eurobasket, last year:

GM1 - group phase match

http://www.eurobasket2013.org/en/cid_8X ... amID_.html

GM2 - bronze medal match

http://www.eurobasket2013.org/en/default.asp?cid={221A6A0E-D8D6-4016-B84F-1CC6CF17A09F}&compID={D166E39E-2323-4863-B229-76357A926FA2}&season=2013&roundID=8722&gameID=8738-89-A-1

If Tomic couldn't touch M.Gasol in a european game, how he could be of any value to his team in a game that favours more physical approach, speed or durability?

Marc Gasol is a top 5 defender in the NBA, and a DPOY winner. I wouldn't be so worried that Tomic had those stat lines against him right now seeing as he hasn't had NBA experience. NBA experience makes you a whole lot better in Euroleague I would say. So if Tomic does ever come over, give him a year to see how he does

Bone Daddy · Post #59 » by **Bone Daddy** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:18 pm

He was the only bright spot against Real.

Even though I fear that he has a high bust probability, I would love to see him get his chance in the NBA. Sometimes this type of players figure out to be effective. He was assessed as a not-so-good rebounder in the previous years and now he has shown considerable improvement. He seems to be working on his game a lot and I am not that concerned that he is 27. Super tall players take longer to develop.

I do not agree with head to head comparison with Gasol (simply because it does not provide any measure). Spain is a top team in Europe and they always show a very good level of collective effort.

If Kanter improves marginally next year, it might be wiser to use him in trade instead of paying 10-12 mil. Replacing him with Tomic wouldn't be a significant downgrade and save a lot of money (having said that, I'm still hopeful Kanter will make the jump next year).

pickIBL · Post #60 » by **pickIBL** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:38 pm

Bone Daddy wrote:
If Kanter improves marginally next year, it might be wiser to use him in trade instead of paying 10-12 mil. Replacing him with Tomic wouldn't be a significant downgrade and save a lot of money (having said that, I'm still hopeful Kanter will make the jump next year).

12m for Kanter or 5m for Tomic plus assets for Kanter. That is the question.