Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers

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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#61 » by JonFromVA » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:27 pm

Swuul wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Do you believe Lorenzo Brown (a late second round pick who couldn't manage to stick in the NBA) was giving 120% for his country too when he helped Spain win it all?


I wasn't aware he won the MVP too.


Some felt he should have been over his teammate, but he was named to the All-Tournament Team which consisted 100% of current and former NBA players. Alas, Lauri did get not make the cut.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#62 » by Jiipee84 » Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:19 am

JonFromVA wrote:
Swuul wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Eurobasket MVP Willy Hermangomez earned $2.2M last season. Why wouldn't he give 120% if he thought there was a chance he could be paid like an NBA superstar?


Duh, because he was playing for his country. Money has nothing to do with fighting your guts out for your country. Prolly difficult for americans to understand, I guess.


Lots of NBA role players play at 120% ... they have to, to stay in the league; but it doesn't make them a superstar.

Do you believe Lorenzo Brown (a late second round pick who couldn't manage to stick in the NBA) was giving 120% for his country too when he helped Spain win it all?


The point what i try made in here is that how well Lauri's eurobasket game performances and scoring adjusts to Utah Jazz?
In Eurobasket Finland's goal was win so many games as possible in Jazz the goal is tanking to 2023 NBA draft.

How well Utah Jazz can use Lauri ?
Is Lauri getting all those shots and scoring chances what he needs to be useful ?
Can Collin Sexton be that playmaker what Lauri needs ?
What's Lauri's role in Utah Jazz ?
Does Utah Jazz coaching staff see Lauri 1st scoring option like Finland did in Eurobasket ?

All these are crucial and important questions for Lauri's 2022-2023 NBA season.
And so long when there's no clear answers we cannot say for sure how Lauri's games goes and how well he starts his season in Utah.
That's why we can't expect much yet.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#63 » by JonFromVA » Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:55 pm

Jiipee84 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Swuul wrote:
Duh, because he was playing for his country. Money has nothing to do with fighting your guts out for your country. Prolly difficult for americans to understand, I guess.


Lots of NBA role players play at 120% ... they have to, to stay in the league; but it doesn't make them a superstar.

Do you believe Lorenzo Brown (a late second round pick who couldn't manage to stick in the NBA) was giving 120% for his country too when he helped Spain win it all?


The point what i try made in here is that how well Lauri's eurobasket game performances and scoring adjusts to Utah Jazz?
In Eurobasket Finland's goal was win so many games as possible in Jazz the goal is tanking to 2023 NBA draft.

How well Utah Jazz can use Lauri ?
Is Lauri getting all those shots and scoring chances what he needs to be useful ?
Can Collin Sexton be that playmaker what Lauri needs ?
What's Lauri's role in Utah Jazz ?
Does Utah Jazz coaching staff see Lauri 1st scoring option like Finland did in Eurobasket ?

All these are crucial and important questions for Lauri's 2022-2023 NBA season.
And so long when there's no clear answers we cannot say for sure how Lauri's games goes and how well he starts his season in Utah.
That's why we can't expect much yet.


Good questions, but I don't think Lauri's performance against a lower-level of competition is going to help us predict how it plays out, and I'm not going to try to guess the Jazz's approach to the season when they may have conflicting goals.

Collin and Lauri will have opportunities to expand their games and show they're capable of doing more, but it's still on them to show they're ready to take that step.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#64 » by mg » Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:06 pm

I was listening to Locke this morning and the stats say that Lauri gets an F rating when it comes to passing/assist ratio type stats. We saw him do some creating this summer. He played alongside Mobley last season who is a good playmaker from the post. These are things that Lauri needs to be working on this coming season. In fairness, with the exception of Conley and Olynyk, the entire team needs to work on passing the ball and creating opportunities for teammates. All these guys including Lauri, Sexton, Beasley, Bolmaro, Butler, THT will get a chance to improve their playmaking skills this coming season.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#65 » by Crunch 99 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:02 pm

Swuul wrote:
Crunch 99 wrote:the average NBA defense is a bit tougher than the average Eurobasket defense.

It is actually the other way round. In FIBA matches there is no 3 sec defensive rule, the field is narrower than in NBA, traveling and other offensive fouls are actually called. The average winning point total for the winning team in FIBA matches the past five years has been 75.6 points, in the NBA 101.2 points.


Looks like we have a bunch of NBA stars from Europe who largely agree with you. There is a thread on the General Board discussing the topic now.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2228014

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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#66 » by Hugi Mancura » Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:52 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:
Swuul wrote:
Crunch 99 wrote:the average NBA defense is a bit tougher than the average Eurobasket defense.

It is actually the other way round. In FIBA matches there is no 3 sec defensive rule, the field is narrower than in NBA, traveling and other offensive fouls are actually called. The average winning point total for the winning team in FIBA matches the past five years has been 75.6 points, in the NBA 101.2 points.


Looks like we have a bunch of NBA stars from Europe who largely agree with you. There is a thread on the General Board discussing the topic now.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2228014

On media day Coach Hardy said "I'd like for us to play a style where everybody is involved; I don't think that it would be productive for us to have one player dominate the ball with this group". All coaches say they would like to have everyone involved, but Markkanen probably isn't going to get as many shot attempts on the Jazz as he got in Eurobasket.


He was insanely efficient. 28 ppg with 17 shots and 7 free throws. Much better efficiency than Steph last year in regular season.

Markkanen was just an example of player which are very common in NBA. I would say there are 200 players in NBA who could easily score 20 ppg if the their team would want so, but there is only one ball, so in every team there is 1-2 players who get this treatment from their team while rest of the team does what is left after that, which usually means 40-50 shots divided between rest of 10 guys. You can't score 20 points with 4 shots even if you would be best player in universe. In Eurobasket Markkanen was the player who got this star treatment from his team.

So will Utah use Markkanen as one of those two players which will be allowed to take those 17-20 shots per game? Probably not. If he would he probably would average 20 points per game. And I don't think he would be only player in current Utah roster who could do that.

We will see what is the team offensive tactic this year. Because there is so many new players I don't think it matters much what coaches say.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#67 » by chefo » Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:53 pm

The Cavs had the right idea with regards to Lauri-- their problem was Lauri started the year in a huge shooting funk. Once he got comfortable, he was exactly what they wanted out of him--a 3rd/4th option that could give you 17/6 on extremely high efficiency (60%+ TS). Ever since Lauri's 3rd year, that's what every coach he's had has asked of him and the last 2 years, he's become pretty decent at it.

What you saw in EuroBasket is what the Bulls' board calls FebruLauri--there was a period of about a month his soph year where the Bulls decided to push pedal to the metal in terms of maximizing their two young 'stars'--Zach and Lauri. Lauri's touches spiked to almost 80 per game (that's Vuc territory) for that period as he was used not as a spacer, but the screener who could either roll or pop, and he was allowed to handle the ball, both on the break and a bit on the outside. Lauri responded by scoring 25 per game over that stretch. As a 20-something sophomore. I think a lot of the Bulls' fans heartbreak over Lauri came from seeing him go on dunkathons mixed with high volume 3-point shooting, only to be functionally demoted the very next year to a spacing decoy that saw his touches cut by half.

By the following year, he was asked to put on 20 pounds of muscle (dude was ripped as he was), so that he can play C more often and was inexplicably parked in the weak-side corner while such up-and-coming superstars like Gerian Grant, Sato, Kris Dunn, Coby White, Archi and Denzel Valentine took turns pounding the air out of the ball. Furthermore, his bulking up rather obviously limited him both vertically and horizontally and he struggled adjusting. I mean, from a coaching perspective, I'm sure it made some sense to the dim-witts running the Bulls back then-- WCJ and Gafford can't shoot worth a lick and are therefore useful only as screeners. Lauri can shoot as the second "big"--'off the corner you go'.

I think Lauri's finally back to being lighter and more sprightly, like his first 2 years with the Bulls. Sprightly Lauri is good Lauri. That kid who was dunking on everybody went MIA during his late Bulls career.

What happens next is a function of if the Jazz decide to 'feature' him or make him a cog in the machine. If the latter, he's already pretty decent at it. If the former, the only time the Bulls tried it, he went FebruLauri on the league. It hasn't been tried since--but that also requires discipline by the coaches and guards, because Lauri doesn't seem to be aggressive enough to demand touches. You give him touches--good things usually happen, but you almost have to force feed him. He doesn't have it in him to get in people's faces when they miss him on a cut or a pin down low when he's got a 6'6 guy on him.

Lauri, in the correct mindset, can be the biggest steal of that trade--but it requires work and discipline by both parties to get him there.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#68 » by Swuul » Mon Oct 3, 2022 5:08 am

Lauri highlights from the first preseason Match.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#69 » by Crunch 99 » Mon Oct 3, 2022 11:32 am

Swuul wrote:Lauri highlights from the first preseason Match.


Great start! I hope Markkanen establishes himself as our leading scorer this season. He is fun to watch.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#70 » by Jiipee84 » Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:02 am

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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#71 » by dautjazz » Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:11 am

Dude was amazing tonight. He's so big, he's pretty good defensively, on top of being filthy offensively. Not gonna lie, Lauri, Sexton, Agbaji, 3 FRPs, and 2 swaps for Mitchell is beginning to look like highway robbery. I suppose it can be a win win, but for a rebuild, what a freaking haul for us.
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by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#72 » by Jiipee84 » Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:24 am

dautjazz wrote:Dude was amazing tonight. He's so big, he's pretty good defensively, on top of being filthy offensively. Not gonna lie, Lauri, Sexton, Agbaji, 3 FRPs, and 2 swaps for Mitchell is beginning to look like highway robbery. I suppose it can be a win win, but for a rebuild, what a freaking haul for us.


Yeah that trade seems robbery now.
But still there is chance at least Lauri won't see spring 2023 in Utah if he keeps playing well.

Vs Denver Lauri had 17pts 4 rebs 4 ass but tonight vs Timberwolves Lauri had 24pts 13 rebs 5ass.
If Lauri keeps that stastic pace lets say 2-4 months some playoff team will ask Lauri's availbility in trade deadline but is it likely?.

Even i cannot deny that Wembanyama, Kessler, Markkanen and Sexton would be good core for future Utah Jazz.
But lets see about 20-30 games first before making any statements of that who's keeper and who's not.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#73 » by dautjazz » Sat Oct 22, 2022 6:42 am

As much as I would love Wemby, the 3 worst teams each have a 14% chance at getting him, but pretty highly unlikely. For as good as he looks, I'm extremely concerned about his height. He's going to be over 7'5" by the looks of it, barefoot, and that just never has faired well for others that big, much less such an explosive big. I hope he has a great career, and obviously I would love to win the lottery and get him, but I don't just want to give away a 25yr old 7fter who's capable of 20+ppg with outside range, and can play defense as well. These guys don't grow on trees. I was on board on the tank train, and these trades were absolutely made to rebuild, but man I love how these guys have been playing, with a chip on their shoulder, and they seem to enjoy playing together. 39 assists is the most we've had since 2010, and we accomplished that tonight.
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by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#74 » by Jiipee84 » Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:08 pm

dautjazz wrote:As much as I would love Wemby, the 3 worst teams each have a 14% chance at getting him, but pretty highly unlikely. For as good as he looks, I'm extremely concerned about his height. He's going to be over 7'5" by the looks of it, barefoot, and that just never has faired well for others that big, much less such an explosive big. I hope he has a great career, and obviously I would love to win the lottery and get him, but I don't just want to give away a 25yr old 7fter who's capable of 20+ppg with outside range, and can play defense as well. These guys don't grow on trees. I was on board on the tank train, and these trades were absolutely made to rebuild, but man I love how these guys have been playing, with a chip on their shoulder, and they seem to enjoy playing together. 39 assists is the most we've had since 2010, and we accomplished that tonight.


You made absolutely good points and i agree most of them.
I can't say nothing on Wembanyama because i haven't seen him play.
But when i look Zion Williamson i see 6'7 tall PF who looks more WWE superstar than NBA player.

Zion has gone through with quite remarkable questions of his physicality.
And when you look Zion's body you see that those questions are relevant.

Even Kristaps Porzingis has fought with injuries and if i haven't mistaken he has torn his ACL twice that's a nasty injury.
So your concerns of Wemby's size are real and that's something what Ainge and his staff should think seriously.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#75 » by Inigo Montoya » Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:26 pm

Injury concerns will always be there with VW but he's probably still worth the risk. And even if you don't get the #1 pick, Henderson is a good consolation prize, so we still need a high pick. Fact of the matter is that we don't have upper echelon talent and without it we're not going to get better results than what we have been getting with the previous incarnation of the Jazz. Yes, tanking sucks, but we need to bite the bullet or we're just going to stay in that 2nd round ceiling area for the next decade and this whole rebuild will have been for nothing and we might as well kept both Mitchell and Gobert if that's good enough for us.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#76 » by Axolotl » Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:52 pm

I've been following Markkanen pretty closely - he was friends with my son, they were classmsmates at school and used to play football (soccer) in our yard and basketball at theirs. A quiet, well-mannered kid.

I think he is getting his old NBA-self back. With the Bulls, something went wrong, he bulked too much, lost quickness, agility and footspeed. Then the Bulls pretty much made him stand in the corner - and I don't mean to put the blame to the Bulls org, he was lumbering out there.

I remember putting out the thought that Markkanen is not a PF/C, but a versatile F, who could play both forward spots. I was told no, too slow, lacks lateral quickness, can't create his own shots, handle not good enough. Then he went to the Cavs, and did just fine as a small forward.

This is my hot take after two games: you may be getting the best version of Markkanen so far. LM has never looked as complete as a player as he has now - except for one month with the Bulls, still remembered as "Februlauri". So bear in mind he has been streaky, both as a shooter and as a whole.

And finally "Lauri" is pronounced just like "Lowry" :D
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#77 » by FJS » Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:55 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:Injury concerns will always be there with VW but he's probably still worth the risk. And even if you don't get the #1 pick, Henderson is a good consolation prize, so we still need a high pick. Fact of the matter is that we don't have upper echelon talent and without it we're not going to get better results than what we have been getting with the previous incarnation of the Jazz. Yes, tanking sucks, but we need to bite the bullet or we're just going to stay in that 2nd round ceiling area for the next decade and this whole rebuild will have been for nothing and we might as well kept both Mitchell and Gobert if that's good enough for us.
How many 1st pick need warriors to make his dinasty? With how many bucks won? Raptors? Mavs? Lakers led by bryant?

Only james did that job.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#78 » by dautjazz » Sat Oct 22, 2022 4:30 pm

FJS wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:Injury concerns will always be there with VW but he's probably still worth the risk. And even if you don't get the #1 pick, Henderson is a good consolation prize, so we still need a high pick. Fact of the matter is that we don't have upper echelon talent and without it we're not going to get better results than what we have been getting with the previous incarnation of the Jazz. Yes, tanking sucks, but we need to bite the bullet or we're just going to stay in that 2nd round ceiling area for the next decade and this whole rebuild will have been for nothing and we might as well kept both Mitchell and Gobert if that's good enough for us.
How many 1st pick need warriors to make his dinasty? With how many bucks won? Raptors? Mavs? Lakers led by bryant?

Only james did that job.
Yeah don't get me wrong, plenty of #1 picks have led teams to titles, Magic, Olajuwon, Duncan, etc, but there are plenty of stars that slip past 1, like MJ, Malone, KG, Kobe, Giannis, Jokic, Doncic, Curry, etc. Also sometimes teams with low chances win the lottery, like the Bulls for Rose, so whatever, let these guys play their hearts out, we still got 8 FRPs, and who knows we might still miss the playoffs and could end up with a great lottery pick.
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by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#79 » by dautjazz » Sat Oct 22, 2022 4:31 pm

FJS wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:Injury concerns will always be there with VW but he's probably still worth the risk. And even if you don't get the #1 pick, Henderson is a good consolation prize, so we still need a high pick. Fact of the matter is that we don't have upper echelon talent and without it we're not going to get better results than what we have been getting with the previous incarnation of the Jazz. Yes, tanking sucks, but we need to bite the bullet or we're just going to stay in that 2nd round ceiling area for the next decade and this whole rebuild will have been for nothing and we might as well kept both Mitchell and Gobert if that's good enough for us.
How many 1st pick need warriors to make his dinasty? With how many bucks won? Raptors? Mavs? Lakers led by bryant?

Only james did that job.
James actually stepped away from Cleveland first too, had he not been a local, who knows if he returns.
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How old are you, just curious.

by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
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Re: Utaz Jazz acquire Lauri Markkanen from Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#80 » by FJS » Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:00 pm

Yeah, I meant since James entered the league.

Sure people like Olajuwon, Shaq, KAJ, Duncan or James get a lot of rings, but per every one of those there's a Curry, Leonard, Nowitzki, Jordan, Bryant, Wade who can do it too.
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