Conservative mentatlity of the UJ

[ColdBlue]

There is a reoccuring theme being played out by our FO, and I think it is seen on many different aspects. Conservatism to a fault. I see it in regards to player aquisitions, I see it in regards to financial moves, and I see it in regards to game time strategy. I understand that the state of Utah has embraced this conservative ideolology and I see it come through with the majority of posters on this Utah board and I see it come through in the decision making of MY team and I am fed up with it.

My main problem is while I can see the benefits of patience and employing the conservative methodology, you just can't sit back and let this methodology dictate EVERY damned move you make. It creates a number of problems.

First of all, the main weakness with this methodology is that it never gives you an opportunity to take initiative. Basically it makes you a subject instead of a object. In layman terms - it turns you into a bitch. This in turn leads to a few of outcomes that I think we all can see:

#1 - Perpetual mediocrity
#2 - Exploitation
#3 - Not very sexy (in regards to attracting players and money)

It all comes down to your methodology in risk taking. When you do not take the initiative in regards to risk taking, you basically are laying down and letting others dictate to you and letting luck decide your success. This FO including Sloan is absolutely horrendous in terms of risk taking and will never find success unless it is handed to them on a silver platter. I'm disgusted with it. I feel like MY team is being run by a bunch of lemmings, and we are taking it in the arse by those who will take initiative.

Now if I were a player in the NBA, I don't think the lack of nightlife, the repressive culture, or the predominance of stale white bread in Utah would stop me from playing for the Jazz, but if I didn't have confidence in the FO to lead with a reasonable initiative there is no way I would play for this team.

Bottom line is our FO needs to grow a sack, and start dictating it's path instead of letting it be determined by someone else.

[Jazzfan12]

What risks are there to take in free agency currently? Or last free agency? Or the past few trade deadlines?

[DelaneyRudd]

It's not like the Lakers or Spurs are freewheeling. We don't know what the deals that don't happen but that the Jazz could have, or what deals the Jazz asked for but were turned down. We do know they traded 3 1st round picks for one and got Deron. We do know they matched Millsap's offer. I don't see the proof that the Jazz operate differently than other teams besides the also ringless Mavs and Blazers.

[stevebozell]

I don't see the proof that the Jazz operate differently than other teams besides the also ringless Mavs and Blazers.

But at least fans of those teams have something to talk about and get excited about, knowing their owners will make SOME sort of move. Following this team has gotten very boring...if I didnt live here and hadnt grown up here, I wouldnt follow them anymore.

[DelaneyRudd]

Unfortunately all the Billionaires in Utah are twice as conservative as Larry was.

[red4hf]

It's not about being conservative it's about being realistic......

The Jazz cannot afford to spend money like they are the Knicks or the Lakers or the Blazers......

That's just reality......

People think the Jazz played it safe with Hayward, whom do you prefer they drafted? Of the guys that were left? Which one?

As far as not making a trade to move up, do people here understand that the other teams have to AGREE to the trade?

Seriously...... This whining is getting repetative...... Seriously repetative......

[DelaneyRudd]

We can all talk about who should have been drafted, but the main problem people have is he's white. Paul George would not have been met with the same negativity. We'll just have to see how the team performs on the floor of NBA games at this point. Having opinions is great, but obsessing and worrying won't do anything. The product is the game, not the off season drama.

[ColdBlue]

It's not about being conservative it's about being realistic......

The Jazz cannot afford to spend money like they are the Knicks or the Lakers or the Blazers......

That's just reality......

People think the Jazz played it safe with Hayward, whom do you prefer they drafted? Of the guys that were left? Which one?

As far as not making a trade to move up, do people here understand that the other teams have to AGREE to the trade?

Seriously...... This whining is getting repetative...... Seriously repetative......

It's about taking initiatve. I really wasn't looking for anecdotal comparisons to the Lakers or the Knicks, but I guess I didn't expect anyone to really get the crux...

There is a difference between overspending and taking initiatve. That line is crossed when you defer to the league to resigning RFA's that have potential. When you do that, then you are subjected to the Knicks of which we obviously cannot compete with. It's dumb and it's a money maving strategy hoping that nobody wants our little jewels.

If the Jazz cannot afford to fail, then they should not be in the game. Basic premise of gambling, and that is what this league is.

On a side note - Portland is a smaller market than us, and they are the ones exploiting us. We are getting bullied by the small stack, which makes us the bitch. If you think I'm whining about this, then you must like being a bitch.

[jazzfan1971]

Coldblue is the type that thinks if we have a shot to bring in JR Smith we do so.

JR Smith? Sure.
Beasley? Hell yeah.
Artest? Look what he did for the Lakers.
Zach Randolph? Guy can score.


Coldblue just wants a winner. I get that. But, I don't think you build a winner with guys like that. Being a dynamic scorer is nice, but, where did the Jailblazers go with all that talent they had years ago? Nowhere.

It's not only about talent. You need guys who fit the system. Who fit the team. I'm sorry if that's too conservative, but, that's the Jazz. I think you'd better get used to it or find another team to root for.

I hear that Miami is looking for fans.

[babyjax13]

Whose to say that the Jazz didn't offer Wes a contract?

There have been times when I have been frustrated with this franchise (see Maynor) but they have taken huge risks in the past (Memo, Boozer).

[kebutah]

The Trib says:

From the start of free agency, Matthews’ camp was believed to have told the Jazz it would take a full midlevel deal to re-sign him. With that as the only option they were presented, the Jazz suggested Matthews find an offer elsewhere.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/49907 ... s.html.csp

So it appears Matthews did what the Jazz told him to do.

[ColdBlue]

I hear that Miami is looking for fans.

Hehe... I like it JF71. (not the Heat, but the burn)

I seriously might not support the Jazz in the future, but I can't switch allegiances. I just want my team to do something proactive more than once in 10 years.

Also, it's not about randomly going out and getting a scorer or whatever, it is about getting the tools that fit your team, but those tools are expensive and we want them to be handed to us on a silver platter. It isn't going to happen.

One thing further, I'm not so sure this team knows where it's going. It's based on the same old template and we have had 25 years to make it work. We get close, but we JUST CANT get over that hump and I think this is due to the unwillingness or unability to fail.

[ADWCTA]

We could scrap everything we've done fo rthe past 25 years and suck for 3 before starting over.

See how many fans 3 straigh tyears of 20-30wins gets you.
Remember the ONE season we were below 41-41? Remember how empty the seats were?

Sure, we could make stupid decisions... but we're not. If that's "conservatisim", then every team not in LA/NY should be embracing it.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

The problem is that we are a victim of our own success, simple as that.

[QuantumMacgyver]

The problem is that we are a victim of our own success, simple as that.

Agreed. It kind of sucks that the only way for a small market team to become great is to first become awful. That being said, here is to a 10 win season and the No. 3 pick!!!

[red4hf]

It's not about being conservative it's about being realistic......

The Jazz cannot afford to spend money like they are the Knicks or the Lakers or the Blazers......

That's just reality......

People think the Jazz played it safe with Hayward, whom do you prefer they drafted? Of the guys that were left? Which one?

As far as not making a trade to move up, do people here understand that the other teams have to AGREE to the trade?

Seriously...... This whining is getting repetative...... Seriously repetative......

It's about taking initiatve. I really wasn't looking for anecdotal comparisons to the Lakers or the Knicks, but I guess I didn't expect anyone to really get the crux...

There is a difference between overspending and taking initiatve. That line is crossed when you defer to the league to resigning RFA's that have potential. When you do that, then you are subjected to the Knicks of which we obviously cannot compete with. It's dumb and it's a money maving strategy hoping that nobody wants our little jewels.

If the Jazz cannot afford to fail, then they should not be in the game. Basic premise of gambling, and that is what this league is.

On a side note - Portland is a smaller market than us, and they are the ones exploiting us. We are getting bullied by the small stack, which makes us the bitch. If you think I'm whining about this, then you must like being a bitch.

What initiative? Matthews didn't want to sign for $3 million a year, or whatever we initially offered him....... You can't prevent RFAs from seeking offers from other teams....... That's how the system works....... You then have to allow the market to set the price for the player....... You can't force him to sign a contract he doesn't want to........

And how is Portland a "smaller market team"? The population of Portland is more than twice the population of Salt Lake City....... The Population or Oregon is bigger, by about a million or so, the population of Utah....... And with the Sonics now located in Oklahoma City, who are the Blazer's competitors? While the Jazz have the Nuggets located very close by....... And not to mention they have a billionaire owner who doesn't care about losing money......

Again, you have to be realistic.......

[MeestR]

It's not like the Lakers or Spurs are freewheeling.

lakers were one of the first teams this off-season to sign a new starter. the old starter was getting old and though he has a positive influence in the locker room, and can hit clutch shots, proved to be too inconsistent for a quick, high-paying contract. so they got another guard.

the jazz, it appears, have not only stayed put, but allowed their players to be plucked by other teams. improving from within? more like farming for other teams.

[kamazilla]

I agree with ColdBlue's sentiments completely, and expressed essentially the same thing in another thread. The Jazz continue to lack organizational decisiveness, and it has nothing to do with taking flyers on the slim chance they payoff. Its about creating opportunities as opposed to waiting for everyone else to act then scrambling for the leftovers.

How many more times will the Jazz be burned by their wait and see philosophy while everyone else prospers by our timidity? How long has it been obvious to everyone that an Okur/ Boozer front-court would never work while the Jazz continued to preach patience? How could they not realize that it was inevitable Mathews would receive a full MLE offer? Why would they not tender that offer themselves, thus allowing freedom to define the terms?

This is neither a market size nor a financial issue; it is a question of organizational philosophy and how effective the Jazz's has been in fielding the most competitive team possible given all the relevant considerations and constraints. In my estimation, the Jazz could have, and should have, built a more competitive team through clear organizational intention and focused, decisive action.

[ColdBlue]

What initiative? Matthews didn't want to sign for $3 million a year, or whatever we initially offered him....... You can't prevent RFAs from seeking offers from other teams....... That's how the system works....... You then have to allow the market to set the price for the player....... You can't force him to sign a contract he doesn't want to........

And how is Portland a "smaller market team"? The population of Portland is more than twice the population of Salt Lake City....... The Population or Oregon is bigger, by about a million or so, the population of Utah....... And with the Sonics now located in Oklahoma City, who are the Blazer's competitors? While the Jazz have the Nuggets located very close by....... And not to mention they have a billionaire owner who doesn't care about losing money......

Again, you have to be realistic.......

We initially offered Matthews the minimum 900K I believe. The thing I don't get, is why we had so much confidence in this kid to make him a starter, but yet not enough to sign him to a reasonable contract for a undrafted rookie knowing he would be RFA in the offseason?

Why didn't we do this BEFORE the Brewer trade? Am I missing something? Can we not sign our own players before FA? Wes was a gem last season that we had found, and we let him slip away.

Now about Portland - it's about TV market more than anything, and I was wrong in saying that they are smaller, but instead that they are similar. Portland has a slight edge, but we are in the same boat. Neither market has a NFL, MLB, or NHL franchise which are the real competitors in a market. We have MLS but I don't think it is a big impact.

With that said, we are still Portland's bitches, but not because of market share but because their owner is exploiting our failures to act.

[BarneyGumble]

While I dont agree with all of what Cold says, the writing is on the wall here that past FO mistakes are really coming back to haunt us. When we are unable to sign our own free agents, even the ones we are extremely high on like Matthews, we have a serious problem in the organization....I mean, hell, when we fail to return one of either Matthews or Korver, thats a significant problem.