The Preseason Thread

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Our own @TheJoshAVinson spoke with Benji Burke, @TreyBurke father #Wizards #WizardsTalk pic.twitter.com/9tqpRIIYbQ
— FOX Sports Radio1340 (@1340AMFOXSports) October 4, 2016

Benji Burke on his son : "He knew and so did the Jazz management and coaching staff that he was a better player than Dante Exum and Raul Neto"...

I'm so glad we don't have to deal with Trey's parents anymore...

[erudite23]

That was a depressing showing, I have to admit. I missed the first quarter and half of the 2nd, so I mainly got to watch the debacle of the 3rd quarter.

I think the +/- numbers from this game are very telling. Diaw and Joe combined to go -30+ in about 30 minutes of play. The starters were close to even, whereas the bench got killed.

Dante looked lost again, although physically he looked pretty good.

Not the start I was looking for, but it is just the 1st preseason game. Hopefully it's not a sign of what's to come.

[erudite23]

Read on Twitter

Our own @TheJoshAVinson spoke with Benji Burke, @TreyBurke father #Wizards #WizardsTalk pic.twitter.com/9tqpRIIYbQ
— FOX Sports Radio1340 (@1340AMFOXSports) October 4, 2016

Benji Burke on his son : "He knew and so did the Jazz management and coaching staff that he was a better player than Dante Exum and Raul Neto"...

I'm so glad we don't have to deal with Trey's parents anymore...

Speechless.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

It's preseason game #1. I'm really not worried at all.

Diaw and Joe Johnson were horrible but we know that will be rectified come regular season.

George Hill started out fine but had his struggles. He's learning to play with new teammates in a new system. Not worried about him at all.

Dante looked hesitant but that was to be expected. People need to chill out with him and be patient. He'll get there in time.

I think the biggest things to pull from this game is the way the team started and the work they need to put in on the perimeter D. They came out and dominated to start the game with the starting group. I think that's the most accurate representation of what we can expect this season. That's the group that's played together the most, especially when compared to Portland who has 11 players returning from last season. Blazers came into the game with way more chemistry than we did as a whole, but when our starting group matched the chemistry, it really showed the potential of our guys. Portland had all sorts of trouble guarding our offense and our defense put the clamps down on them hard with that starting group on the floor.

However, that being said, our perimeter defense got scorched time and time again throughout the night once the starters left the floor. It appeared that the team was playing a "swarm" defense where everyone collapses on the ball when it reaches the paint to try and force a turn-over. Problem with that style is what we saw last night. Drive and kick to wide open 3 point shooters who can light you up. Given, Portland made some tough shots from 3 that only compounded the problem but that's honestly the biggest weakness that I saw from this team. Well, that and turnovers, but that's also something I'm guessing will greatly improve with more playing time in the pre-season. If we can't find a way to stop ball penetration on the perimeter and we keep collapsing 5 guys into the paint, it's going to be a long season for our defense. Too many teams are shooting too many 3's with too many good shooters to get away with that style of D. We need to really work on staying home on the shooters, especially when we have someone like Gobert in the middle to cover any penetration from the O. There's really no reason for everyone to collapse down into the paint.

I also felt like there was a lot of confusion on the defensive end in defending screen plays. There were more than a couple times that on a screen play that our defenders got confused and either doubled when they shouldn't have or let the ball handler go free. This was true on off ball screens too. This was something that Portland exposed time and time again. They almost literally ran the same sets every time down the floor, alternating sides and ball handlers because we just had no answer for it.

To me, that's the biggest takeaway from game 1. Our defense needs to be the point of emphasis, not our offense. I think we're to the point that we can't just assume we'll be an elite defensive team. We really need these guys to go out there and prove it each night consistently.

Can the offense improve? Sure. Taking more 3's and getting guys more iso's on the low block so we can work inside out and take advantage of our size would be nice but we have so many weapons that I'm not super concerned about this.

Overall, it's just game 1 of the preseason. It was on the road. We played a lot of guys. I don't think there's a whole lot of stock you can put into anything from this game, for good or for bad.

[KqWIN]

I have no problem with Trey's parents. He's there son, and if anyone should support him unconditionally it's his parents. With that said, this is exactly why parents should not represent their kids. They are too emotionally invested to make logical decisions.

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I have no problem with Trey's parents. He's there son, and if anyone should support him unconditionally it's his parents. With that said, this is exactly why parents should not represent their kids. They are too emotionally invested to make logical decisions.

Benji is not just his father.

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about the game yesterday - I will keep my judgement on the new additions and the rotations for a while. I think it's only natural that it takes time for them to get integrated within the system and for them to find their place within the flow. Both Joe Johnson and Boris Diaw looked lost yesterday.

I loved the start and I loved Hayward and Favors. I think they will have monster seasons and I expect at least one of them to make ASG.

[Stern Fixer]

UT Jazz Fan wrote: "I think the biggest things to pull from this game is the way the team started and the work they need to put in on the perimeter D. They came out and dominated to start the game with the starting group. I think that's the most accurate representation of what we can expect this season. That's the group that's played together the most, especially when compared to Portland who has 11 players returning from last season. Blazers came into the game with way more chemistry than we did as a whole, but when our starting group matched the chemistry, it really showed the potential of our guys. Portland had all sorts of trouble guarding our offense and our defense put the clamps down on them hard with that starting group on the floor."

Good point. I think some folks forget that preseason is more about evaluation, setting lineups and trimming rosters than it is about winning ballgames. Just watching the game again on NBA TV as I write this and I feel like the additions of Hill, Johnson and Diaw will definitely pay off for us in time (though they struggled a bit last night). Of the three I have to admit that I still have a bit of doubt regarding Diaw - hope I'm wrong.

My other concerns also involve the center position. Does Gobert really have hands of stone or was he just having a bad night? Seemed like he bobbled the ball every time it was thrown into the post - at least four times. I know you guys like him but to me Withey is soft on D and both he and Gobert have a tendency to get stripped too easily. And Diaw in the post provides no rim protection whatsoever (though Gobert and Withey didn't do much in that capacity last night either). Pretty sure that Sims is not the answer as he didn't even crack the rotation last night. Like to bring in a tough-minded center. That's our Achilles IMO, that and a pg that can penetrate like a Lillard or McCollum. That's my view.

[Inigo Montoya]

I'll tell you what, if this wasn't a preseason game I'd be pissed. Very reminiscent of how we played last year which is not a good thing.

Pretty much what I'm seeing as well. Same system with somewhat different (and better) personnel. And I hope we won't be using Exum like this (or like his first season)--we're just giving him an excuse to take a back seat on offense and hide behind the 3pt line living off others instead of creating for others.

I'm not sure what people expect. Quinn said himself that he tried desperately to get this team to run a motion offense, but it never worked due to the incapability with the personnel on the roster so he gave up and started running whatever that crap they did last year. So the FO gets a few new guys that are basically upgrades or duplicates of what you already have, nothing that would even allow Quinn to change his system to what he wants it to be. For goodness sakes, the whole time the new starting pg (hill) was in Indiana, they were trying to bring in a playmaker because he couldn't do it and their offense was constantly out of wack ... so why would it be any difference in Utah? Makes no sense.

as for Exum, he doesn't have the ability to consistently create for others, that was apparent from before the draft. Can't turn someone into something they are not. He should be a SG and they should focus on his shooting and ability to attack the basket, not this PG crap.

I agree with most of this. It's not that I expected a different system as much as I was hoping for it. But I didn't expect Snyder to change it. The most I can hope for is that with the new personnel we'll run it better and with the addition of better passers like Diaw there will be more flow and movement and better overall execution.

As for Exum, I disagree about that. If he can attack the basket, he'll be able to create for others. But it's really bad for his development imho, to just let him stand around behind the 3pt line and not much more.

[KqWIN]

I have no problem with Trey's parents. He's there son, and if anyone should support him unconditionally it's his parents. With that said, this is exactly why parents should not represent their kids. They are too emotionally invested to make logical decisions.

Benji is not just his father.

That's what I was saying. I don't have a problem with him supporting his son, but there is a problem with being his agent.

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Pretty much what I'm seeing as well. Same system with somewhat different (and better) personnel. And I hope we won't be using Exum like this (or like his first season)--we're just giving him an excuse to take a back seat on offense and hide behind the 3pt line living off others instead of creating for others.

I'm not sure what people expect. Quinn said himself that he tried desperately to get this team to run a motion offense, but it never worked due to the incapability with the personnel on the roster so he gave up and started running whatever that crap they did last year. So the FO gets a few new guys that are basically upgrades or duplicates of what you already have, nothing that would even allow Quinn to change his system to what he wants it to be. For goodness sakes, the whole time the new starting pg (hill) was in Indiana, they were trying to bring in a playmaker because he couldn't do it and their offense was constantly out of wack ... so why would it be any difference in Utah? Makes no sense.

as for Exum, he doesn't have the ability to consistently create for others, that was apparent from before the draft. Can't turn someone into something they are not. He should be a SG and they should focus on his shooting and ability to attack the basket, not this PG crap.

I agree with most of this. It's not that I expected a different system as much as I was hoping for it. But I didn't expect Snyder to change it. The most I can hope for is that with the new personnel we'll run it better and with the addition of better passers like Diaw there will be more flow and movement and better overall execution.

As for Exum, I disagree about that. If he can attack the basket, he'll be able to create for others. But it's really bad for his development imho, to just let him stand around behind the 3pt line and not much more.

I couldn't agree more with that part. I'm done with the excuses. I don't want to hear about him trying stuff in practice and not showing anything on game day. I''m done with it. Show me something! Try SOMETHING!!! ANYTHING!? I don't even mind him failing! Try and fail... but FFS just TRY! I'm sick of him blowing past his man and being scared to explode to the rim. Just try it FFS! This is not a lot I'm asking, is it? JUST TRY? Otherwise he will just bust. I see no path to him becoming a starter-level player unless he gets over his fears and at least make opponents guard him in the paint.

[Inigo Montoya]

I couldn't agree more with that part. I'm done with the excuses. I don't want to hear about him trying stuff in practice and not showing anything on game day. I''m done with it. Show me something! Try SOMETHING!!! ANYTHING!? I don't even mind him failing! Try and fail... but FFS just TRY! I'm sick of him blowing past his man and being scared to explode to the rim. Just try it FFS! This is not a lot I'm asking, is it? JUST TRY? Otherwise he will just bust. I see no path to him becoming a starter-level player unless he gets over his fears and at least make opponents guard him in the paint.

I give him a bit more slack because he's back from an injury, so young and with almost no experience and after being out a whole year. It'll probably take him a year or two more to get comfortable imho. But I hate how he is being used in this offense to begin with--he's not likely to take initiative when the offense is structured for him to take a back seat to begin with, and watch others create.

[KqWIN]

I've been saying this for a while now, but I think Exum ultimately turns out to be a utility player. His best asset is going to be his on ball defense, and I think the most we can hope for on offense is for him to be able to be a secondary ball handler. He's different than Igoudala, but I think that is what his best case scenario is. An elite defender who adds a lot of versatlity on offense. He'll fill in the gaps, but he'll never be the one pulling the cart.

Stars possess a mentality that Exum doesn't. They look to force their will on their opponent and that is the exact opposite of Exum. It's not coaching or role, either, it's just who he is. No one is telling him that he has to stand in the corner, but that's what he's comfortable doing. Last night there were multiple occasions where he had the step on his defender but completely froze up once he had a line to the basket. That's 100% on him.

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Like I said a bunch of times before Dante is more likely to be a Michael Cooper type of player than a pure pg and I am fine with that. Unfortunately that is also why I wanted to draft Wade Baldwin because it means that we still need to find the answer at pg. People use the excuse that he was young which is why he was so passive but the really good guards in league are aggressive from the get go and plenty of those guys are coming into the league the same age as Dante.

[Dry Fly]

Dante gets a pass for the next couple months IMO. Let him build a little confidence.

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Dante gets a pass for the next couple months IMO. Let him build a little confidence.

I give him a complete pass results-wise. I don't mind him failing. Like ... at all! I just want him to try doing stuff! I don't want him to stay in the corner and shoot jumpers. I don't want him to avoid the paint like the plague. This shouldn't be too much to ask from any player, let alone a top 5 pick.

[Daddy 801]

Dante could drive past his guy and and just stop and shoot it. He doesn't have to dunk or get a layup.

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Dante could drive past his guy and and just stop and shoot it. He doesn't have to dunk or get a layup.

yep, the pullup game is another thing he needs to work on. If he can have the required balance to do it, I don't mind it. He just can't not look to score at all coming off the pnr. It completely eliminates the purpose of the PnR if he's not a threat to shoot or go to the rim.

[Inigo Montoya]

Last night there were multiple occasions where he had the step on his defender but completely froze up once he had a line to the basket. That's 100% on him.

yep, the pullup game is another thing he needs to work on. If he can have the required balance to do it, I don't mind it. He just can't not look to score at all coming off the pnr. It completely eliminates the purpose of the PnR if he's not a threat to shoot or go to the rim.

I agree with both of you. Dante is too timid and that's on him. I just think some circumstances are at play in his case that makes me willing to give him some more time, which doesn't excuse him from the criticism you rightly raise against him. I looked at him as a four-year project from the get go, so I'm not surprised with what we're seeing, though I was hoping for more daring on his part. With the injury, he became a five-year project, and imho is probably 2-3 seasons away from coming into his own on offense. In that regard, with or without his own timidity, this offense is not good for his development. Yes, I want to see him try, even if he fails. But this offense makes it too easy for him to just look at Hayward do his thing while waiting in the corner, and that's not only because of Exum's personality, but because that's how Snyder wants this offense to work.

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I'm about to watch Embiid's debut. Can't wait. We joke around with the Jazz hype, but the Embiid hype is real strong with Philly fans and trusters of the process.

I hope they don't put me to sleep.