Utah after Indiana's Jeff Foster?

[celtspacers]

SAS has been trying to get foster for a couple weeks now. they've offered Barry and this years 1st round draft choice. The Suns are also talking to the Pacers.

[edfmx86]

i dont want foster right now....the jazz are great

why fix it if it ain't broken, imo.

[troy]

i dont want foster right now....the jazz are great

why fix it if it ain't broken, imo.

We're no better than the Suns teams this past three years , terrific during the regular season , dangerous in the postseason , but will never go all the way .
Why ? Defense is not good enough.

We will not win with a Okur/Boozer duo inside. It's way too weak defensively.

I'm not saying Foster is the answer but i'm saying this team will not win the championship in its current form.

[Malone Strong]

What is with the hype surrounding Jeff freaking FOSTER!!!??? I heard some clown say Foster was athletic and skilled. Ok genius, if Foster is an athletic and skilled BIG in the East, the Pacers are dominating, let alone struggling to survive....

[karizma87]

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We will not win with a Okur/Boozer duo inside. It's way too weak defensively.

with what duo did we make the NBA FINALS last year? you're a clown for comparing memo to that scrub...go put foster on your nba live team.

[loserX]

with what duo did we make the NBA FINALS last year? you're a clown for comparing memo to that scrub...go put foster on your nba live team.

We made the NBA finals last year?

[stevebozell]

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We made the NBA finals last year?

Thats what I was asking.

[Pai Gow]

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We made the NBA finals last year?

If you think about it though, the Western Conference Finals is BASICALLY the NBA Finals.

[stevebozell]

If you REALLY want to think about it, the Western Semis with SA and PHX was the finals.

[Malone Strong]

If you REALLY want to think about it, the Western Semis with SA and PHX was the finals.

Jazz went 3-1 against Suns, including one without BOozer. So if you think about it, the Amare suspension may have cause the Jazz a championship....
:banhgead:

[erudite23]

It's not what he's worth to us, it's what he's worth to other contending teams. If Utah doesn't pony up, then we'll just ship him to Phoenix or San Antonio, and those teams will get even further ahead of Utah than they already are.

Foster was the starter on our 61-win team 4 years ago, which was a better team than anything the Jazz have had since 3 years before Malone and Stockton broke up. He's not starting now because coach Jim O'Brien likes Murphy's shooting (the same way that he liked Antoine Walker's shooting from the PF position). But I can say with certainty that Jeff Foster is better than Troy Murphy, and since Troy is no less than equal to Memo, that means Foster is better than Memo. Jump shooting big men are a dime a dozen and don't bring in W's. Big men who grab every rebound in sight and play scrappy defense, not so much. Foster will take your soft team to the next level. Memo shooting 42% while rebounding like a SF will not.

As for Okur, in case you haven't noticed, I don't want him, never have, never will. Murphy is considerably more productive than Okur this season, and we're stuck with him, so why pay $9M a season to add a poor rebounding version of him?

Season averages, Murphy on top, Okur on bottom:



Paul Millsap is 6'8" in high heels. He plays with heart, I'll give him that, but he'll never be a starter-worthy player due to his size. We have Diogu who's a more gifted scorer and an equal rebounder while also being an inch taller with a bigger wingspan, and he barely even plays. So why would we want or need Millsap?

I'm torn on Morris Almond. On one hand, he put up huge scoring numbers in college and now in the NBDL. On the other, he's done it against very weak competition, with very questionable shooting percentages, and his overall game looks weak. To me, it looks like there's a better than good chance he's nothing more than a shot chucker.

I really like C.J. Miles. I think he's a future stud. But he's a free agent at seasons end, so he's not worth the risk, especially considering the fact that we lose his bird years in a trade. If we want Miles, we can just offer him $3-4M per in the offseason and move Foster elsewhere.

Your 1st is mildly interesting, but I'm not even sure if it's tradeable since the Korver deal.

I think I'd rather move Foster to Phoenix for Banks and Atlanta's lottery-protected 1st than anything you guys have to offer. That means Phoenix gets even better, while your team stands pat. Considering the Suns are already better than you now, that's not a good thing.

I'm so glad that you found the time to take the worst stretch of Memo's career and juxtapose it with what Murphy is currently doing.

I wouldn't expect you to be aware of it, but Memo had a bad case of dancer's toe that was effecting him more than anyone could have imagined early in the season. He then hurt his shoulder, missing several games--which just happened to coincide with the Jazz' slew of losses during December--before finally getting healthy about 4-5 weeks ago.

Now let's look at the numbers of each player over the last calendar month:


Name....FG%...FT%...3ptpg...3pt%...Pts...Reb...Ast...Stl....Bl....A/TO
Murphy...41.0....83.....0.8......36%....9.2...7.2...1.9...0.9...0.3....1.47
Okur.......46.0....81.....2.1......46%...15.0..8.0...1.9...1.1...0.6....1.50

With Memo playing ~35mpg and Murphy playing about 24mpg.

Not exactly what you would call "the same guy", as Memo is AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN, a more effecient scorer than Murphy, who plays smarter and is a better team player. Murphy rebounds well, but besides that he is a horrid defender, who is a volume scorer/shooter that does basically nothing else well.....and gets paid 10m+ more to do it.

There is a reason that Memo is seen as a bargain at 8m per season, while Murphy will constantly be up for sale to anyone willing to take him on. Sorry, but no dice.


But we agree on one thing, though, and that is that Memo would not be a good "get" for Indiana, nor would he be someone that the Jazz want to deal away, either, so it should be a non-issue.

The bigger issue is this: what value does Foster present?

For a team that has a hole in its big man rotation, and could use more rebounding and position defense, he presents solid value. But he is older, on the down swing, and will likely not be a part of the future for whatever team trades for him. So that leaves teams that are looking to contend now. The list:

1) SA:
Set with Oberto, Horry and Elson around Tim D. Could use Foster, but the main problem that SA has now is age, and you're hoping that they will further deplete their ability to get good young blood by trading away this year's first and Barry for a very small upgrade? Keep dreaming. Also, they are aware that this pick is likely to be the highest they've had since TD arrived.

2) Pho:
From a "fit" standpoint, the best situation for Foster. Unfortunately, that simply is not going to happen. They just gave away 2 first round draft picks to get Kurt Thomas off of their books, you think they are going to turn around and trade for a white version of him? Not realistic. UNLESS, the Pacers are willing to swallow the poison pill contract of Marcus Banks, which would be crazy to do unless Phoenix offers Atlanta's 1st rounder in the bargain. I would laugh at the mere prospect of this, but you can't underestimate Sarver's willingness to sacrifice basketball to save money, so I can't completely rule this out. If it were to happen, it would be the best deal for Indy, but I still contend that this is a pipe dream.

3) Denver:
Too many big guys making too much money here, and I believe they wouldn't want him anyway, as the scheme is ill-suited for his talents.

4) Portland:

Aldridge, Prizbilla, Oden, Frye.....no thanks.

5) Dallas:

Diop and Dampier are holding down the "big man who doesn't do anything but defend and rebound" role just fine, and their pay role is out of control, AND they don't have much to offer, anyway. Nada.

6) Golden State:

Horrible fit. Nelson doesn't play guys like him, and they are a lot farther away from getting to a title game then their fans want to admit, anyway. Plus they just signed Webber.

7) Houston:

Would fit nicely next to Yao, but Houston is already committed to Scola, and they have a nice guy in the Foster-mold already with Chuck Hayes. Would be a nice upgrade, but nothing worth what they would have to give up.

New Orleans:

Would give good depth....but let's get real, here. They aren't going to take on much more in the way of payroll, as they have a ton of money sunk into the starting 5 already, and they don't really have much to offer, anyways. They don't have a glaring need to add a player like him, so he would just be a "nice" additional peice. While the fit is good, there is no motivation to give up much of worth to get him, as they are already strong inside both rebounding and defending.

9) LA:

Already payroll issues, but they have pulled their big trade off, and likely will stand pat. Not much to gain from his addition, and they already traded away all the picks that they can, plus one of their prospects. Not happening here.

10) Boston:

Nothing here to offer, move along.

11) Detroit:

Might be the best fit.....but would Dumars make the move? He would likely have to give up a first, but is Foster that much of an upgrade over the Maxiell, Wallace, McDyess trio? He would take him, but he's not offering a first and an expiring for him. Nooooo way.


Not counting Utah, that is the 11 best places for him......NONE of which look ready to make a move for him like you're talking about. The ONLY conceivable way that you could get anything better than a late-first and a bad contract in return for him is if Sarver becomes so desperate to get away from Banks' contract that he is crazy enough to add a mid-first round draft pick in the deal. That move would be universally killed in the media if it happened, so its not like you could then say "see, Foster really was worth that much" any more than you could say that a 2nd rounder > or = two 1st rounders and Kurt Thomas.

No, the MOST you could hope to get in return for him would be a late first rounder and a small expiring contract.....basically the same package we gave for Kyle Korver. Even then, that would have to be considered a serious coup by Indiana's front office, as Korver has substantially more value because of his youth.

Indeed, more than likely, Foster will play out his contract for a slightly sub-.500 team, make very little difference, and then hit FA in the summer of '09 as a 33-year old role player looking for a home.....unless, that is, Larry Bird builds upon his past accomplishments of writing the checks for overpaid white guys and gives him a 3 year 30m dollar extension. Then you could have TWO 10million dollar white stiffs.

[troy]

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with what duo did we make the NBA FINALS last year? you're a clown for comparing memo to that scrub...go put foster on your nba live team.

First of all like the other posters said , we didn'tmake the NBA Finals and anyway we had a very easy trip to get there (Houston is overrated and GS is perfect for us in terms of matchup).

All i know is that the Suns made the WCF 3 years ago , the Mavs made the WCF five years ago !! , and right now they still haven't win the titles. Wanna know why ? Defense is not good enough. Great offense will take you deep in the playoffs , but in the end you need to get the defensive stops to win it all.

We CANNOT WIN THE TITLE with Memeth Okur inside. We need a guy that will do the dirty work. Okur's impact offensively is also way overrated by some Jazz fans , especially with Korver's addition.

Utah can't get overconfident with a 9 game winning streak. The Mavs and Suns have had many 9 games winning streaks over the years if you know what i mean.
The Jazz is set offensively with or without Okur. Now the defense needs to be improved.

I'm not sure at all Foster is the perfect answer. But he is definitely a step in the right direction.
Karizma , You probably think he is a scrub , but i'm sure if Oberto and Bowen weren't playing for the Spurs you would say they are scrubs too. Because you don't know what's important in basketball. Offense is great , but defense and team play is also important.

[Bucky O'Hare]

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Jazz went 3-1 against Suns, including one without BOozer. So if you think about it, the Amare suspension may have cause the Jazz a championship....
:banhgead:

Don't get cocky. You wouldn't have beat Phoenix. It took you 7 games to beat a mediocre Rockets team and the Warriors were flukes. The Suns would've disposed of you just as easily as the Spurs did.

[Bucky O'Hare]

What is with the hype surrounding Jeff freaking FOSTER!!!??? I heard some clown say Foster was athletic and skilled. Ok genius, if Foster is an athletic and skilled BIG in the East, the Pacers are dominating, let alone struggling to survive....

Wow, maybe the worst post I've ever read on RealGM.

Foster is a rebounding machine and a hard-nosed defender. Those two attributes are more valuable than jump shooting out of a big man. Jump shooting is what your guards are there for. Your big men are suppose to play defense and rebound. Your interior defense is not only the worst of all the playoff teams in the league, it may be the worst in the league, period. You're 20th in the league in opponent FG%, and this is with having a top-10 perimeter defense. That tells you something is seriously wrong with your front court's defense. You're also dead last in opponents points-per-shot. Point blank - your defense is crap on a stick. And a crappy defense is a recipe for playoff failure. You can throw out Memo's offensive stats all you want but these 3 things are facts...

1) he has perhaps the worst FG% of any starting big man in the league
2) he's perhaps the worst rebounding PF/C in the league
3) he's perhaps the worst defending PF/C in the league

Those three factors are why no one is taking Utah serious as a contender in the West. I don't give a damn what your regular season record is. When it's playoff time, your team is built to fold like an accordion.

Gasol, Bynum, and Odom would murder you.
Duncan and Oberto would murder you.
Shaq, Amare would murder you.
Yao and Scola would murder you.
Chandler and West would murder you.
Dirk and Dampier would murder you.

And God forbid none of these teams add a top-5 rebounder and top-10 low post defender in Jeff Foster to naturalize Boozer. If that were the case, you'd be swept. Your only hope of even getting out of the 1st round would be if you played the Warriors or the Nuggets. And beyond that? Forget about it.

[Bucky O'Hare]

I'm so glad that you found the time to take the worst stretch of Memo's career and juxtapose it with what Murphy is currently doing.

I wouldn't expect you to be aware of it, but Memo had a bad case of dancer's toe that was effecting him more than anyone could have imagined early in the season. He then hurt his shoulder, missing several games--which just happened to coincide with the Jazz' slew of losses during December--before finally getting healthy about 4-5 weeks ago.

Now let's look at the numbers of each player over the last calendar month:


Name....FG%...FT%...3ptpg...3pt%...Pts...Reb...Ast...Stl....Bl....A/TO
Murphy...41.0....83.....0.8......36%....9.2...7.2...1.9...0.9...0.3....1.47
Okur.......46.0....81.....2.1......46%...15.0..8.0...1.9...1.1...0.6....1.50

With Memo playing ~35mpg and Murphy playing about 24mpg.

Not exactly what you would call "the same guy", as Memo is AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN, a more effecient scorer than Murphy, who plays smarter and is a better team player. Murphy rebounds well, but besides that he is a horrid defender, who is a volume scorer/shooter that does basically nothing else well.....and gets paid 10m+ more to do it.

1) Murphy's outplaying Memo this year. Murphy, too, has played with an injury so that's not an acceptable excuse.

2) Career-wise, their production is equal. Memo's been the slightly better scorer, Murphy the significantly better rebounder and defender. (Murphy on top, Okur on the bottom)



3) Murphy's contract is larger, thus worse. He has negative value around the league. But so does Okur. Jeff Foster has positive value, thus he's worth more than either. In fact, Foster was listed as one of the best contracts in the league recently. If Foster were a free agent, he'd get no less than $8M per. He's a proven top-10 center and was the starter on a 61-win team.


By the way, since you're so obsessed with age, I'd like to point out that Troy Murphy is a full year younger than Memo Okur.

There is a reason that Memo is seen as a bargain at 8m per season, while Murphy will constantly be up for sale to anyone willing to take him on. Sorry, but no dice.

No one outside of Utah considers Memo a bargain at $9M per. He doesn't rebound nor play defense, and he's not that efficient of a scorer, thus he doesn't bring in the W's.

1) SA:
Set with Oberto, Horry and Elson around Tim D. Could use Foster, but the main problem that SA has now is age, and you're hoping that they will further deplete their ability to get good young blood by trading away this year's first and Barry for a very small upgrade? Keep dreaming. Also, they are aware that this pick is likely to be the highest they've had since TD arrived.

Age isn't an issue with San Antonio. They're about the now, not the later. Foster would be the best sidekick Duncan's had since Robinson retired. He'd instantly be their starter and would take their interior defense and rebounding to a higher level. Considering the monster the Lakers have put together, there's 0 chance the Spurs would pass up the chance to add Foster for the small price of a late 1st round draft pick.

2) Pho:
From a "fit" standpoint, the best situation for Foster. Unfortunately, that simply is not going to happen. They just gave away 2 first round draft picks to get Kurt Thomas off of their books, you think they are going to turn around and trade for a white version of him? Not realistic. UNLESS, the Pacers are willing to swallow the poison pill contract of Marcus Banks, which would be crazy to do unless Phoenix offers Atlanta's 1st rounder in the bargain. I would laugh at the mere prospect of this, but you can't underestimate Sarver's willingness to sacrifice basketball to save money, so I can't completely rule this out. If it were to happen, it would be the best deal for Indy, but I still contend that this is a pipe dream.

Indy would gladly take on Banks meager contract. 3/$13.4M isn't that bad for a backup and if it lands us a mid-1st it would be well worth it. Again, Foster would take the Suns rebounding and interior defense to the next level, something they need almost as badly as your Jazz. Considering the Suns are playing to win now and not the future, Fosters age (31) is a non-factor. If the Shaq deal falls through, I see this deal going down in the coming weeks.

7) Houston:

Would fit nicely next to Yao, but Houston is already committed to Scola, and they have a nice guy in the Foster-mold already with Chuck Hayes. Would be a nice upgrade, but nothing worth what they would have to give up.

Scola is the typical Euro soft big (not as soft as Memo though, I don't think anyone in the league is). Hayes is a 6'5" PF. Foster is a far superior player to both. I'd happily give Foster up for the Rockets lotto-protected 1st and salary filler, and I'm sure Rockets management would happily oblige.

10) Boston:

Nothing here to offer, move along.

Draft picks, perhaps Tony Allen, who I consider a better prospect than Almond.

11) Detroit:

Might be the best fit.....but would Dumars make the move? He would likely have to give up a first, but is Foster that much of an upgrade over the Maxiell, Wallace, McDyess trio? He would take him, but he's not offering a first and an expiring for him. Nooooo way.

Considering Foster would be their starting center, I'm certain he would. Foster's rebounding and defense would make Detroit the team to beat in the East. I'd be well worth it to Dumars.

Indeed, more than likely, Foster will play out his contract for a slightly sub-.500 team, make very little difference, and then hit FA in the summer of '09 as a 33-year old role player looking for a home.....unless, that is, Larry Bird builds upon his past accomplishments of writing the checks for overpaid white guys and gives him a 3 year 30m dollar extension. Then you could have TWO 10million dollar white stiffs.

And both of them would be more valuable than your non-rebounding, non-defending, jump shooting, 42% shooting, out of shape, injury prone $9M stiff.

[@ndrew]

Okur with negative value? are you on crack? Should I create a thread in Trade Board or Player Comparison boards to watch how people will laugh at you?

[Jazzfan Bayamon]

Well, as I said, it's (at most) Almond, Collins and Hart. Take it or leave it. And if you leave it, LEAVE WITH IT!!!

[karizma87]

[quote="troy"][/quote]

there's no easy road to the western finals, don't be ignorant. the jazz made it with large thanks to memo even though he didn't play well, and memo won the ring with the pistons before, and dumars didn't wanna let him go then. we do have guys like collins and millsap to do the "dirty work" since you're so obsessed with it. the jazz offence will suffer with memo gone, and our record with him gone shows it. stop hating, you're just making yourself sound dumb like the guy that's talking about troy murphy lol...

[cougarfan]

Memo is better than Murphy. I wouldn't trade Memo for anyone on the pacers with the exception of O'neal. If Pacer fans haven't noticed, the Jazz are on a roll. Why would we give up a decent player to get Foster. I'm all for getting a defensive big, but i think they need a shot blocking big before they need a rebounding big. I also find it funny how memo averages two more points a game throughout their careers, and Bucky calls it a slight advantage. Murphy averages one more rebound, and he calls it a significant advantage. Those two things are about the same advantage if you ask me.

[The Sheik]

OMG they just gave Marion for Shaq...lets panic and trade Memo for George Muresan.