Deron is not a leader

CarrKeefe · Post #1 » by **CarrKeefe** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:02 am

Deron Williams is not a leader. He has amazing talent and has clearly almost single handedly at least kept us in this season, but he is not a leader and this team will continue to be mediocre as long as our best player is not a leader. His recent comments saying he's not one to give fiery speeches, he's not one to go and talk to the coaches about problems or make suggestions, and his dandy of a quote today regarding his "strained wrist"

“I told you right now I’m not playing,” he said. “You can go and continue to ask them, but I think I know if I’m playing or not.”

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/51144 ... e.html.csp

It all clicked that this team DOES have talent and it does have the ability to be a very dangerous team, but nobody is taking control and there is no leadership at all on this team. Sloan is unwilling ti simplify his system and expects players to conform to his system, and Sloan has never been one to make speeches and get the team behind him.

Deron whines after every loss, is not willing to step up and be a leader, and is now resorting to Boozer status by refusing to play with a strained wrist when the MRI came back negative and the team was calling it a game-time decision.

Stop whining and lead Deron. You've wanted this your team for awhile now. This is your team. Grow a pair and stop taking the backseat.

The59Sound · Post #2 » by **The59Sound** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:08 am

Nothing that hasn't been said already, but it's true.

EDIT: I'll take that back. The wrist stuff is new, and disappointing.

HammerDunk · Post #3 » by **HammerDunk** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:30 am

I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt. How many times has he played through injury or illness before? I think he is frustrated that he can't play, and that's why his comments were snippy. I wouldn't question his toughness. I'm sure it is a real injury, plus it's on the same wrist he has injured in the past.

Though, I do agree that his leadership skills need a lot of work.

The59Sound · Post #4 » by **The59Sound** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:32 am

Very fair, HD. No reason to make assumptions, when he hasn't really pulled that kind of thig in the past.

HammerDunk · Post #5 » by **HammerDunk** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:34 am

He's not sitting and pouting on the sidelines either, he is cheering the team on. I feel his negativity and frustration comes solely from losing. He is crazy competitive, and needs to learn to control his emotions when they are in a skid, but at least he isn't the opposite.

He and the team will bust out of this slump and put together some good games. Just look at NOH.

hoops4life · Post #6 » by **hoops4life** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:27 am

I don't think that he is a leader.

leorn · Post #7 » by **leorn** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:49 am

Deron is no motivational speaker, and he's not perfect, but he is definitely a leader. He put the team on his back vs the spurs with the flu and a messed up wrist. He rolled an ankle to the point Sloan was asking sending a sub and he limped down the floor and continued to play lights out. I think that was in the third.

He is learning some aspects of his leadership role (holding his tongue--even longer.) When they were about to slip out of the playoff race and give up on the season, he turned it up and fought through being sick and injuries. You can't tell me that the rest of the team didn't notice and feed off of his determination. That determination brought hope back vs the spurs and they were able to turn that hope into a win without their star player.

Deron has a lot of responsibility for the losing streak, and he also deserves credit for leading his team to ending it, and some of the amazing displays of heart during the hard-fought road victories we all enjoyed early in the season.

CarrKeefe · Post #8 » by **CarrKeefe** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:57 am

leorn wrote:Deron is no motivational speaker, and he's not perfect, but he is definitely a leader. He put the team on his back vs the spurs with the flu and a messed up wrist. He rolled an ankle to the point Sloan was asking sending a sub and he limped down the floor and continued to play lights out. I think that was in the third.

He is learning some aspects of his leadership role (holding his tongue--even longer.) When they were about to slip out of the playoff race and give up on the season, he turned it up and fought through being sick and injuries. You can't tell me that the rest of the team didn't notice and feed off of his determination. That determination brought hope back vs the spurs and they were able to turn that hope into a win without their star player.

Deron no questions leas by example on the floor. But when it comes to getting on players when they don't do their job (he did do this once with Gordon Hayward), he doesn't do that. When it comes time to voice concerns, frustrations, or possible adjustments with the coaching staff, he doesn't, and says he won't do it. The only time I see him open his mouth to voice concerns or criticize the team or anything of that nature is in front of a bunch of reporters and not to the team. He's got amazing talent, he's our best player, but this team, and any contending team needs a vocal leader who can rally his teammates. Deron cannot do that.

Deron has a lot of responsibility for the losing streak, and he also deserves credit for leading his team to ending it, and some of the amazing displays of heart during the hard-fought road victories we all enjoyed early in the season.

He deserves no credit for ending the losing streak. He sat out tonight with a "strained wrist".

leorn · Post #9 » by **leorn** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:25 am

leorn wrote:That determination brought hope back vs the spurs and they were able to turn that hope into a win without their star player.

Oh I didn't know he was on the bench tonight! My bad.

If you don't like Deron being the leader, you might consider a new team because he will be in Utah for as long as management can convince him to do so.

I'm glad that the losing streak is over so that threads like this can go away. It gets me pretty riled when people accuse Deron of pulling a Bozzer with an injury (the game after he plays out of his mind with a bum wrist, rolled ankle and the flu), and then nit pic until they find something wrong with him (which I agree there, he is not perfect).

Someone as competitive as he is will always going to be unhappy after a loss. Hopefully he can learn to control that. If that is the worst thing I have to put up with, I'm still happy to have him on the team. He contributions by far outweigh any negative impact he might have.

CarrKeefe · Post #10 » by **CarrKeefe** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:07 am

leorn wrote:If you don't like Deron being the leader, you might consider a new team because he will be in Utah for as long as management can convince him to do so.

Which will be a season and a half.

I'm glad that the losing streak is over so that threads like this can go away. It gets me pretty riled when people accuse Deron of pulling a Bozzer with an injury (the game after he plays out of his mind with a bum wrist, rolled ankle and the flu), and then nit pic until they find something wrong with him (which I agree there, he is not perfect).

It's a strained wrist. The MRI came back negative, the doctors called it a game-time decision, but he came out today at shootaround and declared he wasn't playing and that the reporters couldn't ask any questions about it. He's getting paid millions of dollars a year, the Jazz were against the ropes, at home, against a division team, and he wouldn't suit up because of a strained wrist. I love Deron, but as Jazz fans were witness to last season, EVERY game counts and means a lot in the Western Conference.

Someone as competitive as he is will always going to be unhappy after a loss. Hopefully he can learn to control that.

I never said he should control is emotions after a loss. I love that from him. What I don't love it that he only makes his comments or criticism through the press and he won't talk to his teammates or his coaches about his frustrations or how they can change or improve things. He needs to lead. He's got the tools, the Jazz being a small market team are spending the money, he just needs to help lead this team. It's no question his team. But until he does that, we ARE a 7-8 seed in the West.

HammerDunk · Post #11 » by **HammerDunk** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:18 am

If you watched the game, you would have noticed that he wasn't sulking on the bench or sitting on the 2nd row playing on his phone. He was very into the game, cheering on the other players and giving them props for good plays. You can't honestly think that he sat out this game because of anything other than his wrist injury strongly effecting his game. He could have sat out plenty of games this season, even during the losing streak for any number of reasons if he were really like that. I think he did the team a favor sitting out this game, because I doubt he would have been very effective.

I'm not sure what you want him to do. When he gets after guys on the court, it's controversy (Hayward thing) or he's just whining, when he doesn't, he doesn't care. If he calls out players to the press, he's a dbag, if he calls himself out to the press, he's apathetic. Who would be your model that you would have him follow? I honestly think he doesn't know what to do. I had hoped he would have figured it out by now, but I really don't know if it's in his mental makeup to be what you're asking for.

ColdBlue · Post #12 » by **ColdBlue** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:26 am

Defining what constitutes a leader by the criteria of the OP is pretty exclusive as well as pretty inaccuate. Deron being a motivator is not the simple solution to our problems, and the fact that he isn't a outspoken motivator doesn't detract from his skills in leading the team on the court. He is frustrated with a lackluster gameplan as am I. Does anyone have any doubt that Deron could put up 40 points a night? He is trying to execute a gameplan that isn't working.

It's hard to see this team only find success when it plays with desperation and comes back in games due to Deron taking games over and looking for his shot. Game after game after game our starting gameplan fails and we are constantly behind by 20 points. I find it assinine to think that this is due to a failure in any player to take the role as a motivational speaker.

TDIDDY · Post #13 » by **TDIDDY** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:12 am

The guy flat out has no leadership skills except to whine to the refs, hes been here how long I dont care how good you are that doesnt make you a leader it just makes you a great basketball player.... This team needs a true leader to win ball games and we dont have it!!

Deron went off in the second half why because coach P was sitting his rear on the bench and Deron need to show him he wants tobe an allstar. The year we went to the Western Confrence Finals was because Fisher was the true leader on this team and he took this young team and made us into believers and thats what we are missing on the court and in the locker room. They brought back Raja for this but hes not a leader either!!! So time to grow up Williams and show us if you have what it takes to lead this team!!

Primo · Post #14 » by **Primo** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:56 am

Would you take Andrea Bargnani for him? The man is a phenomenal leader and he dominated the caliper test. We would even throw in Linas Kleiza since AK47 isn't fairing too well this season. Bargnani can score 20+ with his eyes closed, so the scoring loss from trading Deron Williams wouldn't be too bad.

Primo just realized that you guys would be without a PG if you did the trade above. To make things work, you guys can add in AK47 and we'll trade you Jose Calderon. Calderon is a world warrior and a proven floor general that has led team Spain to many gold medals. You wouldn't even notice Deron Williams' absence with him manning the point. In fact, you would probably be having flashbacks of John Stockton. Both are white and move awkwardly. Jose might be lacking in the playmaking/defense/court vision/shooting department, but you can't have everything, right? Work with me here.

You guys would have the following lineup:

PG: Jose Calderon/ Ronnie Price
SG: Wesley Matthews/Ronnie Brewer
SF: Linas Kleiza
PF: Al Jefferson/Paul Millsap
C: Andrea Bargnani/Mehmet Okur

Maybe you could package Millsap and Okur for a shooter like Michael Redd. Primo thinks that this team would give the Lakers a run for their money.

Please let me know what you think.

Soul Patch · Post #15 » by **Soul Patch** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:31 am

I think I love Primo.

carrottop12 · Post #16 » by **carrottop12** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 pm

TDIDDY wrote:The year we went to the Western Confrence Finals was because Fisher was the true leader on this team and he took this young team and made us into believers and thats what we are missing on the court and in the locker room.

No.

We made the WCF that year because we have a match up advantage against the Rockets, and we faced the Golden State Warriors in the second round. When we played against a real contender we got knocked out of the playoffs in 5 games.

If you want the truth, the best teams are those that have good leadership from the coaching position, and we have that. Star player leadership is overrated imo. If you look at guys like Kobe and Jordan you see they weren't big time "leaders," they are just the most talented guys on the floor. What they did have is a coach who knows how to juggle their egos.

Deron gets surly, and he seems to get impatient at times, but he goes out there and plays most every single night and leaves it all of the floor. I don't think that is something you can take for granted. There are very few guys in the NBA who play every single play down the floor, and Deron is one of them.

I'm willing to bet after sitting this game out, Deron comes back and has a fantastic February and the Jazz go back to playing .666 basketball. I honestly believe sometimes a guy like Deron has to step back from the position he is in, readjust, and come back ready to give it his all. If you doubt he is going to do that you guys are crazy.

countrybama24 · Post #17 » by **countrybama24** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:19 pm

Deron's a leader. None of us know the conversations he has with the payers in private, during / before / after the game. What we do know is...

1. He doesn't give a big dramatic half-time speech (a lot of excellent coaches / leaders don't either)
2. He's pissed, and he's pissy in interviews (I would be too)
3. He had a little tiff with Hayward

I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he's a hard-working, constructive and dedicated franchise player, given what he's done in the past.

HammerDunk · Post #18 » by **HammerDunk** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:31 pm

Thinking about it, it's been said many times, and I actually appreciate, that he is extremely honest in his interviews. He never sugarcoats anything, and occasionally throws in some sarcasm to keep the media on their toes. I like that much better than Carlos PR Boozer and his everything is great all the time interviews. Deron is not about BS and speaks his mind, which gets him into trouble with the media and fans, but I like it. At least somebody is pissed about their losses. Nobody else seemed to have that vibe in their post game interviews.

Bat wrote:I honestly believe sometimes a guy like Deron has to step back from the position he is in, readjust, and come back ready to give it his all. If you doubt he is going to do that you guys are crazy.

This is exactly what I think. The guy is so all in all the time (except for a couple games this season, I think due to sickness), that he exhausts himself, and it takes a toll on him mentally. That's why I think it was good for him to sit this game and recoup some of that energy and get some outside perspective on this team. At least I hope that's what happens.

And it really makes me laugh at how you guys think Fisher was some amazing floor general with this team. Everyone hated him when he was here, and we still hate him now that he is gone. He may have taught a young DWill some things about playing PG in this league, but the dude was terrible for us. Talk about leaving his heart in LA.

BringtheD · Post #19 » by **BringtheD** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:35 pm

Whatever happened to leading by example, Dwill is pretty good at leaving it out there. You want him to give everybody a pep talk like he's the leader of a boyscout group, but because he's moody so he's not a good leader. Kobe struggled without shaq and when he wanted to be traded it was that people were saying the same thing, he was too dominating, couldn't be a good teammate and leader, you know dwill is trying to lead in other ways, so he's not the best rightnow, but he's getting better.

carrottop12 · Post #20 » by **carrottop12** » Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:48 pm

I think Deron also has an expectation that everyone on his team go out there and play hard and do their job with out having to have someone coddle them into doing it. Coaches and management are there to keep everyone working, I don't see that as Deron's role. His job is to go play basketball to the best of his ability, and I for one think he does that as well as anyone in the league.

If you remember a couple of times in the past Deron has missed games, seen the team succeed and come back playing better than before. Why would that be any different this time? Sometimes you have to step away from a problem to be able to see it fully.