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OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:48 am
by thomchatt3rton
Howdy- Bucks fan here. We've got a thread on our board discussing with CHI fans if its crazy to think we might be better than they will this year.
I said something about Boozer being a bit flaky (and got blasted by CHI fans, which is natural). I did overstate my point, but I do have that general impression of Boozer. So I turn to Jazz fans for their input..
I could have sworn I remember reading somewhere that Boozer had a slight reputation for taking games off, or something like that (or was it nursing injuries for inordinately long..?)
I know he's been hurt, and I realize Milsap got the nod over him, but I was under the impression some of his lack of PT and/or not starting were not always injury related. Was that the case? He's just never struck me as a tough-minded, 'lets go to work' professional- he seems flighty or something.
Can anybody here either corroborate or dispel these things? Or just give me some idea about where his head was at while with the Jazz? Or anything you want to add along these lines I'd appreciate- I realize I may have an impression of Boozer that he doesn't deserve
Thanks!
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:51 am
by DelaneyRudd
Boozer was great on the floor. He wasn't quick to return from injury and became awful against players like Gasol who were long enough to disrupt him. I think Jefferson makes the Jazz better, because he is a wash when not playing those players, but against the Lakers Jefferson and Bell will be invaluable. That's why they were targeted.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:57 am
by CAE15
you could perhaps make a case for boozer taking games off but it only happened when he had a injury it seemed. So you could say he milked injuries but no on the court i don't recall seeing him as disinterested. In defense yeah he takes tons of those plays off. or will just swipe going for a steal.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:01 am
by thomchatt3rton
DelaneyRudd wrote:Boozer was great on the floor. He wasn't quick to return from injury and became awful against players like Gasol who were long enough to disrupt him. I think Jefferson makes the Jazz better, because he is a wash when not playing those players, but against the Lakers Jefferson and Bell will be invaluable. That's why they were targeted.
Whats your opinion of him mentally though? I've been under the impression he was kinda flaky. I posted here because I wanted the opinion of fans who know him well on that particular aspect of Carlos Boozer.
Good luck with you guys' moves BTW. I've always been a bit of a Jazz fan myself. Plus, as a fan in Milwaukee, I admire the heck out of a small market team that has been so successful for so long.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:24 am
by DelaneyRudd
I don't quite get what flaky means. When he's playing he plays hard, and he's generally smart. He is just a untalented defender.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:27 am
by nyjazz
Booz is a great player, just not as competitive minded as the really great players which is very frustrating at times, especially for us Jazz fans who were spoiled for nearly two decades by Karl Malone's hard-nosed take no prisoner attitude. Al Jefferson will be an improvement even if Booz might be more talented.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:28 am
by DelaneyRudd
I wouldn't call him more talented. he's has more finesse moves.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:57 am
by carrottop12
I agree that the Bucks could be better than the Bulls. I like the additions that the Bulls have made over the summer, and I think if Jennings can continue to develop and Bogut comes back and keeps improving you could be a very talented team.
As far as Boozer goes, he doesn't really take games off as much as he just seems to space out sometimes. For example against the Lakers in the playoffs this year. In game 1, the Jazz were in position to win the game, and then Boozer uncharacteristically didn't follow a rebound, and let Odom grab it for the put back and the foul I believe. Little things like that aren't completely uncommon with Boozer, and that's why he can be so frustrating. Everyone once in a while he will lose a game with plays like that, but at the same time he makes huge plays sometimes and gets big buckets.
He definitely makes the Bulls a much better team, and I am curious to see if he is as good in Chicago as he was in Utah playing next to Rose instead of Deron, but your opinion that the Bucks could be better than the Bulls isn't completely indefensible.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:40 am
by thomchatt3rton
Bat wrote:I agree that the Bucks could be better than the Bulls. I like the additions that the Bulls have made over the summer, and I think if Jennings can continue to develop and Bogut comes back and keeps improving you could be a very talented team.
As far as Boozer goes, he doesn't really take games off as much as he just seems to space out sometimes. For example against the Lakers in the playoffs this year. In game 1, the Jazz were in position to win the game, and then Boozer uncharacteristically didn't follow a rebound, and let Odom grab it for the put back and the foul I believe. Little things like that aren't completely uncommon with Boozer, and that's why he can be so frustrating. Everyone once in a while he will lose a game with plays like that, but at the same time he makes huge plays sometimes and gets big buckets.
He definitely makes the Bulls a much better team, and I am curious to see if he is as good in Chicago as he was in Utah playing next to Rose instead of Deron, but your opinion that the Bucks could be better than the Bulls isn't completely indefensible.
Well, it wasn't my contention that we would be better necessarily (though I think we should be- but who knows?). My point was that IMO Chicago has too many question-marks/unknowns to warrant some of the sky-high projections some of their fans have (3rd seed in the East was one...)
They have a brand-new, untested first-time head coach, and a lot of new pieces, and I'm not sure who their leader is, or what their identity will be.
They seem like a fractured, inconsistent group last couple years, and I don't see Boozer as a stabilizing, rally-around-me-guys force..
But I agree Boozer will improve them, no doubt, and it should be fun competing with them for the central this year.
nyjazz wrote:Booz is a great player, just not as competitive minded as the really great players which is very frustrating at times, especially for us Jazz fans who were spoiled for nearly two decades by Karl Malone's hard-nosed take no prisoner attitude. Al Jefferson will be an improvement even if Booz might be more talented.
Maybe thats the best way to say what I'm trying to get at- not as competitive minded or consistent as you would hope for somebody with pretty tremendous physical gifts and talent. He was a monster there for a long time though.
Hate to say it, but I don't think you're getting that hard-nosed take no prisoner type of guy in Jefferson.. Not from what I've seen. But who knows, your FO has been uncanny with personnel moves (smart enough to draft Mo Williams, smart enough to let him go, for example
) and sometimes the change of environment alone does the trick.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:50 am
by Sloanfeld
Fans in Utah have criticized Boozer since he he first got injured. He spent much of his first two seasons hurt. Fans have been on him since. Some people are just injury prone. Boozer was always trying to rehab when he was hurt. I really don't have time for a big explanation so sorry my post sucks but I've always supported Boozer and believe that he was just the victim of bad luck. I think that he will not miss many games due to injury in Chicago. He is well spoken during interviews and I has a good attitude. I believe Boozer when he says he is committed to winning.
I'd also like to add that Sloan loved Boozer and I do think that many Jazz fans are insane. Jazz fans always point to Boozer being about the money but don't seem to realize that it's most players number one concern also.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:55 am
by HammerDunk
Well, you have to consider the shoe-ins for 1 and 2 in the east, being Miami and Orlando. Boston is getting older and the Hawks made no improvements. Cleveland will drop off the map completely. Chicago could very easily be that 3rd place team. If Bogut stays healthy all season long, they will be stiff competition for that 3rd spot as well. It depends on how well the offense is formed around Boozer. It could be a very potent offense, or could have some problems. If Chicago gets that figured out, I would be very wary of the Bulls.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:59 am
by HolyToledo
Boozer is a great post up player and rebounder, and gets most out of his talent offensively, BUT Im his biggest detractor
1) He will not play in pain no matter how important the game;
2) He is worst help defensive player in the league (yes the league); and
3) He will unfortunately be a cancer on the Bulls like he was a cancer on the Jazz. Everything Boozer has done in his career has been about Boozer and rarely about his own team!!
I wish the Bulls well because they have a good collection of talent and hopefully for your sake Noah can cover up Boozer's flaws. I think you will enjoy Korver and Brewer on your team much more than Boozer because they work hard to do their job.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:04 am
by Colby
I think Boozer's biggest flaws have a very good chance to be covered a majority of the time by Noah. With the exception being that frustrating ass swipe-foul (that seems to always be an EASY and-1...he's gone for sure, right?)
Anyway, I really started to believe, this last year at least, that when Boozer got on the floor, he genuinely wanted to win, and for the most part it seemed like he was fully invested, and I even went from hating his barking to absolutely loving it. He became clutch against just about everyone besides the Lakers.
Now, while he is not the beast we all envisioned he could someday be, I still respect him (and even more so after the sign-and-trade) as a person and as a player.
To the original poster Bucks fan guy: I think you may be cross-feeding his off the court rep with his on the court one. He will bring it, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's frustrating as hell because everyone who follows the league knows what a guy with his soft hands, athleticism and skill set is actually capable of. That's all.
Although the Phoenix game at the end of the year really did cement his flakiness when it came to injuries. Luckily he magically healed 3 days later to drop 19/7/3 blocks on Denver in game one, and 20/15 in Game 2.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:16 am
by Nate505
HolyToledo wrote:Boozer is a great post up player and rebounder, and gets most out of his talent offensively, BUT Im his biggest detractor
1) He will not play in pain no matter how important the game;
There's my biggest beef with him. A man who is getting paid millions a year wouldn't suit up for a game that was the difference between a three seed and a five seed. Maybe we've been spoiled with Stockton and Malone, but I remember seeing those guys playing in meaningless last games of the season just because a fan who bought a ticket for the game could get their money's worth.
Just think, the Jazz could have beat the Blazers and Spurs and then, well, probably still lost to the Lakers but still.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:17 am
by StocktonShorts
Nate505 wrote:...we've been spoiled with Stockton and Malone...
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:19 am
by jazzfan1971
I wouldn't call him flaky.
I'd call him mercenary. Boozer watches out for Boozer first. If that means nursing an injury, that's what it means. He'd have never been playing like Okur was wehn Okur got injured. Boozer doesn't take those kind of risks. He'll follow the money and put himself first always.
But, when he's playing he plays hard. Especially in a contract year.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:17 am
by DByrne86
In my 20 years as a Jazz fan Carlos Boozer is definitely one of the softest players I have ever seen play the sport. I'm joyous that we no longer have a soft p**** playing a power position. The man is incredibly overrated by those who don't have experience watching him shy away from contact and chuck mid-range jumpers on most nights.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:21 am
by carrottop12
We'll miss some of Boozer's traits. As annoying as watching a guy who can score at the rim so well choose to take fade away 15 footers, that shot was dangerous enough that teams had to guard him which really opened up the paint for some of our perimeter guys.
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:38 am
by thomchatt3rton
thanks everybody for your comments and insight so far- I appreciate it! I don't where I got my impression about Boozer (maybe it started with how he left CLE, I don't know.)
it seems like there's no clear consensus on any kind of head-case diagnosis (however slight), but maybe enough questions about his motivation to indicate there
is something there... Its always hard to say about stuff like that, and I prefer to give players the benefit of the doubt if things are in question. Maybe I owe Bulls fans an apology....
jazzfan1971 wrote:I wouldn't call him flaky.
I'd call him mercenary. Boozer watches out for Boozer first. If that means nursing an injury, that's what it means.
But, if
Sloanfeld wrote:Fans in Utah have criticized Boozer since he he first got injured. He spent much of his first two seasons hurt.... Boozer was always trying to rehab when he was hurt.
is true, then maybe I can't blame him for nursing injuries for longer than he should be.
For some reason I thought I heard that he used injuries as an excuse to not play because he was p**sed about something else. I must have misunderstood or am remembering incorrectly though..?
HolyToledo wrote:
I wish the Bulls well because they have a good collection of talent and hopefully for your sake Noah can cover up Boozer's flaws. I think you will enjoy Korver and Brewer on your team much more than Boozer because they work hard to do their job.
I agree, Noah's ideal as a help defender for less-than-defensive minded front-court mates. But for my sake, thats no good... I'm actually a Bucks fan.
Colby wrote:
To the original poster Bucks fan guy: I think you may be cross-feeding his off the court rep with his on the court one. He will bring it, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's frustrating as hell because everyone who follows the league knows what a guy with his soft hands, athleticism and skill set is actually capable of. That's all.
Not sure what you mean by his off-court rep- I'm not aware of anything off-court with Booze, what do you mean specifically?
As far as his physical gifts, skill-set etc goes- maybe thats another source of my impression of him- a guy with his gifts and talent should be dominating without question- which he has, for some time- but like you say, there are inconsistencies... So if he is not doing "what he's actually capable of" (which I agree with) to what do you attribute that inconsistency?
thanks again Jazz fans! keep em coming!
BTW- more I think about it, the more I think AJ and DW could be a nasty combination. Milsap fits in there nicely too, it seems to me. That sucks about Wes Mathews (whom I predicted would be the best NBA talent out of that Marquette squad's big 3...
) but you're probably right to not pay him. Cheers!
Re: OT: quick question about Boozer from out-of-state
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:48 am
by CAE15
Boozer is not loyal what so ever, he will go where the money is. this time it was the BullZZ next time I doubt he will chase a ring and I think he will go for the biggest contract he can get.