2023 NBA Draft Prospects

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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#421 » by tugs » Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:16 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
tugs wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:Nothing against Black, but if the Jazz draft him at #9 (let alone trade up from there to draft him), I'd be disappointed. I get the infatuation with tall point guards but it's getting ridiculous that 6"2 point guards are considered small nowadays.

When you look at it, how many 6"7 point guards are out there that are actually really good? The only ones I could come up with are Cade Cunningham (6"6) who I'm still not sold on, and Tyrese Haliburton (6"5). The rest of the point guards in the league are smaller than that.
Josh Giddey. Although Black is a step slower it seems, but he makes up for aggressiveness

He plays off the ball a lot, and not really as a 'traditional' PG. But even if we include him, that's 3 out of the entire league.
Touche
bkohler wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:Nothing against Black, but if the Jazz draft him at #9 (let alone trade up from there to draft him), I'd be disappointed. I get the infatuation with tall point guards but it's getting ridiculous that 6"2 point guards are considered small nowadays.

When you look at it, how many 6"7 point guards are out there that are actually really good? The only ones I could come up with are Cade Cunningham (6"6) who I'm still not sold on, and Tyrese Haliburton (6"5). The rest of the point guards in the league are smaller than that.



I've said this before but isn't the idea of Black what made Dante Exum so intriguing? Good defender, who can pass, has great athleticism but can't shoot? Seems like you could have the same thing by bringing someone like Exum back for far cheaper than the cost of the 9th pick.
That is true. And now they have Dunn and THT who share the same merits, too many unknowns
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#422 » by bkohler » Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:22 pm

tugs wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
tugs wrote:Josh Giddey. Although Black is a step slower it seems, but he makes up for aggressiveness

He plays off the ball a lot, and not really as a 'traditional' PG. But even if we include him, that's 3 out of the entire league.
Touche
bkohler wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:Nothing against Black, but if the Jazz draft him at #9 (let alone trade up from there to draft him), I'd be disappointed. I get the infatuation with tall point guards but it's getting ridiculous that 6"2 point guards are considered small nowadays.

When you look at it, how many 6"7 point guards are out there that are actually really good? The only ones I could come up with are Cade Cunningham (6"6) who I'm still not sold on, and Tyrese Haliburton (6"5). The rest of the point guards in the league are smaller than that.



I've said this before but isn't the idea of Black what made Dante Exum so intriguing? Good defender, who can pass, has great athleticism but can't shoot? Seems like you could have the same thing by bringing someone like Exum back for far cheaper than the cost of the 9th pick.
That is true. And now they have Dunn and THT who share the same merits, too many unknowns



I think the PG position is the 'swing' position for this year's team. If we see the path forward to be a playoff team, you find an upgrade there; if not, I think you see what Dunn gives you in a bigger role. We need to address our PG position, but we also need to figure out our wing rotation, and one of those is more important in today's NBA. I'm not one that is 100% opposed to Black, I just think there's a good chance that a.) he ends up being a wing instead of a PG b.) he's not measurably better than other players who are available at 9 (or even later, ie: Wallace, Bufkin, etc) c.) he's not worth trading up for
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#423 » by zero24gravity » Thu Jun 22, 2023 4:04 pm

I like Black, and wouldn't be mad with him at #9, but that also depends on who else is on the board.

Assuming no trades, my hope is that they take BPA at #9 (Walker, Hendricks, Coulibaly), then one of Anthony Black or Cason Wallace is available at #16. Seems like as draft day approaches, that Black is rumored to have moved to the top 10, though, so not sure how realistic that is anymore. ...then with #28, either GG or Whitehead (or maybe Murray) slip to them.

I suspect a trade will happen with the Jazz, which will flip things on it's head and make all the hopes & predictions obsolete. I'll be glued to the TV for this draft, no doubt.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#424 » by zero24gravity » Thu Jun 22, 2023 5:54 pm

This mock from The Ringer might be the absolute best case scenario I've seen in any mock.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

Triple W's; Whitmore, Wallace, Whitehead. WOW!
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#425 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:00 pm

zero24gravity wrote:This mock from The Ringer might be the absolute best case scenario I've seen in any mock.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

Triple W's; Whitmore, Wallace, Whitehead. WOW!

I would be esctatic with that result!
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#426 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:01 pm

I read this morning on HoopsRumor that the Jazz and Pistons have had discussions about the #5 pick, but that what Detroit is asking for is prohibitively expensive and unless their demands come down there probably won't be a trade.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#427 » by Inigo Montoya » Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:02 pm

zero24gravity wrote:This mock from The Ringer might be the absolute best case scenario I've seen in any mock.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

Triple W's; Whitmore, Wallace, Whitehead. WOW!

That would be amazing. We can only hope.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#428 » by AingesBurner » Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:15 pm

After listening to Tony Jones, I don’t think I am on the Whitmore train. I am on the Anthony Black train, dude plays above his years. If he learns how to shoot, remember Horny is on staff, I see a tall Chris Paul.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#429 » by Inigo Montoya » Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:25 pm

AingesBurner wrote:After listening to Tony Jones, I don’t think I am on the Whitmore train. I am on the Anthony Black train, dude plays above his years. If he learns how to shoot, remember Horny is on staff, I see a tall Chris Paul.

I see a more athletic Greivis Vásquez.

What did Jones say about Whitmore?
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#430 » by AingesBurner » Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:50 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
AingesBurner wrote:After listening to Tony Jones, I don’t think I am on the Whitmore train. I am on the Anthony Black train, dude plays above his years. If he learns how to shoot, remember Horny is on staff, I see a tall Chris Paul.

I see a more athletic Greivis Vásquez.

What did Jones say about Whitmore?


He basically said that Whitmore will score 15-20 PPG for his career but those PPG will not lead to winning. Whitmore was also a ball hog in college.

He really likes Black and thinks he can improve his shooting form. Tony thinks he’s a a high IQ player, who can do the little things that leads to wins. His team had lack of shooting but was +15 when he was on the court. I would say worst case scenario he is Rajon Rondo and best case is tall CP3.

He also really likes Ausar, not the athlete Amen is but much better shooter. Will likely be a PG for some teams, including the Jazz.

He said if Walker reaches 75% of his ceiling then he is prime Paul Millsap and if he reaches 100% then he is Kawhi Leonard.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#431 » by AingesBurner » Thu Jun 22, 2023 6:52 pm

Jones also said that Ausar is a gym rat that eats, lives, and sleeps basketball. I would imagine he is Utahs first choice.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#432 » by Inigo Montoya » Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:30 pm

AingesBurner wrote:He basically said that Whitmore will score 15-20 PPG for his career but those PPG will not lead to winning. Whitmore was also a ball hog in college.

He really likes Black and thinks he can improve his shooting form. Tony thinks he’s a a high IQ player, who can do the little things that leads to wins. His team had lack of shooting but was +15 when he was on the court. I would say worst case scenario he is Rajon Rondo and best case is tall CP3.

He also really likes Ausar, not the athlete Amen is but much better shooter. Will likely be a PG for some teams, including the Jazz.

He said if Walker reaches 75% of his ceiling then he is prime Paul Millsap and if he reaches 100% then he is Kawhi Leonard.


Eh. I'd rather take an 18-year old gifted scorer with all the physical tools and teach him how to share the ball and play within a system than take a player who can't shoot and has a bad AST/TO ratio but is billed as a PG. I'm not looking to turn Whitmore into John Stockton, and remember that he isn't going to be the man on the Jazz right away and will have to defer to other players, unlike in college where his team wasn't very good. Also, it's about how you use him. Markkanen never averaged more than 1.9 assists per game and he's still awesome--I don't hear anything about how he doesn't pass the ball.

As for Black, worst case can't be Rondo, who is a hall of fame player probably. If anything, worst case is Dante Exum--great length and physical tools, willing passer, but out of the league. Also, I really don't like Black's AST/TO ratio: 3.9 assists and 3 turnovers in 35 minutes. That's a far cry from CP3 or Rondo.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#433 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:35 pm

AingesBurner wrote:
He said if Walker reaches 75% of his ceiling then he is prime Paul Millsap and if he reaches 100% then he is Kawhi Leonard.

I am really high on Walker. He has an all around game without really much that he would need to develop out of thin air (such as shooting or passing/playmaking or defense as with other prospects). I have a hard time not seeing him become Millsap 2.0, which would be amazing since Millsap was a 4X All Star in his prime.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#434 » by AingesBurner » Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:50 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
AingesBurner wrote:
He said if Walker reaches 75% of his ceiling then he is prime Paul Millsap and if he reaches 100% then he is Kawhi Leonard.

I am really high on Walker. He has an all around game without really much that he would need to develop out of thin air (such as shooting or passing/playmaking or defense as with other prospects). I have a hard time not seeing him become Millsap 2.0, which would be amazing since Millsap was a 4X All Star in his prime.


Which is why Tony likes him so much.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#435 » by AingesBurner » Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:51 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
AingesBurner wrote:He basically said that Whitmore will score 15-20 PPG for his career but those PPG will not lead to winning. Whitmore was also a ball hog in college.

He really likes Black and thinks he can improve his shooting form. Tony thinks he’s a a high IQ player, who can do the little things that leads to wins. His team had lack of shooting but was +15 when he was on the court. I would say worst case scenario he is Rajon Rondo and best case is tall CP3.

He also really likes Ausar, not the athlete Amen is but much better shooter. Will likely be a PG for some teams, including the Jazz.

He said if Walker reaches 75% of his ceiling then he is prime Paul Millsap and if he reaches 100% then he is Kawhi Leonard.


Eh. I'd rather take an 18-year old gifted scorer with all the physical tools and teach him how to share the ball and play within a system than take a player who can't shoot and has a bad AST/TO ratio but is billed as a PG. I'm not looking to turn Whitmore into John Stockton, and remember that he isn't going to be the man on the Jazz right away and will have to defer to other players, unlike in college where his team wasn't very good. Also, it's about how you use him. Markkanen never averaged more than 1.9 assists per game and he's still awesome--I don't hear anything about how he doesn't pass the ball.

As for Black, worst case can't be Rondo, who is a hall of fame player probably. If anything, worst case is Dante Exum--great length and physical tools, willing passer, but out of the league. Also, I really don't like Black's AST/TO ratio: 3.9 assists and 3 turnovers in 35 minutes. That's a far cry from CP3 or Rondo.


We will see. Tony said on Checketts show that Utah has 3 guys on the top of their board and has been sworn to secrecy as to who they are.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#436 » by Inigo Montoya » Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:54 pm

AingesBurner wrote:We will see. Tony said on Checketts show that Utah has 3 guys on the top of their board and has been sworn to secrecy as to who they are.


I know the winning lottery numbers but I was sworn to secrecy.

Just kidding of course, I like Tony Jones.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#437 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:58 pm

Has Tony Jones supplanted Locke as the insider giving obtuse, or not so obtuse, signals?
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#438 » by AingesBurner » Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:06 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:Has Tony Jones supplanted Locke as the insider giving obtuse, or not so obtuse, signals?


He’s always been the Jazz insider, Locke is the teams propaganda machine.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#439 » by AingesBurner » Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:06 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
AingesBurner wrote:We will see. Tony said on Checketts show that Utah has 3 guys on the top of their board and has been sworn to secrecy as to who they are.


I know the winning lottery numbers but I was sworn to secrecy.

Just kidding of course, I like Tony Jones.


I wonder who those three guys are. I would guess they are Walker, Ausar, and Black.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft Prospects 

Post#440 » by SoCalJazzFan » Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:14 pm

AingesBurner wrote:
SoCalJazzFan wrote:Has Tony Jones supplanted Locke as the insider giving obtuse, or not so obtuse, signals?


He’s always been the Jazz insider, Locke is the teams propaganda machine.

If that is the case, the Jazz waaay prefer Wallace or Bufkin over Black.

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