Rudy Gobert traded to the Timberwolves!

[Rauxcee]

What is everyone expecting now? Is it ship or bust? Be happy about a division title? Happy to just have a chance? There’s about a 3-4 year window. What will make it a bad trade

It will be a bad trade of they don't commit to a full rebuild by trading Mitchell soonish.

My expectations are a full rebuild. Anything else is a waste of time and assets before we inevitably rebuild.

I'm probably in the minority though. I don't think you can rebuild around Mitchell and be anymore successful than the Jazz have been the last 3-4 years. Obviously there is still some unknowns, but If Mitchell is our best player, I don't see much of a change in our ceiling then where its been.

(Also did you mean to post that question here or the Wolves board?)

[mcbsst]

Actually Wolves board. But I do think y’all got the best end of the trade. Too many unprotected picks. An injury to one of their top 3 and the Jazz has a lottery pick

[eLo]

What is everyone expecting now? Is it ship or bust? Be happy about a division title? Happy to just have a chance? There’s about a 3-4 year window. What will make it a bad trade

It will be a bad trade of they don't commit to a full rebuild by trading Mitchell soonish.

My expectations are a full rebuild. Anything else is a waste of time and assets before we inevitably rebuild.

I'm probably in the minority though. I don't think you can rebuild around Mitchell and be anymore successful than the Jazz have been the last 3-4 years. Obviously there is still some unknowns, but If Mitchell is our best player, I don't see much of a change in our ceiling then where its been.

(Also did you mean to post that question here or the Wolves board?)

Gob should never leave Utah, there are players that simply should not be traded, doesnt matter in what proces team is. But it did happened, ainge is soul less a.hole, so now leaving Mitchell would be totally out of sens, as this team should be build from very begining

[Hoops Addict]

, ainge is soul less a.hole

No. He is a thief.......instead of another season witha first round exit.....It is smarter to do what Boston and OKC did......get a big haul for your stars....tank and get a top5 player.

DM will eventually leqave.....if we get anothr 4-4 picvks and tank hard....our team will be awesome.

[zero24gravity]

Or... Rudy is actually good? Which allowed Ainge to do his thing?

There is no argument that Gobert is good. Nobody says he's a scrub. It doesn't mean his gargantuan contract is justified.

When a team gives you 5 1sts for that contract, it kind of means it's justified...

I'm in agreement with stiches 100%. Gobert is so far ahead of any other player in his area's of strength that it is the equivalent to a "scorer" putting up 35ppg. You can't name 5 other players who impact the game more than Rudy, and that includes offensively, where his screen assists, elite lob finishing, FG%, improved FT%, ORB's, etc, make him one the best offensive tools in the league as well. (See offensive winshares.) There are more ways of being a great player than chasing around guards on D and shooting. Acting like he's an offensive stiff that just blocks shots is what I'd expect from casual fans in other markets. (Not meant as an attack on those here who disagree, I'm just passionate about this.)

The trade was FAIR value, not a fleecing. His contract was very fair, and I'd say less than his actual value. I can't be too mad because of the team's need to change, but damn ... instant drop to 8-10th seed in the West with the subtraction of the 3rd best player in Jazz history.

[RookieJazz]

I think this Gobbert trade is the best Jazz F.O. could do. Although, I think it came with a killer delay. If Jazz could finish this trade one week ago, they would be on the market and use the picks to get Malcolm Brogdon and Jerami Grant and rebuild around Don. Then add John Collins and Ayton and we would have built a strong team:

Brogdon
Mitchell
Grant
Collins
Ayton.

Kind of reminds me of the 2004 Pistons. Jazz would use all the picks from the Gobbert trade and rebuild in a fly.

[zero24gravity]

I think this Gobbert trade is the best Jazz F.O. could do. Although, I think it came with a killer delay. If Jazz could finish this trade one week ago, they would be on the market and use the picks to get Malcolm Brogdon and Jerami Grant and rebuild around Don. Then add John Collins and Ayton and we would have built a strong team:

Brogdon
Mitchell
Grant
Collins
Ayton.

Kind of reminds me of the 2004 Pistons. Jazz would use all the picks from the Gobbert trade and rebuild in a fly.

Technically the trade isn't even official yet. It's possible the Jazz are holding off finalizing in hopes of adding another team(s) or even jumping into something like a Durant trade, where they get more assets in order to take on a contract to make the Nets trade possible.

[vryadli]

I think this Gobbert trade is the best Jazz F.O. could do. Although, I think it came with a killer delay. If Jazz could finish this trade one week ago, they would be on the market and use the picks to get Malcolm Brogdon and Jerami Grant and rebuild around Don. Then add John Collins and Ayton and we would have built a strong team:

Brogdon
Mitchell
Grant
Collins
Ayton.

Kind of reminds me of the 2004 Pistons. Jazz would use all the picks from the Gobbert trade and rebuild in a fly.

\
Quite a weak against current GS or Lakers. nd BOTH Brogdon and Grant is a pipe dream.

[BudTugly]

hey guys. as I’ve been somewhat active I figured I should give you a heads up and one more take.

I’m good, bought a motorcycle last year and made it my new hobby. KLR 650. I’m all over farm roads and up into the St. Joe forest roads as well. Having a much better time.

On the trade if you can permit, the Jazz were destroyed by the Clips in much the same way the Jazz destroyed those same Clippers just several years back. I personally was a little bit happy for the tale of redemption by our familiar foe Paul George. Once I got over my piss I really liked his arc.

Anyways the trade. The Jazz were **** and knew it before they went into the playoffs 2021. The coach was popular among fans (and me) but couldn’t figure out what to do besides making faces. This team was completely Fd. They knew they had one season to win w Rudy and it was over. So they tried. Could a better coach win? I dunno. Could a team make better decisions heading into a season? Yea absolutely. Anyways so now they have to trade away both their stars bc they both want to win. I do think Utah was smart to move Gobert first but everybody knows Mitchell is going too.

I believe Minny won the trade bc Utah wanted a player and failed to get him. We will see what Mitchell pulls but I wonder if he’s maybe a bit of a flash player

cheers to all of you, once again I’m out

[Inigo Montoya]

There is no argument that Gobert is good. Nobody says he's a scrub. It doesn't mean his gargantuan contract is justified.

When a team gives you 5 1sts for that contract, it kind of means it's justified...

I'm in agreement with stiches 100%. Gobert is so far ahead of any other player in his area's of strength that it is the equivalent to a "scorer" putting up 35ppg. You can't name 5 other players who impact the game more than Rudy, and that includes offensively, where his screen assists, elite lob finishing, FG%, improved FT%, ORB's, etc, make him one the best offensive tools in the league as well. (See offensive winshares.) There are more ways of being a great player than chasing around guards on D and shooting. Acting like he's an offensive stiff that just blocks shots is what I'd expect from casual fans in other markets. (Not meant as an attack on those here who disagree, I'm just passionate about this.)

The trade was FAIR value, not a fleecing. His contract was very fair, and I'd say less than his actual value. I can't be too mad because of the team's need to change, but damn ... instant drop to 8-10th seed in the West with the subtraction of the 3rd best player in Jazz history.

I think it is a bit premature to say we'll drop to the 8-10th seed in the west because our roster isn't finalized yet. We all know Gobert was the one who held the defense together in the past few seasons and that most of the players around him weren't good at defense, so if you take Gobert out keep a similar roster then yes, we'd probably suck. But it looks like a lot of changes are coming and that we aren't close to being done shaping the roster. If the roster we have now is the one we'll roll out once the season starts then yes, we'll probably be the 10th seed. But if you replace Gobert with Ayton (who's mentioned as Jazz-bound in trade rumors), and then improve the perimeter defense (maybe trade Conley and Bojan), then I think this is a playoff team too. The Jazz have some assets now to make good roster additions. With all due respect to Gobert (because it's not his fault), we had a team that got bounced in the first or second round every season. We can manage to build a first-round exit team without him.

[stitches]

When a team gives you 5 1sts for that contract, it kind of means it's justified...

I'm in agreement with stiches 100%. Gobert is so far ahead of any other player in his area's of strength that it is the equivalent to a "scorer" putting up 35ppg. You can't name 5 other players who impact the game more than Rudy, and that includes offensively, where his screen assists, elite lob finishing, FG%, improved FT%, ORB's, etc, make him one the best offensive tools in the league as well. (See offensive winshares.) There are more ways of being a great player than chasing around guards on D and shooting. Acting like he's an offensive stiff that just blocks shots is what I'd expect from casual fans in other markets. (Not meant as an attack on those here who disagree, I'm just passionate about this.)

The trade was FAIR value, not a fleecing. His contract was very fair, and I'd say less than his actual value. I can't be too mad because of the team's need to change, but damn ... instant drop to 8-10th seed in the West with the subtraction of the 3rd best player in Jazz history.

I think it is a bit premature to say we'll drop to the 8-10th seed in the west because our roster isn't finalized yet. We all know Gobert was the one who held the defense together in the past few seasons and that most of the players around him weren't good at defense, so if you take Gobert out keep a similar roster then yes, we'd probably suck. But it looks like a lot of changes are coming and that we aren't close to being done shaping the roster. If the roster we have now is the one we'll roll out once the season starts then yes, we'll probably be the 10th seed. But if you replace Gobert with Ayton (who's mentioned as Jazz-bound in trade rumors), and then improve the perimeter defense (maybe trade Conley and Bojan), then I think this is a playoff team too. The Jazz have some assets now to make good roster additions. With all due respect to Gobert (because it's not his fault), we had a team that got bounced in the first or second round every season. We can manage to build a first-round exit team without him.

OK, lets assume we build a 1st round exit team next year. What do you think happens next? Do you really think Mitchell is long for this team with 1st round exit teams? Hell... with ANY team in Utah?

[Rauxcee]

If we are replacing Gobert with Ayton/Collins we are a worse team then last year. They are way lesser players.

Jazz have an abysmal record without Gobert. That was of course under Snyder and maybe a new coach would be different.

I can't see how a team with Mitchell as it's best player is better than a play in spot- and then Mitchell asks to leave.

If the Jazz use any of those FRP we got for Gobert to aquire Ayton or Collins Ainge is an idiot.

And I thought Rudy earned his contract.

[Inigo Montoya]

I'm in agreement with stiches 100%. Gobert is so far ahead of any other player in his area's of strength that it is the equivalent to a "scorer" putting up 35ppg. You can't name 5 other players who impact the game more than Rudy, and that includes offensively, where his screen assists, elite lob finishing, FG%, improved FT%, ORB's, etc, make him one the best offensive tools in the league as well. (See offensive winshares.) There are more ways of being a great player than chasing around guards on D and shooting. Acting like he's an offensive stiff that just blocks shots is what I'd expect from casual fans in other markets. (Not meant as an attack on those here who disagree, I'm just passionate about this.)

The trade was FAIR value, not a fleecing. His contract was very fair, and I'd say less than his actual value. I can't be too mad because of the team's need to change, but damn ... instant drop to 8-10th seed in the West with the subtraction of the 3rd best player in Jazz history.

I think it is a bit premature to say we'll drop to the 8-10th seed in the west because our roster isn't finalized yet. We all know Gobert was the one who held the defense together in the past few seasons and that most of the players around him weren't good at defense, so if you take Gobert out keep a similar roster then yes, we'd probably suck. But it looks like a lot of changes are coming and that we aren't close to being done shaping the roster. If the roster we have now is the one we'll roll out once the season starts then yes, we'll probably be the 10th seed. But if you replace Gobert with Ayton (who's mentioned as Jazz-bound in trade rumors), and then improve the perimeter defense (maybe trade Conley and Bojan), then I think this is a playoff team too. The Jazz have some assets now to make good roster additions. With all due respect to Gobert (because it's not his fault), we had a team that got bounced in the first or second round every season. We can manage to build a first-round exit team without him.

OK, lets assume we build a 1st round exit team next year. What do you think happens next? Do you really think Mitchell is long for this team with 1st round exit teams? Hell... with ANY team in Utah?

I wasn't making statement or taking any stand on rebuild\retool so I'm not really sure how this question is relevant. I was only saying that it looks to me like the Jazz are trying to build around Mitchell and that just because we traded Gobert doesn't mean we can't achieve the same (middling) results without him.

[Inigo Montoya]

If we are replacing Gobert with Ayton/Collins we are a worse team then last year. They are way lesser players.

Jazz have an abysmal record without Gobert. That was of course under Snyder and maybe a new coach would be different.

I can't see how a team with Mitchell as it's best player is better than a play in spot- and then Mitchell asks to leave.

If the Jazz use any of those FRP we got for Gobert to aquire Ayton or Collins Ainge is an idiot.

And I thought Rudy earned his contract.

The Jazz had a bad record without Gobert because we had a roster full of bad defenders that was built around him. If we change the roster, don't you think we can get different results? And btw, Ayton is a decent defender. Obviously not on Gobert's level but he's pretty good on that end.

[zero24gravity]

Trade was just made official. I wondered if they were holding off to potentially jump into a trade (such as KD), where they get another asset to help facilitate for another team, but looks like they have moved on now, opening the door to sign FA's or make other trades.

[Rauxcee]

Trade was just made official. I wondered if they were holding off to potentially jump into a trade (such as KD), where they get another asset to help facilitate for another team, but looks like they have moved on now, opening the door to sign FA's or make other trades.

The trade couldn't be made official until today. There was no holding off, they just had to wait for league to open up to trades.

[Rauxcee]

If we are replacing Gobert with Ayton/Collins we are a worse team then last year. They are way lesser players.

Jazz have an abysmal record without Gobert. That was of course under Snyder and maybe a new coach would be different.

I can't see how a team with Mitchell as it's best player is better than a play in spot- and then Mitchell asks to leave.

If the Jazz use any of those FRP we got for Gobert to aquire Ayton or Collins Ainge is an idiot.

And I thought Rudy earned his contract.

The Jazz had a bad record without Gobert because we had a roster full of bad defenders that was built around him. If we change the roster, don't you think we can get different results? And btw, Ayton is a decent defender. Obviously not on Gobert's level but he's pretty good on that end.

And before we had bad defenders we had great, or at least solid defenders and we still were bad without Rudy.

Ayton is a solid player, but if the goal is to win a championship Ayton isn't that guy. If the goal is to be a first round exit as your ceiling, then Ayton is the man for the job.

[SoCalJazzFan]

If we are replacing Gobert with Ayton/Collins we are a worse team then last year. They are way lesser players.

Jazz have an abysmal record without Gobert. That was of course under Snyder and maybe a new coach would be different.

I can't see how a team with Mitchell as it's best player is better than a play in spot- and then Mitchell asks to leave.

If the Jazz use any of those FRP we got for Gobert to aquire Ayton or Collins Ainge is an idiot.

And I thought Rudy earned his contract.

The Jazz had a bad record without Gobert because we had a roster full of bad defenders that was built around him. If we change the roster, don't you think we can get different results? And btw, Ayton is a decent defender. Obviously not on Gobert's level but he's pretty good on that end.

And before we had bad defenders we had great, or at least solid defenders and we still were bad without Rudy.

Ayton is a solid player, but if the goal is to win a championship Ayton isn't that guy. If the goal is to be a first round exit as your ceiling, then Ayton is the man for the job.

I'm not sure about that. Ayton was one of core of the Suns and their latest run. They have had Booker (can DM have similar impact as him?), CP3 (great leader but aging player), and Ayton. The others are just average to above average players.

The Heat went to the Finals two years ago and the ECF this past season. They essentially have Jimmy Butler and Bam and some dudes.

While there is no chance that we can replace Gobert's defensive impact, perhaps having another player that has more shooting range will open things up and keep defenses more honest and getting a bit bigger and having players that are more athletic and able to play on both ends of the court, even if they are just average to slightly above average starters, will make enough of a difference.

To be honest, I am not totally sure, but the more I look into full on tanking, the more worried I am that we could become a Magic, Kings, TWolves, etc. Relying solely on the draft instead of using contracts and picks to acquire known players is a gamble.

[Rauxcee]

The Jazz had a bad record without Gobert because we had a roster full of bad defenders that was built around him. If we change the roster, don't you think we can get different results? And btw, Ayton is a decent defender. Obviously not on Gobert's level but he's pretty good on that end.

And before we had bad defenders we had great, or at least solid defenders and we still were bad without Rudy.

Ayton is a solid player, but if the goal is to win a championship Ayton isn't that guy. If the goal is to be a first round exit as your ceiling, then Ayton is the man for the job.

I'm not sure about that. Ayton was one of core of the Suns and their latest run. They have had Booker (can DM have similar impact as him?), CP3 (great leader but aging player), and Ayton. The others are just average to above average players.

The Heat went to the Finals two years ago and the ECF this past season. They essentially have Jimmy Butler and Bam and some dudes.

While there is no chance that we can replace Gobert's defensive impact, perhaps having another player that has more shooting range will open things up and keep defenses more honest and getting a bit bigger and having players that are more athletic and able to play on both ends of the court, even if they are just average to slightly above average starters, will make enough of a difference.

To be honest, I am not totally sure, but the more I look into full on tanking, the more worried I am that we could become a Magic, Kings, TWolves, etc. Relying solely on the draft instead of using contracts and picks to acquire known players is a gamble.

The difference is the Suns and the Heat didn't trade their best player. They kept their best player(s) and added to them. It's not the same comparison at all.

Obviously, thanks to freaking Dennis we hardly had any assets to add to our best players. That Obviously was a factor.

The Jazz have had to rebuild a couple times. They did it after Stockton/Malone and after Dwill/Boozer. They are a well run organization and there is not reason to think we'll be the Kings as history shows that's not the type of FO we have.