Anyone think Stockton was better than DWill is now?

[wizardg]

Dwill is killing right now imo. Only a few players effect the outcome of a game more than him. Kobe is not one of them. lol. And one of them is struggling in Miami.


His jumper, off the dribble game and clutchness put him in rare company.

[The59Sound]

Yes. Definitely. Stockton in his prime is head-and-shoulders above Williams.

[Bradford]

Can't say yet. Deron is still getting better.

[FJS]

It's difficult to say.

Stockton had Malone, Williams is doing fine being the franchise player.

Stockton had more love, and he will be always in our hearts. Williams should play at this level for a few more years and then we can decide.

[carrottop12]

Deron is doing some things that Stockton never had to do, namely being the go to scorer on the team that has faced quite a bit of diversity. He also won't ever play with someone as good as Karl Malone was, and honestly the best player he's played with to date (Boozer) was probably just about as good, maybe a little bit better than Hornacek when he was playing here.

However, our roster from 4-12 is far superior than anything Stockton ever played with imo. The Jazz had some decent role players over the years i.e. Malone, Russell, Corbin, Eisley... But never as complete a team as this with Millsap, Okur, Kirilenko all being on the team at the same time.

Stockton's savvy play also took the Jazz to two 6 game series against the greatest team to ever play basketball imo, including one where the Jazz were a jumpshot away from having a game 7 at home for the championship. I don't think Deron could have done that against Jordan, Pippen and the gang, and that wasn't even in Stockton's prime.

Deron is pretty quickly, if not already closing in on being the Jazz 3rd best player of all time over the likes of Dantley and Pete Maravich, he can just beat you in so many ways. He hits big shots frequently, he makes the right pass pretty much every time, especially when the game is on the line, and he has the ability to shut you down defensively late in games which he has shown several times.

He's a player.

[erudite23]

Deron is getting close, but Stockton was still better. If he continues adding to his game like he has, he has a legit chance at getting there.

[HammerDunk]

Stock still better than Deron. The gap is closing.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

It's impossible to say at this point in time, D-Will is still in the infancy of his career compared to the entirety of Stocktons' career. But even after Derons' career is over it will be nearly impossible to tell who is the better player. They are two completely different players....

Deron has a much bigger body and is much stronger than Stockton ever was. Deron has been asked to score much more than Stockton ever was. Deron plays with an entirely different set of rules than Stockton did (touch fouls, protecting the guards, etc.). Deron doesn't have a Karl Malone type player to play alongside of.

Stockton is one of the best passers in NBA history. Stockton is the all time leader in steals. Stockton played alongside Malone. Stockton played against the greatest player in NBA history. Stockton had one of the longest (productive) careers in NBA history.

Not sure if you can ever compare the two players and decide who is better...they are just so different in so many different aspects of the game...I would take Deron in certain circumstances just as I would take Stockton is certain circumstances....

[Jazz_Man_86]

Stockton is all time leader in assist and steals... And He is a John Stockton..

Deron Williams is Deron Williams. These two are totally different players.

Let's not compare Deron to John? DWill able to build his own future and prime in Utah. And he is doing it now.

All the question about the rings. John tried to do. Deron has more years ahead of him.

[Ming Kong!]

Yeah difficult to compare the two, and no disrespect to Williams, but Stockton is often considered the 2nd greatest PG of all time (to be fair, that's when people consider Robertson and West SG's, or combo guards). Regardless, Williams has to become an All-NBA caliber player, which IMO he's playing at right now, and he needs to win big, then I'll put him in his class. I definitely believe he has the potential, but it'll always be difficult to compare the two since for as great as Stockton was, he wasn't required to score, but in his better years he scored 17+ppg, while Malone was hovering in the 30ppg range, and still getting 14+apg, and not to mention getting 2.5-3+spg.

[DumbyTheWizard]

Stockton is the better passer and playmaker but Deron is a superior scorer so thats pretty close on the offensive end. Stock is a hard player to rate on D. Some think he is one of the best defensive guards but I just think he was amazing in jumping lanes but isnt a good man defender. Stock is still better then D-will in that end but the gap iasnt as big as there steal numbers would indicate to someone who never saw both play.

I'd take Stockton, but if D-Will didnt reach his prime yet (and I believe he didnt) it might be the other way around in no time.

[The59Sound]

Stockton is the better passer and playmaker but Deron is a superior scorer so thats pretty close on the offensive end. Stock is a hard player to rate on D. Some think he is one of the best defensive guards but I just think he was amazing in jumping lanes but isnt a good man defender. Stock is still better then D-will in that end but the gap iasnt as big as there steal numbers would indicate to someone who never saw both play.

I'd take Stockton, but if D-Will didnt reach his prime yet (and I believe he didnt) it might be the other way around in no time.

Stockton was a very good man-to-man defender in his prime. He could gamble in the passing lanes and still get back. But while his ability to play the lanes was still good as he got older, his ability to play quick guards straight-up was significantly diminished.

As for the scoring, I'd say Deron has the edge in that regard -- but not by as much as folks think. If Stockton had played with a lesser guy than Malone, he easily could have averaged 20+ points per game (and on better percentages than Deron probably).

[Racer X]

Gap is still mammoth as far as I am concerned.

Deron has been lucky to play with a far talented and deeper Jazz team than Stockton ever got to play with. If you look at the two Finals teams that Stockton and Malone took to the Finals ... its pretty ridiculous and they dont get enough respect for that.

Stockton would have averaged 20 assists a game if he got to play with Memo. AK in his prime would have been nice too.

[hoops4life]

I just want to make sure I am understanding correctly...

Most people have Stockton in the top 3 easily. He is argued as the greatest pg of all time by quite a few.

So you are saying that Deron Williams is already arguably the greatest pg to ever play the game?

[The59Sound]

I just want to make sure I am understanding correctly...

Most people have Stockton in the top 3 easily. He is argued as the greatest pg of all time by quite a few.

So you are saying that Deron Williams is already arguably the greatest pg to ever play the game?

I'd like to hear the answer to that too. Nowhere in the same zip code right now. It's insane to argue otherwise, in my opinion.

[@ndrew]

I love realGM for this bandwagon jumping. Instead of waiting for couple of years people are jumping to conclusions every fricking minute.
Games ago he was no better then Paul if you listen to some jerks like so-called Yahoo! Analysts and now he is the next big thing.

Tomorrow he is going to miss some shots and suddenly he is not even 2nd best PG of his class.
But that's probably the human nature, I guess.

[ComboGuardCity]

Stockton:
-Better Distributer
-Better Defender
-Higher Bball IQ

D-will
-Better haircut.

[FJS]

I just want to make sure I am understanding correctly...

Most people have Stockton in the top 3 easily. He is argued as the greatest pg of all time by quite a few.

So you are saying that Deron Williams is already arguably the greatest pg to ever play the game?

Right now we are comparing primes, because to be a top 3 you have to have a complete carreer.

Deron is putting 22 ppg, 10 apg and 4 rpg and 1.5 spg. This is not good as 17, 14,5, 3 and 3 spg but I think at least we can talk about it.
It's not a disrespect to Stockton to say that Deron is not good as him, but he is playing at a level who can be compared.

[wizardg]

Just wondering what you guys eyes were seeing.

DWill is waaaay better than Stock in my opinion. No one ever considered Stock the best PG in the league arguably or not. He amassed his ALL TIME numbers by longevity not by having any greatest of alltime individual seasons. Imagine T Archibald lead the league in scorijng and assists. something like 34p/12a yikes

Stockton was very good PG but was never a franchise player or a top three NBA point guard. Magic, Isiah Thomas were head and shoulders above him because they could do everything. Stockton could not get his own shot. He was a system player. picks, and give and goes, etc.

If need be Isiah could and would hit 3 straight 3s ... Stockton could only get 3s if you played off him. Magic was Magic.

A lot of Utah's playoff collapses were due to Stockton getting chewed up in the playoffs by athletic PGs

Kevin Johnson and Gary Payton owned Stock because athletically Stock was below average. KJ was cat quick and dunked on Akeeem. Payton was a great defender, leader, scorer and passer.
KJ and SGP could get any shot they wanted on stock at any time. And once Mark Eaton was gone quick PGs could get to the hoop at will against Stock who was a subpar man on man defender. He was great at playing the lanes but when your man is torching you... lane playing is not that important.


Even a no name like Robert Pack chewed Stockton up. Utah did barely win in 7 but Pack abused Stock.

Anyway thanks for sharing!
BTW I really like your team. As a Spurs fan besides the Lakers you guys are the team I'd least like to meet in the playoffs as of today. From what my eyes see DWill is the best players in the West.

[cjs55]

Really? 17/14 on 51%/41%/81% isn't a great season? It IS the greatest of all-time season for assists. You do realize Stockton holds that record, right? Most assists in one season.

Referencing Tiny Archibald is just silly. I could make the same argument against Magic. 34/12 dwarfs any of Magic's seasons. Is he a better point guard than Magic? Did Magic not have any great individual seasons? Once again, give me a break.

People are giving Rondo MVP consideration with 11/14 right now, lol. It's damn impressive to get 14 assists a game. And unlke Isiah, Stock could do it while keeping the turnovers down, with an incredible A/TO ratio. Also unlike Isiah, Stockton was always incredibly efficient from the field, scoring 14-17 ppg but always with a TS% that dwarfed Isiah's.

Stockton was definitely a top 3 NBA point guard for most of his career.

Can't get his own shot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ADlvxFVt8k