Trade Ideas for This Season

bkohler · Post #701 » by **bkohler** » Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:07 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Knicks fan here coming in peace. (I'm tired of talking to them on the Knicks forum. )

If the Knicks try and force RJ on you, is that a deal breaker for you? From my perspective, RJ is a 4th option on a Knicks' team with Brunson, Mitchell, and Randle on it. But on the Jazz, and only 22 years old, he can be a nice piece as a young leader who can help set the culture in Utah for all the incoming young players you have. In any event, he's still much less expensive than Donovan.

I don't think it's a deal breaker but I think it would make sense to rope a third team in that might value him more and make up the difference in draft picks that we'd want vs what you'd be willing to give. I think there's a proposal on the trades board right now that would send him to ORL for some picks, route those picks to UTA and send us bad salary and seems like we could have a deal / get the six + draft picks we're looking for apparently.

dr0welf · Post #702 » by **dr0welf** » Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:30 pm

SoCalJazzFan wrote:
dr0welf wrote:
stitches wrote:
The Knicks are not getting off that easy. More picks... IMO you go for the kill and get as many picks as you possibly can and as further away in time as possible. You have the Rudy Gobert benchmark. You don't accept anything less... 4-5 picks, multiple swaps... This is Ainge we are talking about.

I think if they include Barrett in the trade then less picks would be needed as you would have a pretty good piece to build around.

Out of curiosity, what makes you think RJ Barrett is worth two picks? Sure, he has good size and was the 3rd pick in his draft, but he has been really bad, other than an inefficient scorer, his first three years. Is there potential for upside, sure, but at a cost of picks and probably $25M/yr?

The extension of $25M/yr is more a stretch to me. I don't believe his value is there yet but it could easily be.

dr0welf · Post #703 » by **dr0welf** » Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:53 pm

Jazz trade: Pat Beverly

Dallas trades: Ntilikina, Powell

Jazz move Pat to a contender, get 2 more players that are both on 1 year deals. 1 being a small center to help fill in that position, 1 being a PG that never really has lived up to his potential. Kind of a flyer

Dallas gets a backup PG that has playoff experience, tenacity, and with him and Doncic both talking crap all game will really get into opponents heads.

dr0welf · Post #704 » by **dr0welf** » Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:03 pm

Jazz trade: Bogie, 2025 1st round pick from Min

Sacramento trades: Murray, Mitchell, Metu, Queta

Sacramento really opens up the lane for Fox with Bogie adding to Huerter and Sabonis as 3pt threats. Actually I believe this could be scary good with how well Fox can drive and dish.

Utah gets some young talent to start on rebuilding. Murray is looking good in Summer League still has some growing to go once competition increases. Metu and Queta add some length and height to our team. Mitchell is an energizer bunny and the hope is he continues to improve.

bkohler · Post #705 » by **bkohler** » Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:31 pm

dr0welf wrote:Jazz trade: Bogie, 2025 1st round pick from Min

Sacramento trades: Murray, Mitchell, Metu, Queta

Sacramento really opens up the lane for Fox with Bogie adding to Huerter and Sabonis as 3pt threats. Actually I believe this could be scary good with how well Fox can drive and dish.

Utah gets some young talent to start on rebuilding. Murray is looking good in Summer League still has some growing to go once competition increases. Metu and Queta add some length and height to our team. Mitchell is an energizer bunny and the hope is he continues to improve.

Pretty sure you’re missing about a Donovan Mitchell’s with of value in that trade. Murray is probably untouchable and definitely not going to be traded for Bogey alone.

dr0welf · Post #706 » by **dr0welf** » Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:47 pm

bkohler wrote:
dr0welf wrote:Jazz trade: Bogie, 2025 1st round pick from Min

Sacramento trades: Murray, Mitchell, Metu, Queta

Sacramento really opens up the lane for Fox with Bogie adding to Huerter and Sabonis as 3pt threats. Actually I believe this could be scary good with how well Fox can drive and dish.

Utah gets some young talent to start on rebuilding. Murray is looking good in Summer League still has some growing to go once competition increases. Metu and Queta add some length and height to our team. Mitchell is an energizer bunny and the hope is he continues to improve.

Pretty sure you’re missing about a Donovan Mitchell’s with of value in that trade. Murray is probably untouchable and definitely not going to be traded for Bogey alone.

Keegan Murray hasn't even played a game in the NBA yet, only summer league and you think his value is the same as Donovan Mitchell? That seems like a huge stretch to me. He looks promising but hasn't done anything yet. That is why I gave them a future 1st for him. I might be a little short only because of the hype around him and so you throw in a second 1st if you feel he is that good.

bkohler · Post #707 » by **bkohler** » Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:04 pm

I get he hasn’t played a really game but you’re not getting any of the top ten picks in this last draft for a future first - that’s just not how rookies are valued.

dr0welf · Post #708 » by **dr0welf** » Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:47 pm

Yeah I understand except I think Sacramento is wanting to get serious about win now. Rookies now usually don't help a team win now but more like in a few years. If Sacramento wants to win now putting Bogie in to help spread the floor would look like the Jazz 2 years ago with tons of shooting and Fox instead of Mitchell driving the lane.

Only way teams trade top 10 picks in same years draft before they play a game is if they think they can crate a team that gives them a good shot to win. I personally think Bogie puts Sacramento in a position to have a chance to make some noise. Their bench is suspect but why trade for Sabonis and waste a couple years of his why you wait for another star to develop?

I can see your point and honestly I can see them being hesitant but this could be an opportunity for them to go for it. With Bogie on his last year (which I didn't think of originally) they probably wouldn't look at it for that cost. Or maybe it would cost us more to make it happen.

I don't know Sacramento super well but Fox, Huerter, Bogie, Sabonis, Holmes would be a pretty good small ball lineup with Barnes as your 6th man.

skywalker33 · Post #709 » by **skywalker33** » Sat Jul 16, 2022 11:58 pm

zero24gravity wrote:
stitches wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
Not angry at all, just laughing at what Ainge thinks DM is worth

Ainge's job is not to get what he thinks DM is worth. His job is to get the best out of what 29 other teams think he's worth... + what he has leverage to ask for.

You need to understand the value of those "1st round picks", though. Since most those picks are from teams other than the Knicks, many are highly protected (some could end up being 2nd round picks due to those protections), others are picks likely in the 20's. It's not like they are a bunch of lottery picks. Trading DM for 6 picks, if they end up being something like; 1 lottery, three later 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders, isn't very good. They need to get Knick unprotected picks & pick swaps, to make the deal worth while, IMO.

The non-Knick picks really aren't as sexy as people want to think they are:

Mavericks first round pick (protected top 10 in 2023-25, else 2025 second round pick)
-- so this one is likely going to be a mid-20's 1st rounder

Nuggets first round pick (protected top 14 in 2023-25, else 2025 second round pick, 2026 second round pick)
-- so this one should be a 1st round pick in the later half of the order, or if the Nugs don't perform well, will be a 2nd rounder

Pistons first round pick (protected top 16 in 2021-22, top 18 in 2023-24, top 13 in 2025, top 11 in 2026, top 9 in 2027, else 2027 second round pick)
-- so this one very-well could end up being a 2nd round pick

Wizards first round pick (protected top 14 in 2023, top 12 in 2024, top 10 in 2025, top 8 in 2026, else 2026 second round pick, 2027 second round pick)
-- so this one looks similar to Pistons, where unless the team gets out of the lottery in the next couple years, it'll be a 2nd round pick (top 8 protected in 2026 could be the best case scenario, if they are in the 9-13 range)

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm

Agreed, but then Ainge is asking for this haul on top of of the six #1's GREEDY to say the least.

jrj202 wrote:Apparently we asked the Knicks for Toppin, Quickley, McBride, Grime.

bkohler · Post #710 » by **bkohler** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:26 am

dr0welf wrote:Yeah I understand except I think Sacramento is wanting to get serious about win now. Rookies now usually don't help a team win now but more like in a few years. If Sacramento wants to win now putting Bogie in to help spread the floor would look like the Jazz 2 years ago with tons of shooting and Fox instead of Mitchell driving the lane.

Only way teams trade top 10 picks in same years draft before they play a game is if they think they can crate a team that gives them a good shot to win. I personally think Bogie puts Sacramento in a position to have a chance to make some noise. Their bench is suspect but why trade for Sabonis and waste a couple years of his why you wait for another star to develop?

I can see your point and honestly I can see them being hesitant but this could be an opportunity for them to go for it. With Bogie on his last year (which I didn't think of originally) they probably wouldn't look at it for that cost. Or maybe it would cost us more to make it happen.

I don't know Sacramento super well but Fox, Huerter, Bogie, Sabonis, Holmes would be a pretty good small ball lineup with Barnes as your 6th man.

I’d love Murray but Bogey just doesn’t have this type of value, the same argument you’ve used applies to them trading for someone even better than Bogey. Murray would be an excellent center piece for a Mitchell trade.

jrj202 · Post #711 » by **jrj202** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:19 am

The package I'd want for Donovan...

Jazz receive: Obi Toppin, Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes, Evan Fouriner 2023 1st (NYK), 2023 1st (DAL), 2025 1st (NYK), 2025 1st (MIL), 2027 1st (NYK), 2029 1st (NYK)

Ih8duke · Post #712 » by **Ih8duke** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:37 pm

jrj202 wrote:The package I'd want for Donovan...

Jazz receive: Obi Toppin, Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes, Evan Fouriner 2023 1st (NYK), 2023 1st (DAL), 2025 1st (NYK), 2025 1st (MIL), 2027 1st (NYK), 2029 1st (NYK)

As A Knick fan this is exactly what I figured. It’s a lot, but that’s how these trades work. If you replaced Grimes with Cam or the Dallas pick with one of the other protected picks I would be happy. But truthfully if this were the take it or leave it, I’d probably take it. At least we keep Rose and Quickly and you guys take Fournier.

bkohler · Post #713 » by **bkohler** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:51 pm

Ih8duke wrote:
jrj202 wrote:The package I'd want for Donovan...

Jazz receive: Obi Toppin, Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes, Evan Fouriner 2023 1st (NYK), 2023 1st (DAL), 2025 1st (NYK), 2025 1st (MIL), 2027 1st (NYK), 2029 1st (NYK)

As A Knick fan this is exactly what I figured. It’s a lot, but that’s how these trades work. If you replaced Grimes with Cam or the Dallas pick with one of the other protected picks I would be happy. But truthfully if this were the take it or leave it, I’d probably take it. At least we keep Rose and Quickly and you guys take Fournier.

I don’t know if Utah really wants any of the youth beyond them being assets, I could see it literally end up being Fournier/Rose + 8 picks with light protections on some and the some swaps.

Ih8duke · Post #714 » by **Ih8duke** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:05 pm

bkohler wrote:
Ih8duke wrote:
jrj202 wrote:The package I'd want for Donovan...

Jazz receive: Obi Toppin, Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes, Evan Fouriner 2023 1st (NYK), 2023 1st (DAL), 2025 1st (NYK), 2025 1st (MIL), 2027 1st (NYK), 2029 1st (NYK)

As A Knick fan this is exactly what I figured. It’s a lot, but that’s how these trades work. If you replaced Grimes with Cam or the Dallas pick with one of the other protected picks I would be happy. But truthfully if this were the take it or leave it, I’d probably take it. At least we keep Rose and Quickly and you guys take Fournier.

I don’t know if Utah really wants any of the youth beyond them being assets, I could see it literally end up being Fournier/Rose + 8 picks with light protections on some and the some swaps.

Knicks only have 8 Trade-able firsts. 4 would be our unprotecteds in 23,25,27,29. The others are too 10, top 5 and 2 lottery protected. I think the Knicks would be happy to give up all 8 if it meant keeping the kids. I can’t see Utah not wanting at least Grimes (he is a very good 2 way prospect) and Obi.

bkohler · Post #715 » by **bkohler** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:13 pm

Grimes is definitely the best of the bunch; my point is I’m not sure they’re enamored with any of them. Do Fouriner/Rose 8 picks and three swaps and call it a deal.

CAE15 · Post #716 » by **CAE15** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:14 pm

dr0welf wrote:Jazz trade: Pat Beverly

Dallas trades: Ntilikina, Powell

Jazz move Pat to a contender, get 2 more players that are both on 1 year deals. 1 being a small center to help fill in that position, 1 being a PG that never really has lived up to his potential. Kind of a flyer

Dallas gets a backup PG that has playoff experience, tenacity, and with him and Doncic both talking crap all game will really get into opponents heads.

Nah if we're trading pat to dallas we need at least Josh Green and/or a pick coming back. There's no reason for Frank these days. Still young but really just a defensive specialist

CAE15 · Post #717 » by **CAE15** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:18 pm

dr0welf wrote:Jazz trade: Bogie, 2025 1st round pick from Min

Sacramento trades: Murray, Mitchell, Metu, Queta

Sacramento really opens up the lane for Fox with Bogie adding to Huerter and Sabonis as 3pt threats. Actually I believe this could be scary good with how well Fox can drive and dish.

Utah gets some young talent to start on rebuilding. Murray is looking good in Summer League still has some growing to go once competition increases. Metu and Queta add some length and height to our team. Mitchell is an energizer bunny and the hope is he continues to improve.

Bogey is worth salary filler and a protected first. He and a 1st could maybe net Mitchell? I guess that's possible but that even seems likely, there's no way Murray is in this discussion

dr0welf · Post #718 » by **dr0welf** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:23 pm

CAE15 wrote:
dr0welf wrote:Jazz trade: Pat Beverly

Dallas trades: Ntilikina, Powell

Jazz move Pat to a contender, get 2 more players that are both on 1 year deals. 1 being a small center to help fill in that position, 1 being a PG that never really has lived up to his potential. Kind of a flyer

Dallas gets a backup PG that has playoff experience, tenacity, and with him and Doncic both talking crap all game will really get into opponents heads.
Nah if we're trading pat to dallas we need at least Josh Green and/or a pick coming back. There's no reason for Frank these days. Still young but really just a defensive specialist

Frank is only turns 24 years old next week. So he is young and still developing his game. But 7' 1" wingspan on the guard line would be nice to try.

bearadonisdna · Post #719 » by **bearadonisdna** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:37 pm

jrj202 wrote:The package I'd want for Donovan...

Jazz receive: Obi Toppin, Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes, Evan Fouriner 2023 1st (NYK), 2023 1st (DAL), 2025 1st (NYK), 2025 1st (MIL), 2027 1st (NYK), 2029 1st (NYK)

if you received 4 unprotected 1st from knicks,
that is same as gobert haul and would only be privy to the worst players and salary fillers the knicks could afford.
Not 1 playable asset would be included in the deal other than salary filler.

AingesBurner · Post #720 » by **AingesBurner** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:54 pm

bearadonisdna wrote:
jrj202 wrote:The package I'd want for Donovan...

Jazz receive: Obi Toppin, Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes, Evan Fouriner 2023 1st (NYK), 2023 1st (DAL), 2025 1st (NYK), 2025 1st (MIL), 2027 1st (NYK), 2029 1st (NYK)

if you received 4 unprotected 1st from knicks,
that is same as gobert haul and would only be privy to the worst players and salary fillers the knicks could afford.
Not 1 playable asset would be included in the deal other than salary filler.

Oh how cute, an unintelligent Knicks fan.