Current State of Donovan

[Trifecta47]

Aingesburner sounds like he has been reading Jazzfanz and some of those a-holes on there like OneGonad. They've turned into a Donovan-hating site and took Rudy's side in the conflict.

I don't see it that way. My take is that the Jazz chemistry fell apart because of Rudy and his throwing his teammates under the bus and failing to take accountability for his atrocious ball-handling that contributed to some of the Jazz meltdowns, most notably that stinker against the Clippers when Rudy was exposed by small ball.

Quin also played a role in putting Rudy Gay in the doghouse, and I don't see how you can say the Jazz catered to Don when Quin snubbed his best buddy Eric after he had shown some excellent minutes that deserved more playing time. Quin really p'od me with his inability to adjust to small ball, especially after the FO went out and got both Gay and Paschall who should've been playing more in those situations and which consequently were a big factor in the Jazz's recent failures in the playoffs.

But I hope Fumbalina, err Gobert, works on improving his ball-handling, or at least to catch the damn ball, Rudy. I got so frustrated with him.

Anyway, with Jingles gone and Donovan on his way out, and other Jazz players to follow, my 27-year fandom seems to be coming to an end. It's the era of Ainge.

[AingesBurner]

Aingesburner sounds like he has been reading Jazzfanz and some of those a-holes on there like OneGonad. They've turned into a Donovan-hating site and took Rudy's side in the conflict.

I don't see it that way. My take is that the Jazz chemistry fell apart because of Rudy and his throwing his teammates under the bus and failing to take accountability for his atrocious ball-handling that contributed to some of the Jazz meltdowns, most notably that stinker against the Clippers when Rudy was exposed by small ball.

Quin also played a role in putting Rudy Gay in the doghouse, and I don't see how you can say the Jazz catered to Don when Quin snubbed his best buddy Eric after he had shown some excellent minutes that deserved more playing time. Quin really p'od me with his inability to adjust to small ball, especially after the FO went out and got both Gay and Paschall who should've been playing more in those situations and which consequently were a big factor in the Jazz's recent failures in the playoffs.

But I hope Fumbalina, err Gobert, works on improving his ball-handling, or at least to catch the damn ball, Rudy. I got so frustrated with him.

Anyway, with Jingles gone and Donovan on his way out, and other Jazz players to follow, my 27-year fandom seems to be coming to an end. It's the era of Ainge.

you haven’t been here long enough to know my original opinion on Donovan. I wanted the Jazz to trade up for Donovan because I saw a star. I thought Donovan was the man but he has changed and pretty much every beat reporter has said the same thing. I wanted the Jazz to build around him but he has taken his focus away from the team.

You seem like one of those Facebook Jazz Nation fans that doesn’t understand the nuances of the game. I bet you thought the Jazz should have signed Jimmer, “he just never got a fair chance…”

[bearadonisdna]

He would ruin his image with a stunt like that and wouldn't ever chance it. Just like he's not the player that would demand a trade if it doesn't happen at deadline. I still think a deal will be done but I'm going 50 50 that it's with New York. Still think Jazz could retool and let Mitchell play out his contract if Danny ends up wanting to go that way. When Jazz traded Royce I figured we'd retool around Rudy and Mitchell was about to go in a trade. Surprise. bar has been set high after the Rudy deal and it's not going down with younger D Mitch. Time will tell and which ever direction we go I'm good.

Ok you won’t admit it instead provide conjecture and subjective responses to say why it won’t happen .
It’s ok it was only so you grasp the reality of that situation and Im sure you understand my logic although you protecting your ego by verbalizing it.
That’s ok I’m not here to conjure reality compliance.
That being said , moving on .

As far the Gobert ‘bar’ or threshold , I think of it as a peak . With a market that is cyclical it won’t always remain that high .
The jazz are now a different landscape than pre Gobert trade. That can reflect in the market. At this point for you to say you want more than Gobert package from the Knicks it becomes kind of insulting and bordering on negotiating in bad faith .
Youve already set the market and now want a lottery team to reset in a manner of weeks when the rest of the nba world knows the Donovan is not even contending needle mover .

If Mitchell doesn't move the needle your front office would've ever been part of the rumor mill today. I've never said CONTENDING. But a key part of a bigger puzzle and could help bring in another big player. Only because NY is a big market where Utah isn't that draw. And I'm sure your front office knows this but are holding out for a cheaper deal. Pretty risky either way. Ego? You know nothing about and should keep your judgement in check!

Cooler heads will probably prevail .
Jazz are unlikely to get a Gobert haul from the Knicks so it will be a deal in-between what jazz fans consider ideal and what Knicks fans consider ideal .

[Trifecta47]

Give me a break, trade up for Jimmer. Yeah, I've read all the Jazz beat writers. I think Donovan started to change when the racist legislature of Utah showed its true colors and voted to ban the teaching of Critical Race Theory. It had nothing to do with his teammates. He was always a great teammate and you could tell just how they treated him in comparison to Rudy who got few or weak well wishes from teammates after the trade. And can you blame him when Quin didn't play Eric, which to me, had something to do with Rudy -- as well as the lack of PT for Gay, which I heard caused a big blowout in the locker room. If I were Don, I could understand why he started to get so disinterested on D, and let Rudy take care of it, after fumbling one pass after another and still demanding the ball.

[dr0welf]

I feel the Jazz's stance is that they like Mitchell and they can build around Mitchell, but if a haul comes in that is as big or bigger than the Gobert trade, it is hard not to say yes. Everything has a sell point. I believe if the Knicks want Donovan then they will overpay the Jazz to get him otherwise the Jazz will build around him. It just speeds up their timeline to get the rebuild done as they have to show Donovan where they are going and earn his buy in before his contract runs out. That in itself is a risk, but Ainge isn't one to shy away from risk. He holds the cards on the rebuild and knows if their is a chance he can pull it off in time.

As for Donovan demanding a trade. I don't think that is Donovan's personality. He loves basketball and will always do his best on the court. I just don't think the Knicks are a good spot for Donovan after they signed Brunson. Those 2 are good players but ultimately undersized. And if Gobert, arguably one of the best defenders in the world could not cover up for the weakness an undersized Conley/Mitchell combo created. How is Randle or anyone else going to cover for Brunson/Mitchell combo? The undersized problem is an issue and if the Knicks wanted Mitchell they shouldn't have signed Brunson IMHO.

[AingesBurner]

I feel the Jazz's stance is that they like Mitchell and they can build around Mitchell, but if a haul comes in that is as big or bigger than the Gobert trade, it is hard not to say yes. Everything has a sell point. I believe if the Knicks want Donovan then they will overpay the Jazz to get him otherwise the Jazz will build around him. It just speeds up their timeline to get the rebuild done as they have to show Donovan where they are going and earn his buy in before his contract runs out. That in itself is a risk, but Ainge isn't one to shy away from risk. He holds the cards on the rebuild and knows if their is a chance he can pull it off in time.

As for Donovan demanding a trade. I don't think that is Donovan's personality. He loves basketball and will always do his best on the court. I just don't think the Knicks are a good spot for Donovan after they signed Brunson. Those 2 are good players but ultimately undersized. And if Gobert, arguably one of the best defenders in the world could not cover up for the weakness an undersized Conley/Mitchell combo created. How is Randle or anyone else going to cover for Brunson/Mitchell combo? The undersized problem is an issue and if the Knicks wanted Mitchell they shouldn't have signed Brunson IMHO.

I think they signed Brunson not thinking Donovan would be available, I think that Brunson could be flipped at the deadline.

[dr0welf]

Aingesburner sounds like he has been reading Jazzfanz and some of those a-holes on there like OneGonad. They've turned into a Donovan-hating site and took Rudy's side in the conflict.

I don't see it that way. My take is that the Jazz chemistry fell apart because of Rudy and his throwing his teammates under the bus and failing to take accountability for his atrocious ball-handling that contributed to some of the Jazz meltdowns, most notably that stinker against the Clippers when Rudy was exposed by small ball.

Quin also played a role in putting Rudy Gay in the doghouse, and I don't see how you can say the Jazz catered to Don when Quin snubbed his best buddy Eric after he had shown some excellent minutes that deserved more playing time. Quin really p'od me with his inability to adjust to small ball, especially after the FO went out and got both Gay and Paschall who should've been playing more in those situations and which consequently were a big factor in the Jazz's recent failures in the playoffs.

But I hope Fumbalina, err Gobert, works on improving his ball-handling, or at least to catch the damn ball, Rudy. I got so frustrated with him.

Anyway, with Jingles gone and Donovan on his way out, and other Jazz players to follow, my 27-year fandom seems to be coming to an end. It's the era of Ainge.

Their was a discussion between multiple Salt Lake journalist earlier this summer that brought out some of the concerns they saw during the season. Rudy Gay caused some locker room issues and created some divisions within the locker room. This and his horrible play got him benched. He had a couple games where he shot the ball well, but mostly sucked shooting, sucked passing, sucked defending, sucked in the locker room. Paschall made the small ball lineup work a couple times but unfortunately we didn't see enough of it at times when it was needed. That is on Quin.

According to Locke during practice and games, communication and high 5-ing were very visible between Gobert and Mitchell. I do think their was some frustrations on both sides but this story is way overblown.

Gobert was way better at catching the ball his last couple years then when he started. The difference is night and day. He has improved a ton on that and you can tell he has put a lot of work into it. He did struggle with physicality while trying to catch the ball. Bumping and slapping made it harder for him to concentrate unless he was controlling the contact. Therefor teams got physical with Gobert underneath and it really irritated him and made it difficult for him to be aggressive. I don't know if he will ever outgrow that. The only hope Gobert has is the refs call the over aggressive defenders for the fouls and bail Gobert out. But reality is Gobert needs to learn to deal with the focused physicality because I doubt it goes away in Minnesota.

[Trifecta47]

I think you overestimate Rudy's ball handling ability. Yes. he improved but he still wasn't good, which was why his teammates were reluctant to pass him the ball. This infuriated Rudy, but I know if I were playing with him, I also would hesitate to pass to him. The reason it got worse is that opposing teams realized this and increased the defensive pressure on him, as Orwell pointed out. The other problem with Rudy is he never took responsibility for his shortcomings and blamed his teammates -- it's a team game he would say instead of saying I need to improve.

Gay in my opinion wasn't given enough time on the court, and Quin was quick to pull him. He is a veteran with proven skills and had chemistry with Mike from previous years of playing together, but Quin didn't allow that to develop. The Jazz needed someone like him and that's why the FO got him, but Quin f'd up just as he did with Eric. I think Rudy may have influenced this because he didn't want to remain on the bench while those guys played.

In any case, Quin, Rudy, and Eric are gone, so that should tell you something. So far as Gay, I would expect he will be gone too.

[Trifecta47]

Their was a discussion between multiple Salt Lake journalist earlier this summer that brought out some of the concerns they saw during the season. Rudy Gay caused some locker room issues and created some divisions within the locker room. This and his horrible play got him benched. He had a couple games where he shot the ball well, but mostly sucked shooting, sucked passing, sucked defending, sucked in the locker room. Paschall made the small ball lineup work a couple times but unfortunately we didn't see enough of it at times when it was needed. That is on Quin.

According to Locke during practice and games, communication and high 5-ing were very visible between Gobert and Mitchell. I do think their was some frustrations on both sides but this story is way overblown.

Gobert was way better at catching the ball his last couple years then when he started. The difference is night and day. He has improved a ton on that and you can tell he has put a lot of work into it. He did struggle with physicality while trying to catch the ball. Bumping and slapping made it harder for him to concentrate unless he was controlling the contact. Therefor teams got physical with Gobert underneath and it really irritated him and made it difficult for him to be aggressive. I don't know if he will ever outgrow that. The only hope Gobert has is the refs call the over aggressive defenders for the fouls and bail Gobert out. But reality is Gobert needs to learn to deal with the focused physicality because I doubt it goes away in Minnesota.

By the way, I do think Gobert is not tough enough. With his size and strength, he should be more dominate under the rim, but apparently he is a poohsee. So many times I would see him failing at the ball to tip it in when he could easily have grabbed it and stuffed it down. That's something inside him that needs to change for him to be a HOF'r.

[ForeverRDjazz]

Give me a break, trade up for Jimmer. Yeah, I've read all the Jazz beat writers. I think Donovan started to change when the racist legislature of Utah showed its true colors and voted to ban the teaching of Critical Race Theory. It had nothing to do with his teammates. He was always a great teammate and you could tell just how they treated him in comparison to Rudy who got few or weak well wishes from teammates after the trade. And can you blame him when Quin didn't play Eric, which to me, had something to do with Rudy -- as well as the lack of PT for Gay, which I heard caused a big blowout in the locker room. If I were Don, I could understand why he started to get so disinterested on D, and let Rudy take care of it, after fumbling one pass after another and still demanding the ball.

Don't need kids be taught there bad because there white or can't achieve great things because there black. All lives matter and that should be taught in the home of every person on the planet. It has no place or need in our schools today. It only leads to more racism.

[Rauxcee]

Give me a break, trade up for Jimmer. Yeah, I've read all the Jazz beat writers. I think Donovan started to change when the racist legislature of Utah showed its true colors and voted to ban the teaching of Critical Race Theory. It had nothing to do with his teammates. He was always a great teammate and you could tell just how they treated him in comparison to Rudy who got few or weak well wishes from teammates after the trade. And can you blame him when Quin didn't play Eric, which to me, had something to do with Rudy -- as well as the lack of PT for Gay, which I heard caused a big blowout in the locker room. If I were Don, I could understand why he started to get so disinterested on D, and let Rudy take care of it, after fumbling one pass after another and still demanding the ball.

We must have been watching 2 different teams, and players the last couple years.

Donovan hasn't played defense since the day he got here. He was been abysmal defensively his entire career. Every off-season, every game, every paly off game, he talks about improving defense, but then does nothing about it. He is just running his mouth to placate people. He didn't start to get disinterested in defense- he never was interested to begin with.

Quinn didn't play Eric or Gay because they were hot trash. They brought nothing to the team on either end of the floor. Yes they both had a couple games where they had a decent game, but overall they played like ass and had no business being on the floor outside of garbage time. And if Mitchell thinks his buddies should get playing time just because they are his buddies, then Ainge can't trade him fast enough.

Also Mitchell averages more turnovers than Gobert. When you compare that he only gets 4.5 assists to his 2.8 turnover average that is terrible. Not to mention he was terrible in the clutch. Maybe someone has his actual clutch time stats- but the eye test shows he was also bricking shots, turning the ball over, making bad decisions, and missing important free throws. Not to mention the amount of times he would take a 30 foot 3pter early in the shot clock, take a step back jumper with defenders on him, or force up a floater- all shots he wasn't great at. He is quit often selfish and plays hero play WAY to much. He didn't just not pass to Rudy, he didn't pass to any of his teammates.

Mitchell has also openly stated his support for players demanding trades and choosing where they want to play. I don't remember the quote, but he openly supported Anthony Davis when Davis was demanding the Lakers, and only the Lakers. Mitchell has also made plenty of little comments the last 2-3 years about the franchise and it's direction- even when he has been 100% wrong in his assessment.

The FO has been catering to Mitchell since his rookie season- and now Ainge appears to be over it. They realized he isn't good enough to be the best player on a championship team. He will be traded between this off-season and next off-season- but won't be on the Jazz next year and I would bet money on it.

I hold no ill will to Mitchell. I like him. He can be a fun player to watch. He is very flawed though and I'm personally over his hero ball, diva attitude the last few years, and his lack of improvement on any other aspect of his game. It's been 5 years and he is about as interested in improving other parts of his game as Ben Simmons is. Besides, Jazz might was well get this best value for him now, because after the trade deadline, his value will decrease due to the years on his contract.

Obviously you see something different when you watch the team versus what I do, so we'll agree to disagree.

[pickIBL]

We must have been watching 2 different teams, and players the last couple years.

Donovan hasn't played defense since the day he got here. He was been abysmal defensively his entire career. Every off-season, every game, every paly off game, he talks about improving defense, but then does nothing about it. He is just running his mouth to placate people. He didn't start to get disinterested in defense- he never was interested to begin with.

This would be a great year for a new coach to implement a new system where everyone would have to buy in. ML Carr's last year in Boston was a 15 win season. When Pitino came in the roster turned over and he got them to 36 wins. Not terrible considering the circumstances. They pressed a lot. Forced the Nuggets into 30 turnovers. Beat the Jordan Bulls early on. Went from basically the worst defense in the league to average.

I believe Bill Simmons has been quoted saying the press succeeded and considering the circumstances the team overachieved that year.

Watch on YouTube

Basically we are looking at a 1-2-2 zone press where they run back and revert to man to man.

In today's NBA I can see it working. You aren't worried about getting posted up so you can run out guards and wings. In most cases the goal is to slow the offense down so they take a more challenging shot. But you also selectively trap and shoot for steals.

You could run a 3 guard, 2 forward setup with a a flurry of substitutes to keep the pressure high. If it wasn't over done it could work. Nobody would be ready for it and there'd probably be some embarrassing missed travel calls.

Weaknesses are break downs and over jumping on traps and passes. Also defensive rebounding. Strengths are you don't let superstars strut down the court and go to their spot. It shorts the amount of usable shot clock and puts some level of pressure on for 90 feet. I seriously never understood why a team without superstars wouldn't implement it.

Also means more long rebounds for easier buckets. And more turnovers for easier looks. Good things for a team without superstars.

[Trifecta47]

Don't need kids be taught there bad because there white or can't achieve great things because there black. All lives matter and that should be taught in the home of every person on the planet. It has no place or need in our schools today. It only leads to more racism.

You don't understand what CRT is. It's teaching the truth about American history that is ignored in the history books; it's teaching what the Civil War was really about; it's about showing that despite the Civil War, the racism has never abated; it's about understanding the origin of the racism in America that continues today.

It has nothing to do with black or white lives matter. All lives matter, but BLM is about the fact in America that white lives matter more than black lives.

Get educated.

[Trifecta47]

We must have been watching 2 different teams, and players the last couple years.

Donovan hasn't played defense since the day he got here. He was been abysmal defensively his entire career. Every off-season, every game, every paly off game, he talks about improving defense, but then does nothing about it. He is just running his mouth to placate people. He didn't start to get disinterested in defense- he never was interested to begin with.

Quinn didn't play Eric or Gay because they were hot trash. They brought nothing to the team on either end of the floor. Yes they both had a couple games where they had a decent game, but overall they played like ass and had no business being on the floor outside of garbage time. And if Mitchell thinks his buddies should get playing time just because they are his buddies, then Ainge can't trade him fast enough.

Also Mitchell averages more turnovers than Gobert. When you compare that he only gets 4.5 assists to his 2.8 turnover average that is terrible. Not to mention he was terrible in the clutch. Maybe someone has his actual clutch time stats- but the eye test shows he was also bricking shots, turning the ball over, making bad decisions, and missing important free throws. Not to mention the amount of times he would take a 30 foot 3pter early in the shot clock, take a step back jumper with defenders on him, or force up a floater- all shots he wasn't great at. He is quit often selfish and plays hero play WAY to much. He didn't just not pass to Rudy, he didn't pass to any of his teammates.

Mitchell has also openly stated his support for players demanding trades and choosing where they want to play. I don't remember the quote, but he openly supported Anthony Davis when Davis was demanding the Lakers, and only the Lakers. Mitchell has also made plenty of little comments the last 2-3 years about the franchise and it's direction- even when he has been 100% wrong in his assessment.

The FO has been catering to Mitchell since his rookie season- and now Ainge appears to be over it. They realized he isn't good enough to be the best player on a championship team. He will be traded between this off-season and next off-season- but won't be on the Jazz next year and I would bet money on it.

I hold no ill will to Mitchell. I like him. He can be a fun player to watch. He is very flawed though and I'm personally over his hero ball, diva attitude the last few years, and his lack of improvement on any other aspect of his game. It's been 5 years and he is about as interested in improving other parts of his game as Ben Simmons is. Besides, Jazz might was well get this best value for him now, because after the trade deadline, his value will decrease due to the years on his contract.

Obviously you see something different when you watch the team versus what I do, so we'll agree to disagree.

Considering I've seen almost every game of Rudy and Don's career, yes we have seen two different teams. Yes, Don's D was bad this year, especially at the end of the season, but he has never been a bad defender. In fact, one of the problems was that it was Quin's strategy to funnel players into the paint against Rudy. However, when teams caught on and realized that they could expose Rudy with small ball, Quin failed to adjust. And I do disagree that Gay and Eric were hot trash. In fact, if you recall, Eric had several good outings in a row and the beat writers and commentators were saying he deserved more minutes. Gay just never got the chance, and then he got into it with Quin and went into Quin's doghouse. Guess you missed that. And so far as Don's comments, he has never said anything to suggest he wanted to go to the Knicks or any other teams, though some idiots like OneGonad on Jazzfanz was obsessed about this, and like Trump's big lie kept repeating it until people believed it. Show me a quote and even an innuendo when Don said he wanted to play for the Knicks.

[pickIBL]

Don't need kids be taught there bad because there white or can't achieve great things because there black. All lives matter and that should be taught in the home of every person on the planet. It has no place or need in our schools today. It only leads to more racism.

You don't understand what CRT is. It's teaching the truth about American history that is ignored in the history books; it's teaching what the Civil War was really about; it's about showing that despite the Civil War, the racism has never abated; it's about understanding the origin of the racism in America that continues today.

It has nothing to do with black or white lives matter. All lives matter, but BLM is about the fact in America that white lives matter more than black lives.

Get educated.

I'm sure this isn't the place for politics. But what I can tell you is that I am always learning something new. As a professional sales guy who trains I always try to look at and understand everyone's position. It allows for compromise, finding middle ground, and ultimately closing a deal.

The origin of the word slave came from slav. And I assure you the slavs are a super white people. As a history buff I have a pretty good understanding of the civil war. It's quite possible the poster is also a history buff and just has come to a different set of conclusions than you. As a moderate left guy I can assure you that your methods will only drive people socially and politically in the opposite direction you'd like to see them go.

As someone who has traveled around the world I can assure you that the rest of the planet isn't more involved. In fact many immigrants would be the first to tell you how in so many ways our society is more evolved and they are extremely happy for the opportunity here. And our society is more diverse and better for it. Get educated is not an argument. It's the lack of one.

[AingesBurner]

Don't need kids be taught there bad because there white or can't achieve great things because there black. All lives matter and that should be taught in the home of every person on the planet. It has no place or need in our schools today. It only leads to more racism.

You don't understand what CRT is. It's teaching the truth about American history that is ignored in the history books; it's teaching what the Civil War was really about; it's about showing that despite the Civil War, the racism has never abated; it's about understanding the origin of the racism in America that continues today.

It has nothing to do with black or white lives matter. All lives matter, but BLM is about the fact in America that white lives matter more than black lives.

Get educated.

CRT is still skewed history. Racism exists in all parts of the world, it’s just not exclusive to white people or America. If you want to get into a philosophical debate about this then head to the Current Affairs board. The Jazz board is strictly Jazz basketball.

[AingesBurner]

We must have been watching 2 different teams, and players the last couple years.

Donovan hasn't played defense since the day he got here. He was been abysmal defensively his entire career. Every off-season, every game, every paly off game, he talks about improving defense, but then does nothing about it. He is just running his mouth to placate people. He didn't start to get disinterested in defense- he never was interested to begin with.

Quinn didn't play Eric or Gay because they were hot trash. They brought nothing to the team on either end of the floor. Yes they both had a couple games where they had a decent game, but overall they played like ass and had no business being on the floor outside of garbage time. And if Mitchell thinks his buddies should get playing time just because they are his buddies, then Ainge can't trade him fast enough.

Also Mitchell averages more turnovers than Gobert. When you compare that he only gets 4.5 assists to his 2.8 turnover average that is terrible. Not to mention he was terrible in the clutch. Maybe someone has his actual clutch time stats- but the eye test shows he was also bricking shots, turning the ball over, making bad decisions, and missing important free throws. Not to mention the amount of times he would take a 30 foot 3pter early in the shot clock, take a step back jumper with defenders on him, or force up a floater- all shots he wasn't great at. He is quit often selfish and plays hero play WAY to much. He didn't just not pass to Rudy, he didn't pass to any of his teammates.

Mitchell has also openly stated his support for players demanding trades and choosing where they want to play. I don't remember the quote, but he openly supported Anthony Davis when Davis was demanding the Lakers, and only the Lakers. Mitchell has also made plenty of little comments the last 2-3 years about the franchise and it's direction- even when he has been 100% wrong in his assessment.

The FO has been catering to Mitchell since his rookie season- and now Ainge appears to be over it. They realized he isn't good enough to be the best player on a championship team. He will be traded between this off-season and next off-season- but won't be on the Jazz next year and I would bet money on it.

I hold no ill will to Mitchell. I like him. He can be a fun player to watch. He is very flawed though and I'm personally over his hero ball, diva attitude the last few years, and his lack of improvement on any other aspect of his game. It's been 5 years and he is about as interested in improving other parts of his game as Ben Simmons is. Besides, Jazz might was well get this best value for him now, because after the trade deadline, his value will decrease due to the years on his contract.

Obviously you see something different when you watch the team versus what I do, so we'll agree to disagree.

Considering I've seen almost every game of Rudy and Don's career, yes we have seen two different teams. Yes, Don's D was bad this year, especially at the end of the season, but he has never been a bad defender. In fact, one of the problems was that it was Quin's strategy to funnel players into the paint against Rudy. However, when teams caught on and realized that they could expose Rudy with small ball, Quin failed to adjust. And I do disagree that Gay and Eric were hot trash. In fact, if you recall, Eric had several good outings in a row and the beat writers and commentators were saying he deserved more minutes. Gay just never got the chance, and then he got into it with Quin and went into Quin's doghouse. Guess you missed that. And so far as Don's comments, he has never said anything to suggest he wanted to go to the Knicks or any other teams, though some idiots like OneGonad on Jazzfanz was obsessed about this, and like Trump's big lie kept repeating it until people believed it. Show me a quote and even an innuendo when Don said he wanted to play for the Knicks.

Enough with the politics.

[Inigo Montoya]

You pass out drunk one time and this happens...

Everyone, please let's move on from the politics. If you want, you can continue that discussion in the Current Affairs board.

[red4hf]

I'm sure it's just me, but it feels like this Donovan thing is being dragged out..... Would be interesting to see what happens if it's time for training camp and he has not been dealt.......

[Inigo Montoya]

I think the Jazz will play for time. It certainly looks like they're aiming for a rebuild so I doubt they'll sign new players to large or long contracts. If a Mitchell trade drags on, they'll start the season with him and have him play. The Knicks, meanwhile, might get nervous and feel the pressure if they don't have a good opening to the season. I'd advise them to use the time they have now to find trades for Brunson in case they do end up trading for Mitchell because it doesn't make sense to have them both on the roster.