Future Free Agent Thread, Part 2

KqWIN · Post #421 » by **KqWIN** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:37 am

Bojan and Clarkson are probably our two most overrated players. I think they both have a reputation around the league that exceeds their actual play. Kuzma definitely has his warts, but this is the type of trade the Jazz need to make. The Jazz missed their best chance to win with this group and it was obvious in the playoffs that this current group can't win with their flaws. Getting some younger fresh faces with some upside is the way to go.

TO11 · Post #422 » by **TO11** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:54 pm

Absolute Keeps: Gobert, Mitchell, O’Neal
Only Trade if it’s a clear win: Bogdanovic
Aggressively Shop: Clarkson, Ingles, Favors

Clarkson: Highest value he might ever have right now, decent contract, may yield a good return. Overall low efficiency, doesn’t add much defensively.

Ingles: Great shooter, ball handler, good basketball IQ. Last year of contract, absolute liability on defense in playoffs and has just generally struggled in the playoffs the last few years. May yield a decent player.

Favors: Fan favorite, I imagine a great presence in the locker room. Decent backup center. Probably the hardest to move, I imagine he is overpaid right now. Probably wouldn’t yield much in return. Unfortunately his weaknesses are what the nba is moving away from…

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TO11 · Post #423 » by **TO11** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:00 pm

sip wrote:Bogey is worth a hell of a lot more than Kuzma on their own. Now depending on who is sitting there at 22 I might consider Kuzma, KCP and 22 for Bogey and Favors. Right now I have a bit of an infatuation with Trey Murphy but Tre Mann would look pretty good as well. So in the end we trade Bogey and an unplayable big in Favors for a stretch big and a solid defensive wing plus whoever we get in the draft. If we could get Trey Murphy then I think he could be a Cameron Johnson type of player for us. We definitely could use that type of player.

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I mean I would do this trade all day, but there is no way the Lakers do imo

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Post #424 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:02 pm

I actually think that Clarkson is very important to the Jazz. Other than Mitchell, he's the only one who can create his own shot and get buckets by himself.

CAE15 · Post #425 » by **CAE15** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:45 pm

While I'm intrigued by Kuzma. I can easily see him complaining about his role on the team or pouting about touches or not getting enough credit. Sure it helps that he played at the U but he has taken on the LA life since his career has began. This is the same guy that said "I'd rather be talked about bad in LA, than irrelevant in Orlando" I also worry about him potentially getting into Don's head and trying to get him to leave to like a Miami or New York. Not saying it's likely or anything but I don't think Kuzma is all about being the best player he can be, he seems very much about the perks of being an nba player.

sip · Post #426 » by **sip** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:37 pm

TO11 wrote:
sip wrote:Bogey is worth a hell of a lot more than Kuzma on their own. Now depending on who is sitting there at 22 I might consider Kuzma, KCP and 22 for Bogey and Favors. Right now I have a bit of an infatuation with Trey Murphy but Tre Mann would look pretty good as well. So in the end we trade Bogey and an unplayable big in Favors for a stretch big and a solid defensive wing plus whoever we get in the draft. If we could get Trey Murphy then I think he could be a Cameron Johnson type of player for us. We definitely could use that type of player.

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I mean I would do this trade all day, but there is no way the Lakers do imo

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The Lakers would jump at the chance to pair one of the best shooters in the league with LeBron and AD.

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babyjax13 · Post #427 » by **babyjax13** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:58 pm

Spurs reportedly open to trading DeJounte Murray and/or Derrick White. I think either of them would be a great target if Conley leaves (especially White).

tugs · Post #428 » by **tugs** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:27 pm

Always been a fan of White. Tall PG with great all around game. I also think he's more realistic at a lower price point given his health history and Murray's stellar season

Huh what are the odds, Clarkson is from San Antonio

tugs · Post #429 » by **tugs** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:35 pm

Here's a forgotten what could have been - Kevin Knox

TO11 · Post #430 » by **TO11** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:59 am

sip wrote:
TO11 wrote:
sip wrote:Bogey is worth a hell of a lot more than Kuzma on their own. Now depending on who is sitting there at 22 I might consider Kuzma, KCP and 22 for Bogey and Favors. Right now I have a bit of an infatuation with Trey Murphy but Tre Mann would look pretty good as well. So in the end we trade Bogey and an unplayable big in Favors for a stretch big and a solid defensive wing plus whoever we get in the draft. If we could get Trey Murphy then I think he could be a Cameron Johnson type of player for us. We definitely could use that type of player.

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I mean I would do this trade all day, but there is no way the Lakers do imo

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The Lakers would jump at the chance to pair one of the best shooters in the league with LeBron and AD.

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KCP shot 41% from the 3pt while Bogey was 39%, bogey is getting paid 4-5m more than KCP each year of his contract and KCP plays better defense...then the other part of the trade is Kuzma and a 1st round pick for an already aged D. Favs who also is getting paid 9m a year for 2 more years. I'm not seeing this at all

sip · Post #431 » by **sip** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:01 am

TO11 wrote:
sip wrote:
TO11 wrote:I mean I would do this trade all day, but there is no way the Lakers do imo

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The Lakers would jump at the chance to pair one of the best shooters in the league with LeBron and AD.

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KCP shot 41% from the 3pt while Bogey was 39%, bogey is getting paid 4-5m more than KCP each year of his contract and KCP plays better defense...then the other part of the trade is Kuzma and a 1st round pick for an already aged D. Favs who also is getting paid 9m a year for 2 more years. I'm not seeing this at all

No one in their right mind believes KCP is even close to the shooter that Bojan is. Not even up for discussion.

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TO11 · Post #432 » by **TO11** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:04 am

sip wrote:
TO11 wrote:
sip wrote:The Lakers would jump at the chance to pair one of the best shooters in the league with LeBron and AD.

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KCP shot 41% from the 3pt while Bogey was 39%, bogey is getting paid 4-5m more than KCP each year of his contract and KCP plays better defense...then the other part of the trade is Kuzma and a 1st round pick for an already aged D. Favs who also is getting paid 9m a year for 2 more years. I'm not seeing this at all
No one in their right mind believes KCP is even close to the shooter that Bojan is. Not even up for discussion.

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I didn't say he was a better shooter, I'm just trying to point out why I think the Lakers would really hesitate..also keep in mind that KCP is 4 years younger...

tugs · Post #433 » by **tugs** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:35 am

Can't ignore Klutch Sports ties

Shooting percentages shouldn't hold much when comparing KCP and Bogey as Bogey has a more diverse arsenal

Wolverine · Post #434 » by **Wolverine** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:23 am

I think Conley is more replaceable than Bogey, we should’ve had a higher usage rate for bogey v the clips imo

tugs · Post #435 » by **tugs** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:31 am

Caruso please

KqWIN · Post #436 » by **KqWIN** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:00 pm

The Jazz need to know what's happening with Conley. If he needs time to make decisions, they have to move on without him and not be late to other moves. If he's gone, I would not mind keeping one of Clarkson/Bogey but I think at least one should be moved. If Conley is back, I wouldn't mind seeing both moved.

I'm not sure who has higher value around the league. Clarkson is younger and is fairly popular player (amongst fans and other players), but he likely has some detractors in FO's who would prefer Bogey.

Either way, I think the Jazz need to flip one of these scoring only players for a guy who could potentially be an asset both ways. Someone entering their second contract would be ideal. Kuzma and Oubre I think are very gettable. I'd like to see the Jazz flex some power (Miami Heat style) and get either Lonzo or Josh Hart to force their way to Utah.

stitches · Post #437 » by **stitches** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:27 pm

KqWIN wrote:The Jazz need to know what's happening with Conley. If he needs time to make decisions, they have to move on without him and not be late to other moves. If he's gone, I would not mind keeping one of Clarkson/Bogey but I think at least one should be moved. If Conley is back, I wouldn't mind seeing both moved.

I'm not sure who has higher value around the league. Clarkson is younger and is fairly popular player (amongst fans and other players), but he likely has some detractors in FO's who would prefer Bogey.

Either way, I think the Jazz need to flip one of these scoring only players for a guy who could potentially be an asset both ways. Someone entering their second contract would be ideal. Kuzma and Oubre I think are very gettable. I'd like to see the Jazz flex some power (Miami Heat style) and get either Lonzo or Josh Hart to force their way to Utah.

If Lonzo's shooting is a thing... (still not sure about that), I think he's pretty close to perfect fit next to Mitchell. He's a smart guard with size, who loves to move the ball. Has some playmaking ability... has some defensive ability... The more I think about it, the more I feel like if we are going to replace Conley, he should be target no.1 for us. Also... did I mention - he's a big guard who can defend and rebound... and the ball doesn't stick to his hands?

AingesBurner · Post #438 » by **AingesBurner** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:32 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:The Jazz need to know what's happening with Conley. If he needs time to make decisions, they have to move on without him and not be late to other moves. If he's gone, I would not mind keeping one of Clarkson/Bogey but I think at least one should be moved. If Conley is back, I wouldn't mind seeing both moved.

I'm not sure who has higher value around the league. Clarkson is younger and is fairly popular player (amongst fans and other players), but he likely has some detractors in FO's who would prefer Bogey.

Either way, I think the Jazz need to flip one of these scoring only players for a guy who could potentially be an asset both ways. Someone entering their second contract would be ideal. Kuzma and Oubre I think are very gettable. I'd like to see the Jazz flex some power (Miami Heat style) and get either Lonzo or Josh Hart to force their way to Utah.

If Lonzo's shooting is a thing... (still not sure about that), I think he's pretty close to perfect fit next to Mitchell. He's a smart guard with size, who loves to move the ball. Has some playmaking ability... has some defensive ability... The more I think about it, the more I feel like if we are going to replace Conley, he should be target no.1 for us. Also... did I mention - he's a big guard who can defend and rebound... and the ball doesn't stick to his hands?

Lonzo would be a real get but we would have to move more contracts to make it happe .

stitches · Post #439 » by **stitches** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:37 pm

GobertReport wrote:
stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:The Jazz need to know what's happening with Conley. If he needs time to make decisions, they have to move on without him and not be late to other moves. If he's gone, I would not mind keeping one of Clarkson/Bogey but I think at least one should be moved. If Conley is back, I wouldn't mind seeing both moved.

I'm not sure who has higher value around the league. Clarkson is younger and is fairly popular player (amongst fans and other players), but he likely has some detractors in FO's who would prefer Bogey.

Either way, I think the Jazz need to flip one of these scoring only players for a guy who could potentially be an asset both ways. Someone entering their second contract would be ideal. Kuzma and Oubre I think are very gettable. I'd like to see the Jazz flex some power (Miami Heat style) and get either Lonzo or Josh Hart to force their way to Utah.

If Lonzo's shooting is a thing... (still not sure about that), I think he's pretty close to perfect fit next to Mitchell. He's a smart guard with size, who loves to move the ball. Has some playmaking ability... has some defensive ability... The more I think about it, the more I feel like if we are going to replace Conley, he should be target no.1 for us. Also... did I mention - he's a big guard who can defend and rebound... and the ball doesn't stick to his hands?

Lonzo would be a real get but we would have to move more contracts to make it happe .

Yeah, our cap situation doesn't make this thing easy. Maybe a SnT of some sort would do it, but we have to ask KqWIN on whether that's even possible and in what fashion...

is double SnT allowed? There were some rules about the value counting more for one of the teams than for the other... I don't know. It's complicated for me.

KqWIN · Post #440 » by **KqWIN** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:06 am

stitches wrote:
GobertReport wrote:
stitches wrote:If Lonzo's shooting is a thing... (still not sure about that), I think he's pretty close to perfect fit next to Mitchell. He's a smart guard with size, who loves to move the ball. Has some playmaking ability... has some defensive ability... The more I think about it, the more I feel like if we are going to replace Conley, he should be target no.1 for us. Also... did I mention - he's a big guard who can defend and rebound... and the ball doesn't stick to his hands?

Lonzo would be a real get but we would have to move more contracts to make it happe .

Yeah, our cap situation doesn't make this thing easy. Maybe a SnT of some sort would do it, but we have to ask KqWIN on whether that's even possible and in what fashion...

is double SnT allowed? There were some rules about the value counting more for one of the teams than for the other... I don't know. It's complicated for me.

Double sign and trades are allowed unless I'm mistaken. The money concern here would still be the tax apron, but the scenario where incoming/outgoing salary is different only applies to a player who recently signed an extension IIRC.

The toughest part here is still convincing Lonzo to play here. Mitchell is friends with Lonzo, maybe if we we can get a another friend on board like Kuzma or Hart (if he wants to buy in too). But Lonzo is highly sought after for a reason. He's a great complimentary player and fits like a glove next to superstars. There are definitely question marks about him, but there are also question marks about Bogey, Clarkson, ect. Maybe not question marks but confirmed liabilities when it comes to playoff time.

I think the most realistic scenario for this to happen would be if Conley leaves and we do a S&T with Bogey for Lonzo.