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Or something close to it.... just overpay for either of these guys. Its clearly the best option we could possibly get in terms of a center, and it would be expensive, but if we let Boozer go, resign AK cheap (they are both Restricted FAs in 2011) we could probably afford it. And then our pick shores up our frontcourt depth. Thoughts?

I believe the Jazz have no shot of ever winning a title, or even beating the lakers without a top notch interior presence defensively, of which none of our current or prospective big men (at #9) qualify. There is a reason bigs are overpaid... and it might hurt but we couldn't imagine a much better solution at the 5 than either of these two, even if its at 15-16 mil a year. Sure, they don't amaze on offense like Boozer, but they could get the job done in our system (good hands, athletic) and be awesome defensively.

Noah was a wet dream this year in the playoffs. Players that play with that amount of hustle and heart on every play like him are a true rarity. I would love that dude in a Jazz jersey.

...Noah was taken with the ninth pick in the draft though, so maybe we'll get lucky and not need to sign him.

Within the CBA where does this money come from?

kebutah wrote:Within the CBA where does this money come from?

They both expire at the end of 2011...AK will be off the books by then.

seejaydeja wrote:

kebutah wrote:Within the CBA where does this money come from?

They both expire at the end of 2011...AK will be off the books by then.

And this is why you don't do something like the Elton Brand trade. None of the picks in this year's draft (with the possible exception of Wall) are sure enough things to throw away what could be a really nice cap situation next summer.

If Lebron goes to Chicago, do you think that he is going to leave?

I very seriously doubt either of the two mentioned leave their respective teams. Furthermore, even were they available, odds are stacked against them signing with Utah. Noah was raised in an international jet-set lifestyle, I really don't see him finding great appeal in SLC even if the money is superior.

It is tenuous at best planning the future of an organization according to who may be obtainable through free-agency. That's like Miami saying, "Ya know, Deron Williams is some player; lets target him as our PG when his contract expires in 2012. Great, now that thats settled- I'm sure Wade will stay!" Even a team like the Knicks is not assured of getting the players on the top of their list.

Not to mention the fact that it is entirely possible that we do get the center we need through the draft, and sign him to a rookie scale contract. Better than the previously mentioned players for $15M per, no? One more point to consider: if Millsap and Noah are the starting front-line, where does the post offense come from? With no Boozer as a threat on the blocks, Noah is definitely not "clearly the best option we could possibly get in terms of a center".

IMHO, it makes no more sense to overpay for an offensively limited player than to overpay for a defensively limited player. Everyone agrees we must must add toughness, length and defense to our front-line. My conundrum is, I don't understand how loosing a great deal of offensive potency in order to do so improves the team.

Um...neither guy is a free agent until next summer--and then they will be restricted free agents. Bring up the topic again in a year.

kamazilla wrote:I very seriously doubt either of the two mentioned leave their respective teams. Furthermore, even were they available, odds are stacked against them signing with Utah. Noah was raised in an international jet-set lifestyle, I really don't see him finding great appeal in SLC even if the money is superior.

True, I still think SLC should make a run. Offer enough money that they actually consider it. Ben Wallace is one of the most loyal players I've seen, and he signed with the bulls (who were terrible) right after the pistons championship run. Granted.... Chicago > SLC in the eyes of the players... but still, money can overcome loyalty. Especially if they don't get lebron, and the hawks are probably gonna suck, especially if they lose johnson (likely in my book).

kamazilla wrote:It is tenuous at best planning the future of an organization according to who may be obtainable through free-agency. That's like Miami saying, "Ya know, Deron Williams is some player; lets target him as our PG when his contract expires in 2012. Great, now that thats settled- I'm sure Wade will stay!"

Dwill is a max contract franchise player... horford and noah are not. Franchise players rarely leave, role players (or 2nd best players in this case) leave much more often.

I'm not saying bet the farm on it, just saying we should make the offer. We're not gonna do anything else besides resign matthews etc and draft until then anyways (FOs decision, not mine).

kamazilla wrote:Not to mention the fact that it is entirely possible that we do get the center we need through the draft, and sign him to a rookie scale contract. Better than the previously mentioned players for $15M per, no?

We're not gonna get a horford / noah caliber player at #9. I hope we do, it's just not likely. It's obviously preferable to get horford at a rookie contract than at the max.... obviously. But that is a fantasy, not reality. THAT is "tenuous future planning."

kamazilla wrote:One more point to consider: if Millsap and Noah are the starting front-line, where does the post offense come from? With no Boozer as a threat on the blocks, Noah is definitely not "clearly the best option we could possibly get in terms of a center".

IMHO, it makes no more sense to overpay for an offensively limited player than to overpay for a defensively limited player. Everyone agrees we must must add toughness, length and defense to our front-line. My conundrum is, I don't understand how loosing a great deal of offensive potency in order to do so improves the team.

THIS is the thinking we, and the front office, NEED TO GET OVER. "What about the offense" has been the #1 factor driving almost all of our personnel decisions (including picks, that why we chose koufos right before Ibaka) for a decade it seems.

We need to think defense first.

Sloan's system and dwill ensure at least a modicum of offensive success no matter what. We scored plenty of points in the denver series with Fesenko at center (who isn't even as good at defense as these two options). We scored enough points in every game agains the lakers to win (except maybe the last, when our spirit was broken).

Millsap is a fine offensive player, I think he'll account for 90% of what Boozer produced. Okur isn't exactly an offensive juggernaut either. Both these players are great in the pick and roll, have a semblance of a jumper, and have good hands to finish what dwill puts in their lap.

It's easier the fix offense than defense. See Jazz season from 2005-2010. Especially with a great point guard. We've been one of the best offensive teams for several years not, why not go crazy and try emphasizing defense for a little bit?

Sure Millsap doesn't play with his back to the basket like boozer. But this doesn't mean he can't score in isolations. He has a great face up game, quick, draws fouls, good jumper, good step back moves, and solid post moves (see burning of artest, ron in the playoffs with a nasty up and under).

The celtics are getting like 20 combined pts per game out of perkins and KG and they are contenders. Bynum is a black whole so far on offense, but pau makes up for it. Can we just try the "defense first" philosophy? Please? I've seen what offense first produces....

Face it...we're not gonna get a center who is an A+ and offense AND defense. I would rather have an A+ defensive center who is a C+ at offense than a guy who is a C at defense and an A at offense. At least the former gives us a chance in the post season.

Apologies for the rant.

I agree with much of what you are saying. The Jazz must emphasize defense. A center with average scoring abilities would suit the Jazz fine as long as he could create havoc on defense consistently - but their offense is predicated on having a consistent post presence to spread the floor. Millsap doesn't offer that, and neither would Noah. The kind of game Boozer brings is every bit as hard to come by as a defensive center; why let that kind of rare asset walk for nothing in order to bet on the remote possibility of signing a player with completely different skills at a different position? We would be creating one weakness to hopefully address another- that's an interesting approach in trying to build a championship team.

You mention the Celtics as an example of how the Jazz would be served by obtaining a defensive center and letting the post offense go. A bit of a fallacious example, I think, in that their team make-up is completely different from the Jazz at every position, and nearly every rotation player on that team is a defensive stopper. Not to mention the fact that their offense comes from the 3, 2 and 1 positions. In order to achieve similar results, the Jazz would literally have to replace their whole team with guys who are elite level defenders. Lets just trade the Jazz for the Celtics! In order to actually improve our results, I maintain that we must acknowledge who we are in order to address our weakness while utilizing our strengths to the best of our ability.

I n service of that notion, lets remember that Noah was a ninth pick, and Horford was, what, a 7th? This draft is stacked with big men who could help the Jazz immensely; no reason not to give one of them a real shot next year. If it clearly is not working, AK's contract ends, Millsap will still be a strong trade asset, and by then Okur may be moveable. The Jazz will be in great shape to continue to improve as long as they maintain their strongest assets now. They simply do not have the talent to absorb the loss of any of their premier players with no compensation, particularly when they bring a unique dimension to the team.

I really understand your perspective and appreciate the discussion; we simply disagree on two particular points in this matter. As I've said earlier, it will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Were I to wager, I would say that the Jazz will let Boozer walk- and I disagree with that decision. And I can virtually guarantee they will try to find their 5 through the draft- which I do agree with, though I would try to move up.