Trade Ideas for This Season

[AingesBurner]

UTA out: Conley, 2 of the lesser 23 1st of their 3, and a 2nd
UTA in: Ayton S&T

BKN out: KD
BKN in: Conley, Bridges, Johnson, 2 UTA 1sts, 4 PHX 1st, 3 PHX swap, and Utah 2nd

PHX out: Ayton S&T, Bridges, Johnson, 4 unprotected 1sts, and 3 unprotected swaps

Why for Utah: Ainge tells PHX and BKN the only way he is sending out 2 1sts is if BKN takes Conley. Utah gets a starting C

Why for Brooklyn: Get max value for KD

Why for Phoenix: They go to the finals again

[red4hf]

Is Ayton worth it? I mean in 2023 Jazz could have a boatload of cap space, is Ayton really a building block for us?

[SoCalJazzFan]

Is Ayton worth it? I mean in 2023 Jazz could have a boatload of cap space, is Ayton really a building block for us?

If the Jazz trade Conley for Ayton, and they pay Ayton $30M, they would still only have $84M in guaranteed and player option salary, or at least $40M in cap space. If they pick up all the team options and Clarkson and Gay opt in, they would still have nearly $15M in cap space.

Is Ayton worth it? He is really good, but in a position that is increasingly less important. However, who are the Jazz going to attract who is better than him in free agency even if they have the cash?

[SoCalJazzFan]

UTA out: Conley, 2 of the lesser 23 1st of their 3, and a 2nd
UTA in: Ayton S&T

BKN out: KD
BKN in: Conley, Bridges, Johnson, 2 UTA 1sts, 4 PHX 1st, 3 PHX swap, and Utah 2nd

PHX out: Ayton S&T, Bridges, Johnson, 4 unprotected 1sts, and 3 unprotected swaps

Why for Utah: Ainge tells PHX and BKN the only way he is sending out 2 1sts is if BKN takes Conley. Utah gets a starting C

Why for Brooklyn: Get max value for KD

Why for Phoenix: They go to the finals again

Do you not want Cameron Johnson, or do you think he Nets insist on having him?

[AingesBurner]

UTA out: Conley, 2 of the lesser 23 1st of their 3, and a 2nd
UTA in: Ayton S&T

BKN out: KD
BKN in: Conley, Bridges, Johnson, 2 UTA 1sts, 4 PHX 1st, 3 PHX swap, and Utah 2nd

PHX out: Ayton S&T, Bridges, Johnson, 4 unprotected 1sts, and 3 unprotected swaps

Why for Utah: Ainge tells PHX and BKN the only way he is sending out 2 1sts is if BKN takes Conley. Utah gets a starting C

Why for Brooklyn: Get max value for KD

Why for Phoenix: They go to the finals again

Do you not want Cameron Johnson, or do you think he Nets insist on having him?

I’d imagine they insist on having him? What are your thoughts on trade? Trade our least valuable picks and dump Conley for Ayton.

[SoCalJazzFan]

UTA out: Conley, 2 of the lesser 23 1st of their 3, and a 2nd
UTA in: Ayton S&T

BKN out: KD
BKN in: Conley, Bridges, Johnson, 2 UTA 1sts, 4 PHX 1st, 3 PHX swap, and Utah 2nd

PHX out: Ayton S&T, Bridges, Johnson, 4 unprotected 1sts, and 3 unprotected swaps

Why for Utah: Ainge tells PHX and BKN the only way he is sending out 2 1sts is if BKN takes Conley. Utah gets a starting C

Why for Brooklyn: Get max value for KD

Why for Phoenix: They go to the finals again

Do you not want Cameron Johnson, or do you think he Nets insist on having him?

I’d imagine they insist on having him? What are your thoughts on trade? Trade our least valuable picks and dump Conley for Ayton.

I proposed a similar trade in a post above yours. I want Cam Johnson, if possible. The more I think about and look into it the more inclined I am to retool around Mitchell.

[AingesBurner]

Do you not want Cameron Johnson, or do you think he Nets insist on having him?

I’d imagine they insist on having him? What are your thoughts on trade? Trade our least valuable picks and dump Conley for Ayton.

I proposed a similar trade in a post above yours. I want Cam Johnson, if possible. The more I think about and look into it the more inclined I am to retool around Mitchell.

I agree, I think we should at least see what he does next year before we trade him. I would also see if we can get John Collins after this, I’d offer Bogey, Kessler, and a 1st.

Donovan-Beasley-Vandy-Collins-Ayton with Pat Bev, Clarkson, and Juancho off the bench.

[SoCalJazzFan]

I’d imagine they insist on having him? What are your thoughts on trade? Trade our least valuable picks and dump Conley for Ayton.

I proposed a similar trade in a post above yours. I want Cam Johnson, if possible. The more I think about and look into it the more inclined I am to retool around Mitchell.

I agree, I think we should at least see what he does next year before we trade him. I would also see if we can get John Collins after this, I’d offer Bogey, Kessler, and a 1st.

Donovan-Beasley-Vandy-Collins-Ayton with Pat Bev, Clarkson, and Juancho off the bench.

I’d much rather have a lineup of Bev (short but dog defender with good energy), Mitchell, Bogey, Johnson and Ayton.
Beasley can be a scoring punch off the bench, or with Mitchell if scoring needed, and Vandy a rebounding and defensive PF presence with the second unit or as needed with first for those attributes.
I wouldn’t acquire Collins if I had Ayton as Collins and Capela never meshed. I’d also rather see how Kessler pans out and save the pick for a wing opportunity.

[AingesBurner]

I proposed a similar trade in a post above yours. I want Cam Johnson, if possible. The more I think about and look into it the more inclined I am to retool around Mitchell.

I agree, I think we should at least see what he does next year before we trade him. I would also see if we can get John Collins after this, I’d offer Bogey, Kessler, and a 1st.

Donovan-Beasley-Vandy-Collins-Ayton with Pat Bev, Clarkson, and Juancho off the bench.

I’d much rather have a lineup of Bev (short but dog defender with good energy), Mitchell, Bogey, Johnson and Ayton.
Beasley can be a scoring punch off the bench, or with Mitchell if scoring needed, and Vandy a rebounding and defensive PF presence with the second unit or as needed with first for those attributes.
I wouldn’t acquire Collins if I had Ayton as Collins and Capela never meshed. I’d also rather see how Kessler pans out and save the pick for a wing opportunity.

I like Collins for his defensive versatility and we need to get younger, Collins is locked up and likely cheap. Collins and Ayton can provide offensive versatility as well. Also think about my lineup size 6-1/6-8/6-9/6-10/6-11, that’s huge.

[SoCalJazzFan]

UTA out: Conley, 2 of the lesser 23 1st of their 3, and a 2nd
UTA in: Ayton S&T

BKN out: KD
BKN in: Conley, Bridges, Johnson, 2 UTA 1sts, 4 PHX 1st, 3 PHX swap, and Utah 2nd

PHX out: Ayton S&T, Bridges, Johnson, 4 unprotected 1sts, and 3 unprotected swaps

Why for Utah: Ainge tells PHX and BKN the only way he is sending out 2 1sts is if BKN takes Conley. Utah gets a starting C

Why for Brooklyn: Get max value for KD

Why for Phoenix: They go to the finals again

I have reservations about Collins with Ayton, but since Ayton has some range and Collins would be a great help rim protector and small ball center and his stats are really impressive and he is young, maybe the following:

Nets- Conley, Bridges, 4 Suns picks, 2 Jazz picks (hopefully the lessers or protected), Suns pick swaps
Suns- KD
Jazz- Collins, Ayton, Cameron Johnson
Hawks- NAW and Bogey and Jazz 1st (the lesser of TWolves/Jazz pick or protected,and if not trade Gay instead of NAW)

A Mitchell, (Beverly or Beasley or Clarkson), Cameron Johnson, John Collins, Ayton starting lineup could be pretty good. Go get Caleb Martin to shore up wing depth/defense and I would feel a lot better about it.

This would burn 3 of the 4 Gobert first round picks, but the Jazz would be hard pressed to draft such good players over the next 5 years anyways.

[D Rog]

Honestly, I am not a big Ayton fan. I don't know what type of offense the new coach is going to run but if the Jazz really are building around Donovan, he needs a center that is at least a threat from 3. Ayton has taken 56 3 point shots in 4 years. A center that can shoot a 3 point shot opens up the lane for Donovan and Jordan Clarkson to drive to the hoop or drive and pass out to a 3 point shooter.

I totally agree with comments made by a few people above. Moving Conley and Gay has to be a priority. I liked a couple of the ideas in this article but I would also look hard at Myles Turner (not sure what it would take). The article above suggests Conley could get Valanciunas (granted he is 30 years old but IMO you only have a couple years (if that) before DM moves on).

https://nbaanalysis.net/2022/07/05/nba-trade-rumors-mike-conley-utah-jazz-dallas-mavericks-new-orleans-pelicans-la-clippers/

If I could get Turner and/or Valanciunas as #1 and #2 center (Turner playing a few more minutes than Valanciunas). Their salaries combined is less than Gobert's salary. They each shoot about 35% from 3. I am not sure what it would take to get either away from their current teams but those are 2 experienced centers I would seriously consider over Ayton, largely because of their 3 point threat.

I would also look to ATL for John Collins (probably for Bogey and maybe a pick). The Jazz would be younger and IMO tougher with the addition of Collins, Turner and Valanciunas manning the front court.

I don't know that I want to play facilitator for Phoenix to get KD. I don't see much from Phoenix I want for the Jazz. Just my opinion.

[AingesBurner]

UTA out: Conley, 2 of the lesser 23 1st of their 3, and a 2nd
UTA in: Ayton S&T

BKN out: KD
BKN in: Conley, Bridges, Johnson, 2 UTA 1sts, 4 PHX 1st, 3 PHX swap, and Utah 2nd

PHX out: Ayton S&T, Bridges, Johnson, 4 unprotected 1sts, and 3 unprotected swaps

Why for Utah: Ainge tells PHX and BKN the only way he is sending out 2 1sts is if BKN takes Conley. Utah gets a starting C

Why for Brooklyn: Get max value for KD

Why for Phoenix: They go to the finals again

I have reservations about Collins with Ayton, but since Ayton has some range and Collins would be a great help rim protector and small ball center and his stats are really impressive and he is young, maybe the following:

Nets- Conley, Bridges, 4 Suns picks, 2 Jazz picks (hopefully the lessers or protected), Suns pick swaps
Suns- KD
Jazz- Collins, Ayton, Cameron Johnson
Hawks- NAW and Bogey and Jazz 1st (the lesser of TWolves/Jazz pick or protected,and if not trade Gay instead of NAW)

A Mitchell, (Beverly or Beasley or Clarkson), Cameron Johnson, John Collins, Ayton starting lineup could be pretty good. Go get Caleb Martin to shore up wing depth/defense and I would feel a lot better about it.

This would burn 3 of the 4 Gobert first round picks, but the Jazz would be hard pressed to draft such good players over the next 5 years anyways.

I dig it.

[D Rog]

I posted earlier that I am not a big Ayton fan. That being said ...

1) If Ayton is that great, why didn't the Suns sign him to a big $$$ extension in the past year? I don't believe that last fall or even 2 months ago they thought they might be able to get KD.

2) What about Ayton is appealing for the Jazz especially at approximately $30M per year?

3) Is Ayton that much better than Gobert offensively? Not if you look at his shooting %) During the past 4 years Ayton has averaged about 2 points more per game than Gobert (however his FG% is approximately 5% worse than Gobert) while Gobert averaged 3+ more rebounds and 1+ more blocks per game.

4) Ayton has been in the league 4 years. In those 4 years Rudy Gobert played 50 more games in the regular season than Ayton. Why?

I understand the personality conflict between Donovan and Rudy and something had to change. At $30M per year Ayton will be cheaper than Rudy and he is younger but does that really do anything to move the Jazz closer to a WCF much less an NBA title? Are other teams fighting to pay Ayton $30M per year?

The league is moving away from the slow, large, physically imposing centers and looking for other attributes in centers (3 point shooting, athleticism and ability switch on defense). Maybe the Jazz take him but I am trying to get him for less than $30M and I am not giving up a large part of the draft picks acquired from moving Rudy to accommodate KD, Brooklyn & Phoenix. I understand you may move 1 pick to get Ayton and move Conley but I don't think I move more than that.

[AingesBurner]

I posted earlier that I am not a big Ayton fan. That being said ...

1) If Ayton is that great, why didn't the Suns sign him to a big $$$ extension in the past year? I don't believe that last fall or even 2 months ago they thought they might be able to get KD.

2) What about Ayton is appealing for the Jazz especially at approximately $30M per year?

3) Is Ayton that much better than Gobert offensively? Not if you look at his shooting %) During the past 4 years Ayton has averaged about 2 points more per game than Gobert (however his FG% is approximately 5% worse than Gobert) while Gobert averaged 3+ more rebounds and 1+ more blocks per game.

4) Ayton has been in the league 4 years. In those 4 years Rudy Gobert played 50 more games in the regular season than Ayton. Why?

I understand the personality conflict between Donovan and Rudy and something had to change. At $30M per year Ayton will be cheaper than Rudy and he is younger but does that really do anything to move the Jazz closer to a WCF much less an NBA title? Are other teams fighting to pay Ayton $30M per year?

The league is moving away from the slow, large, physically imposing centers and looking for other attributes in centers (3 point shooting, athleticism and ability switch on defense). Maybe the Jazz take him but I am trying to get him for less than $30M and I am not giving up a large part of the draft picks acquired from moving Rudy to accommodate KD, Brooklyn & Phoenix. I understand you may move 1 pick to get Ayton and move Conley but I don't think I move more than that.

Personality issues is why they are moving on from Ayton and Ayton is probably not getting 30 mill per year, what team has the cap to offer it? Also, sounds like Ayton wants to go to a team to compete, Utah is that team but he will likely take a discount. Ayton’s contract I bet is 25-27 mill per year.

[SoCalJazzFan]

I posted earlier that I am not a big Ayton fan. That being said ...

1) If Ayton is that great, why didn't the Suns sign him to a big $$$ extension in the past year? I don't believe that last fall or even 2 months ago they thought they might be able to get KD.

2) What about Ayton is appealing for the Jazz especially at approximately $30M per year?

3) Is Ayton that much better than Gobert offensively? Not if you look at his shooting %) During the past 4 years Ayton has averaged about 2 points more per game than Gobert (however his FG% is approximately 5% worse than Gobert) while Gobert averaged 3+ more rebounds and 1+ more blocks per game.

4) Ayton has been in the league 4 years. In those 4 years Rudy Gobert played 50 more games in the regular season than Ayton. Why?

I understand the personality conflict between Donovan and Rudy and something had to change. At $30M per year Ayton will be cheaper than Rudy and he is younger but does that really do anything to move the Jazz closer to a WCF much less an NBA title? Are other teams fighting to pay Ayton $30M per year?

The league is moving away from the slow, large, physically imposing centers and looking for other attributes in centers (3 point shooting, athleticism and ability switch on defense). Maybe the Jazz take him but I am trying to get him for less than $30M and I am not giving up a large part of the draft picks acquired from moving Rudy to accommodate KD, Brooklyn & Phoenix. I understand you may move 1 pick to get Ayton and move Conley but I don't think I move more than that.

Ayton might or might not be the answer, but he is a really good consolation prize to losing Gobert. If the Jazz don't get him, they are going to suck most likely even with Donovan Mitchell, so unless they have a viable short term plan that comes to fruition by next summer, they should trade DM asap, otherwise, after a bad season and no viable plan he is understandably want to get out.

Ayton is not a replacement to Gobert on defense. Nobody is, particlarly in the paint. However, IMO, Ayton is a much, much better offensive player than Gobert. Ayton had the most points per pick and roll last year, second only to Gobert. Unlike Gobert, Ayton actuallly has a post game and can play with his back to the basket. One of the problems the Jazz had with teams playing small ball on them was as much that Gobert couldn't post up even gaurds and make their opponent pay for going small as it was trying to defend the small ball. Ayton also has some range. He has respectable percentages outside of 10 feet. While he hasn't taken a ton of 3s, only 19 last season, he hits them enough (37% last year) to make a team worry about defending him in space. If Gobert was ever more than 5 feet away from the basket and not a roll threat, he wasn't an offensive threat whatsoever, creating 5 on 4 situations, so instead he was always picking, rolling and hanging around the rim, clogging lanes. He was certainly a lob/dump threat, and Ayton might not be as much, but still will be if someone is cutting and lobs or dumps it to him.

Why won't the Suns pay Ayton? Perhaps they are cheap and making a mistake. Perhaps they think he lost them game 7 of the WC semi-finals, while ignoring that he saved their butts when CP3 and Booker were out. Perhaps they realize he isn't worth a true max of upwards of $40M/yr. Others will probably think that he is worth $25-$30M/yr and his production probably backs that up.

Will he and Mitchell be enought to get to the WCF? Probably not, but it is a good foundation to pick up another player or two that could get them there. Who else are we going to get that will be better in free agency? Will we get lucky in the draft? Even if we do, when will that player be ready to help the team with a playoff push? Does this coincide with Mitchell's timeline?

[SoCalJazzFan]

There are rumors that the Pacers are going to extend an offer to Ayton; they have a ton of cap space. Could that open the door to the Jazz getting Myles Turner? What would it cost us? Would we want him? Could it turn into a Pacers/Jazz/Suns/Nets trade?

[AingesBurner]

There are rumors that the Pacers are going to extend an offer to Ayton; they have a ton of cap space. Could that open the door to the Jazz getting Myles Turner? What would it cost us? Would we want him? Could it turn into a Pacers/Jazz/Suns/Nets trade?

I wouldn’t mind Turner, send Phoenix/Nets a 1st.

[bkohler]

I’m opposed to Ayton, not because I don’t think he’s good but because I believe the NBA is at a place where the center position is a lot like a running back in the NFL; giving big money to any center makes it almost impossible to build a winning team. Even the best centers (Jokic, Embiid, Gobert) have struggled in the post season.

I think a smarter route is attempting to find a center in the 10-15M range (Poeltl, Williams, Lopez) and use your ammo to go after wings both in the draft, in free agency and on the trade market.

I realize this might mean this years team is a little awkward and probably not great but I think if we can make the rebuild/retool only last a year we’ve got a decent chance at peaking with Dons peak.

Maybe some of the newer bigs coming in (Chet, Wemby) will be more effective to build around long term but it just feels like Center is not where you should invest your resources right now.

[AingesBurner]

UTA out: Mitchell
UTA in: Suggs, Anthony, Hampton, Ross, 2027 unprotected Orlando 1st and 2029 unprotected Orlando 1st

Orlando out: Suggs, Anthony, Hampton, Ross, 2027 1st and 2029 1st
Orlando in: Mitchell

Orlando build around Mitchell, Banchero, Wagner, and Isaac.

Utah hits the reset button with plenty of young players and still signs Ayton. Anthony/Butler-Suggs-Beasley-Vanderbilt-Ayton, we suck this season but get a top 3 pick and we are set for the future.

[jrj202]

I'd much rather trade for Poeltl with one of our TPEs