Does Kirilenko have any trade value?

BarneyGumble · Post #1 » by **BarneyGumble** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:36 pm

I always read some Jazz fan goons declare "lets trade Ak + Booz + CJ for this that and the other" in order to solve all the Jazz problems. Well, I have decided that its time to shake up our core. Williams + Booz + AK + Okur has gotten us to the WCF, the 2nd round, and two first round exits (I would bet my life savings on us getting beat by Denver).

But is trading away a core piece really so easy to do? Okur's value has gone from respectable to zilch with one pain injection and ruptured acchiles (this is an injury that a player seldom returns from, much less returns to peak levels).

Booz will leave us for the $$$. Fine, let him go. He wants max type money and if someone out there wants to give it to him, then so be it. I dont think he's worth it because he only plays on one side of the floor.

DWill is our cornerstone, he's not going anywhere.

That leaves us with AK. Here's a guy that Dallas once offered us Dirk for, and we said no (and at the time, we were right to say no). I would have thought AK had some value earlier this season when he fueled our streak. Now, I'd question if anyone would take his max contract on given Kirilenko's continuing injury problems. Does he have two years left on his deal? Is there any reason a team would want to trade for him, and if so, what would we be getting in return?

Im not normally a fan of "blow it up and start again," but that being said, our current core has been together for 4 years and is now regressing. Its time to start over.

hoops4life · Post #2 » by **hoops4life** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:44 pm

Okur has never relied on his outstanding athletic ability to get by, so I don't think that the Achilles problem with be as big of a deal as it is for others. It will set him back, just not as much.

Dallas never offered Dirk for Ak. They offered Josh Howard and look at him now.

Ak has one year left and it is a huge expiring contract. I would guess that it is the largest one for this up coming season. A team would trade for him to clear a ton of cap space.

The Sheik · Post #3 » by **The Sheik** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:47 pm

Look what T-Mac got Houston...

AK has value, but it wont be till the deadline. I also wouldn't be banking on Boozer leaving for the $$$. Hate to make a positive out of a negative, but Memo's injury helps Booz coming back to Utah. As does the increase in the cap.

XL21MVP · Post #4 » by **XL21MVP** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:04 pm

The Sheik wrote:Look what T-Mac got Houston...

AK has value, but it wont be till the deadline. I also wouldn't be banking on Boozer leaving for the $$$. Hate to make a positive out of a negative, but Memo's injury helps Booz coming back to Utah. As does the increase in the cap.

T-Mac was a proven star....AK47 is a proven fail

XL21MVP · Post #5 » by **XL21MVP** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:05 pm

Adios, amigo.

mark53 · Post #6 » by **mark53** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:05 pm

okur expiers next year as well, I would not be surprised to see at least one of them go by next years deadline. If they both went we clear around 25 mil. which is why I think the jazz will offer booz max money, because by trading one of the aforementioned players they would be under the tax.

UTJazzFan_Echo1 · Post #7 » by **UTJazzFan_Echo1** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:54 pm

The giant expiring of AK's contract will probably draw some interest especially for an up-tempo type team that he could help before he goes. The T-Mac comparision is spot on except New York wanted T-mac to basically try him out for next years team, dunno how many teams would want that with AK. Maybe a GSW or PHX would want him since he would fit nicely with the teams system and give them some money to throw around in the off season but the Jazz may just want to hold onto him like they did with Boozer and see if they can re-sign him for cheap.

Post #8 » by **jazzfan1971** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:16 pm

AK has a lot more in the tank than Tmac IMHO.

I think his trade value will be huge. But, will the Jazz be in a position to take on salary? Me thinks not. So, we'll probably just let him expire and use the savings ourselves.

The impact of the new CBA is huge. I don't think we'll want to take on ANY long term large contracts until we see how things shake out.

So, lets say Gilbert Arenas was offered for AK. I think we'd say no.
Monta Ellis. Same.
Elton Brand. Same.

You get the idea.

The only thing I could possibly see is if a team had a player with 2 years left that they were desperate enough to atatch a lotto pick to it to dump. I think the Jazz could live with one extra year if the incentive was enough. But, a solitary lotto pick might not be sufficient.

kamazilla · Post #9 » by **kamazilla** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:15 pm

We keep AK and sign him to reasonable contract in 2011. He is the only real defensive catalyst on the team, has an amazing skill-set, great length and athleticism, and has many miles left in the tank. His value to this team is irreplaceable in the near term. Whatever we received in exchange for trading AK would only possibly plug another gap while creating a much larger one.

We also do whatever is needed in order to retain Booze. That is, if management actually is in this business to win. The problem with this core is, and has always been, an egregious lack of length, defense and toughness in the middle. Boozer's defense has picked up this season substantially, yet he lacks the lateral quickness and length of a true intimidator.

Okur has size and can actually play decent position defense against the big, lumbering sloths of the league, yet he is a turn-style against athletic 4's and 5's. Its amazing to me the flak Boozer continues to absorb on this board, while Okur is rarely called out for his shortcomings defensively. What's more, Boozer is exponentially more consistent on the offensive end. With Booze out of the line-up, the Jazz sputter offensively in addition to being defensively challenged. I'm stating the obvious in saying we need a long, athletic defensive center in the worst way.

What the Jazz need to do in order to achieve the next level is what has always needed to be done: address the glaring weaknesses which hold this team back. Unfortunately, making cost saving moves this season has created all new gaps to be filled, and squandered assets we may have used in order to fill them.

freddy · Post #10 » by **freddy** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:40 pm

Would Utah consider a trade like this with Detroit this offseason?

Rip, Prince, Wilcox for Kirilenko, Okur?

Utah would immediately save ~$2 million dollars and fill an extra roster spot by trading 3 for 2. The 2 that they trade are 2 of their highest paid players (albeit expiring). They also get ~$13 million in expiring contracts coming back in (Prince + Wilcox) - that being said Utah improves the roster while not killing themselves with long term contracts. Provided they resign Boozer & Wesley Matthews they look like this next year:

Williams / Price?
Rip / Matthews
Prince / Miles
Boozer / Millsap
Koufos / Wilcox

Utah would probably need to sign or draft a big man (maybe Aldrich would be available with New York's pick?). Rip & Prince would fit in well with the current Jazz team as well.

From an outsiders perspective this seems to make a lot of sense from Utah's perspective. From Detroit's perspective it balance's out the roster in the short term and provides flexibility in the long term.

hoops4life · Post #11 » by **hoops4life** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:53 pm

The salary cap is going up this off season and with the economy on the rebound I bet the following off season that the cap is going to go up even more than it is this off season. The Jazz's cap space isn't totally screwed as some people are making it out to be.

freddy · Post #12 » by **freddy** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:03 pm

hoops4life wrote:The salary cap is going up this off season and with the economy on the rebound I bet the following off season that the cap is going to go up even more than it is this off season. The Jazz's cap space isn't totally screwed as some people are making it out to be.

The main reason for doing the trade I suggested isn't because of money savings (at least not in my eyes). Utah does save some money, but that should allow them to add another asset. I believe they are also upgrading the overall talent level of the roster while at the same time staying out of tax territory.

BarneyGumble · Post #13 » by **BarneyGumble** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:01 pm

freddy wrote:
hoops4life wrote:The salary cap is going up this off season and with the economy on the rebound I bet the following off season that the cap is going to go up even more than it is this off season. The Jazz's cap space isn't totally screwed as some people are making it out to be.

The main reason for doing the trade I suggested isn't because of money savings (at least not in my eyes). Utah does save some money, but that should allow them to add another asset. I believe they are also upgrading the overall talent level of the roster while at the same time staying out of tax territory.

FWIW I would actually consider this, but the Wilcox/Okur part of it makes me hesitate.

HolyToledo · Post #14 » by **HolyToledo** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:38 pm

Nets with their Russian owner might be willing to accept his large expiring contract in exchange for future draft picks (such as protected #1), espeically since he only has one year left and can sign an extension. They have the cap space to absorb his salary for one year without trading back tot he Jazz a large contract. Jazz do this gives them extra cash to sign Boozer.

I can see it happening but this year has proven that the Jazz are a better team with AK-47. This season has also proven that ownership has a huge concern about money even if it makes the team worse. Winning a championship is a secondary concern to this Miller regime.

Post #15 » by **jazzfan1971** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:44 pm

I'd jump on a small contract and a top 3 protected NJ pick for AK. I don't think they'd do it though.

Post #16 » by **StocktonShorts** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:51 pm

mark53 wrote:okur expiers next year as well

I keep hearing people say this but it's incorrect. Okur opted in for 2009-2010 (this year) then signed a two-year extension. That puts him under contract through the 2011-2012 year.

http://www.sltrib.com/jazz/ci_13643454

http://www.hoopdata.com/salaries/UTH.aspx

Post #17 » by **StocktonShorts** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:59 pm

As for AK... there's nothing inherently valuable about an expiring contract. They become valuable under certain market conditions, such as teams desperately trying to shed salary for an upcoming crop of free agents. Even then you're often trading an expiring contract for a LONGER-term contract that's still bad (Kevin Martin), it's just LESS bad than what you have or it's a better fit for you.

HolyToledo · Post #18 » by **HolyToledo** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:37 am

jazzfan1971 wrote:I'd jump on a small contract and a top 3 protected NJ pick for AK. I don't think they'd do it though.

Top 3 protected ..sure the Nets say no...I was thinking they give up something with a pick the protections like the NYK pick had where Jazz maybe see the pick 5 years from now or Nets improve and the Jazz get a pic with lottery protected for 5 years

outerspacefella · Post #19 » by **outerspacefella** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:56 am

We have to be aware Kirilenko's contract stands for 30+% of the projected cap. That's huge. It would require an strange conjunction of circumstances for KOC to be able to trade during the offseason; and IMHO it would be hardt to trade him even by midseason tradeline when the Jazz already would have paid him about half of the 17.8+M of his contract...

Post #20 » by **StocktonShorts** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:44 am

outerspacefella wrote:We have to be aware Kirilenko's contract stands for 30+% of the projected cap. That's huge. It would require an strange conjunction of circumstances for KOC to be able to trade during the offseason; and IMHO it would be hardt to trade him even by midseason tradeline when the Jazz already would have paid him about half of the 17.8+M of his contract...

Yep.. and at that point, considering the Jazz would be the favorites to re-sign him to a decent contract, I'd question the wisdom in dealing him.