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Hayward's preseason stats:


Hayward: 6.2PPG, 1.8RPG, 2APG, 31% FG%, 1.2 turnovers per game


Not good at all, but to compare:


George: 5.2PPG, 4.4RPG, .8APG, 25% FG%, 1.2 turnovers per game

Aminu: 5.5PPG, 2.3RPG, .8APG, 32% FG%, 1.5 turnovers per game


Those were the guys picked directly ahead and behind Hayward. Other guys picked in the lottery


Aldrich: 1.8PPG, 3.8RPG, .8APG, 38% FG%, 1.25 turnovers per game

Favors: 5PPG, 5RPG, .5APG, 33% FG%, 1.8 turnovers per game

Henry: 5.7PPG, 3.2RPG, .8APG, 32% FG%, 2.2 turnovers per game

Davis: Out with injury

Udoh: Out with injury

Patterson: 3.2PPG, 3.6RPG, 1APG, 37% FG%, .8 turnovers per game


Now Greg Monroe, Wesley Johnson, and Evan Turner have played slightly better that (Closer to 9PPG and 40% from the field), and Wall and Cousins have played much better than that, but struggles are normal for rookies in preseason. He's doing fine. He does need to get less down after bad performances though.

I agree, I watched him in person a few days ago and he looked great. He's in a shooting slump but he defended well. I like how he drives to the basket. Also probably doesn't help when you have mass wings all competing for a roster spot from Bell/CJ to Nichols/Evans/Jeffers..people coming in and out of the lineup. We'll see in the rotation where he comes in.

Yeah, I don't know why everyone's been so down on him. There seems to be a belief already among many that he's not an NBA player. For a 19 year-old kid integrating himself into a new offense and playing against top competition, I think he's been just fine. I'm not worried about him at all.

The59Sound wrote:Yeah, I don't know why everyone's been so down on him. There seems to be a belief already among many that he's not an NBA player. For a 19 year-old kid integrating himself into a new offense and playing against top competition, I think he's been just fine. I'm not worried about him at all.

I'll bet this has a lot to do with how well Evans has performed in comparison to what everyone was expecting. The combination of that and the fickle "fans" wanting Hayward to fail so that they can say "I told you so".

*edit: That's not to say that everyone who thinks Hayward is playing poorly is a fickle fan. Just saying that they are out there.

I think I'm looking for his 'NBA skill'. Most players excel at something. Shooting, passing, defending, rebounding, slashing, ball handling.... Something.

I haven't seen anything out of Hayward as of yet that indicates to me that he has a skill that he excels at. That's why I projected him against Ryan Gomes and Marvin Williams. Those are guys that seem to stick around without having any one skill that they excel at (from the SF position where I see Hayward).

Maybe Ty Corbin for long time fans. Just a lil bit of everything. But, enough to stay on the floor.

Do you want a 'Ty Corbin' with the #9 pick? No, not really. But, it's probably not as bad as 2nd overall for Marvin Williams. And Marvin Williams is far from leading the list of bad picks.

JF1971, I would say his NBA skill right now is his passing, that would be the transparent one, but his IQ is through the roof. If this kid works his butt off on his shooting and finishing, and adds some muscle he could be a 12-15 ppg 2-4 apg 3-5 rpg guy and honestly with all the busts now adays I will take a rotation player/fringe starter. The only thing keeping Hayward on the floor is his IQ and ability to pick up the Jazz system. He knows what he is doing on offense, figuring it out on Defense. He just can't score right now. If he had 15 lbs of more muscle and could hit jumpers and threes consistently he would be the starter at the 3.

I would be surprised if Hayward made any impact on the floor this year, possibly next year. I don't get why you would draft a guy with limited upside as a project at #9. I hope he has something that hasn't been seen yet.

ColdBlue wrote:I would be surprised if Hayward made any impact on the floor this year, possibly next year. I don't get why you would draft a guy with limited upside as a project at #9. I hope he has something that hasn't been seen yet.

Well, IMO his biggest impact so far has been his lack of "negative impact" on the team. In other words, he hasn't messed up. He hasn't gotten burned on D, turned the ball over a lot, taken horrible shots that all result on easy buckets for the other team, etc. And, for a very young rookie, who was suspect on D coming in, I think that is preatty good. His only negative so far has been his shooting % but that should improve because he is a good shooter and is getting preatty good looks too. I'm more happy than not with Hayward so far.

Jazzfan Bayamon wrote:

ColdBlue wrote:I would be surprised if Hayward made any impact on the floor this year, possibly next year. I don't get why you would draft a guy with limited upside as a project at #9. I hope he has something that hasn't been seen yet.

Well, IMO his biggest impact so far has been his lack of "negative impact" on the team. In other words, he hasn't messed up. He hasn't gotten burned on D, turned the ball over a lot, taken horrible shots that all result on easy buckets for the other team, etc. And, for a very young rookie, who was suspect on D coming in, I think that is preatty good. His only negative so far has been his shooting % but that should improve because he is a good shooter and is getting preatty good looks too. I'm more happy than not with Hayward so far.

+1. Showing good things in the preseason is definitely nice, but I remember that Darius Miles was awesome his first summer, between summer league and the preseason, but was obviously a big disappointment from then on.

Ming Kong! wrote:

Jazzfan Bayamon wrote:

ColdBlue wrote:I would be surprised if Hayward made any impact on the floor this year, possibly next year. I don't get why you would draft a guy with limited upside as a project at #9. I hope he has something that hasn't been seen yet.

Well, IMO his biggest impact so far has been his lack of "negative impact" on the team. In other words, he hasn't messed up. He hasn't gotten burned on D, turned the ball over a lot, taken horrible shots that all result on easy buckets for the other team, etc. And, for a very young rookie, who was suspect on D coming in, I think that is preatty good. His only negative so far has been his shooting % but that should improve because he is a good shooter and is getting preatty good looks too. I'm more happy than not with Hayward so far.

+1. Showing good things in the preseason is definitely nice, but I remember that Darius Miles was awesome his first summer, between summer league and the preseason, but was obviously a big disappointment from then on.

Miles' dropoff was due to injury if I remember correctly.

Hayward made me eat some crow tonight.

Same, I was getting a little down on Hayward, nice to see him have a break out game like this, against Ron Artest no less.

QuantumMacgyver wrote:

The59Sound wrote:Yeah, I don't know why everyone's been so down on him. There seems to be a belief already among many that he's not an NBA player. For a 19 year-old kid integrating himself into a new offense and playing against top competition, I think he's been just fine. I'm not worried about him at all.

I'll bet this has a lot to do with how well Evans has performed in comparison to what everyone was expecting. The combination of that and the fickle "fans" wanting Hayward to fail so that they can say "I told you so".

*edit: That's not to say that everyone who thinks Hayward is playing poorly is a fickle fan. Just saying that they are out there.

Agreed. If you buy two TVs, one for $4000 and another for $100. You look at both and the $100 tv looks slightly better, you are going to be disappointed you bought the expensive TV. Great to see Hayward play tonight. Thanks Jazzfan for the comparison of Hayward to other rookies.

If tonight doesn't provide Hayward with a confidence boost, I don't know what would.

MacheteConfetti wrote:If tonight doesn't provide Hayward with a confidence boost, I don't know what would.

No kidding. I wanted the guy to just have a double digit game before the season started. A 20 point game against the Lakers who played pretty much all rotation players is a great thing.

To me, he's showing that he is out there working hard and hustling. He isn't taking the game off because of poor shooting. That's not something that can be taught. I always think to myself when I am playing pick up ball, if my shot isn't dropping, I'm just going to work my ass off and get rebounds or steals and defend like a beast, and make smart passes on offense. It seems to me that he has that kind of mindset, which will help him overcome some of his shortcomings against most opponents in the league. He looks like a very good passer.

As for the Laker game, that shows his potential, which is pretty damn good. I'm far from worried about this kid.

Man, this year we better make some noise, just look at a healthy rotation...

Okur/Fesenko/Elson
Jefferson/Millsap/Evans
Kirilenko/Miles
Bell/Hayward
Williams/Price/Watson

I'm not fully content with the decision making abilities of Price and Watson, but atleast Price gives us athleticism, and Watson is a good defender. I really loved what I saw from Hayward, and since he was a PG before his growth spurt he can see the floor very well and he made some terrific passes last night. Between Hayward and AK, we have some good passing for when Williams is on the bench.

Miles has made STRIDES as well, he showed Miles 2.0 in the playoffs, and I think he's glaring with confidence now. He's stroke is incredible right now, he could be amongst the league leaders this year, and he can definitely throw it down (as always). His added weight definitely helps, and he looks like he may be crashing on the boards a bit too and could provide 4-5 a game (a big difference compared to 2.7 last year).

BTW, I was curious to how Hayward is doing in comparison to the rest of rookies, and outside of Griffin, Wall, Turner, Cousins and Monroe, Hayward has been the best of the lottery picks.

Hayward is 13th overall in efficiency amongst rookies (Jeremy Evans is 6th), only four players drafted ahead of him are above him, there have been a few no name rookies that have been stand outs, but their minutes certainly will be reduced and wont be as productive during the season.

Hayward obviously had his shooting struggles earlier, but with just 1.5 tov he's taking care of the ball better than all the players drafted ahead of him. His ppg has caught up with the rest, he's 7th overall, that includes Blake Griffin too, so only 5 players from this draft are ahead of him, and actually just 3 of those players were drafted ahead of him.

My point is, at this point, Hayward could of gone 5th or 6th in the draft and he would of been a good pick. There will always be a few late first, and 2nd round picks that stride, then obviously a few undrafted and NBDL players too, but for what it's worth, we got quality in the draft.

Oh yeah, and lets not forget that Hayward plays for a very good team, so his opportunity is far more limited, even in the preseason. Hayward is 11th with 22.7mpg. If he were getting the 35.3mpg that Wall is getting, he could probably be putting up like 15ppg 3.5rpg 3apg 1.2spg.

How is Larry Sanders doing? We are sure missing out on his lateral quickness.

Its very early. Anyone criticizing Gordo for his play doesn't understand the standard that applies to rookies. Almost all of them start out slowly. Only the unique talents dominate right away, and very few outside of them even start off playing well. Even for guys like Tyreke Evans and Stephen Curry, it took a month or so into the season to hit their stride. If Hayward isn't able to stay in the rotation come January-ish, then it might be time to be slightly disappointed. Even if that were to happen, it takes 3 seasons of shoddy play before you can really write someone that young off. I know its not popular in this world of instant judgment we live in, but patience is always the key when dealing with rookies. Hell, look at CJ. Dude has been playing for 5 years and is JUST NOW starting to look like a genuine NBA guy.

Gordo's stat line for the preseason:

MPG 22.9
FG% 38.6
3PT% 14.3
FT% 96.2
PTS 8.6
OREB 0.9
DREB 1.9
TOT 2.7
AST 1.9
STL 0.9
BLK 0.0
TO 1.6
PF 3.1

PER 40:

15.0/4.7/3.3/1.6 w/2.7 TOs...oh, yeah, and he would foul out before getting to 40mpg,