RealGM

The last CJ thread was locked for no reason (not like it was a duplicate, and things hadn't turned volatile between posters). I'd at least like an explanation if this one is locked also.

Discussion points:

1) Why do you think Sloan continues to play him over Hayward (even in games where Gordon starts off great and CJ starts off horribly)?

2) Does CJ realize how selfish he plays? If not, is there any chance he'll actually figure out the game of basketball, or is he stuck in this mindset for the foreseeable future?

3) CJ is athletic enough to play competent defense, so why doesn't he? Is it laziness, a lack of defensive IQ, or something else?

4) Should we move him? And could we actually get anything for him?

Miles has been in the league for years and has always been a selfish player that never met a shot he didn't like, why would he change now? Its sad cause the guy has the tools to be a very nice all around player.

Hayward looks like hes trying to hard at times. Sloan is tough on rookies and probably gets on his ass about everything. Hayward has shown flashes that hes going to be a good basketball player but he plays too tentative at times afraid to make the wrong play so he doesen't make enough plays.

CJ is a JR smith, Kyle Korver, type boon when they hit bust when they miss night in night out.

He just doesn't have the awareness to become better then a scoring option off the bench and I honestly dont think he will ever be more then that.

Well...

1 - It could be a lot of things. From an ability stand point CJ is capable of almost anything so Sloan might give that more weight, also, in games were we need offense, CJ is basically our best playmaker out of DWill and finally, he's been here for 5 years, so Sloan at least trusts him a bit more, just because of that (anyone would too). It's no secret what our record is when he plays well.

2 - His role is scorer/playmaker off the bench. I think he plays to his role.

3 - I think (lack) of concentration. Last year in the playoffs he played relly good D on Melo (the other night too) and he's made strides this year. But needs to focus more IMO.

4 - I don't think we should move him. I just think Hayward needs more PT. But CJ's role as scorer playmaker off the bench is his best role and helps a lot more than many of you admit.

Narcist wrote:Hayward looks like hes trying to hard at times. Sloan is tough on rookies and probably gets on his ass about everything. Hayward has shown flashes that hes going to be a good basketball player but he plays too tentative at times afraid to make the wrong play so he doesen't make enough plays.

CJ is a JR smith, Kyle Korver, type boon when they hit bust when they miss night in night out.

He just doesn't have the awareness to become better then a scoring option off the bench and I honestly dont think he will ever be more then that.

This. CJ is our X factor. Not to mention one of the few guys on our team who is a shooter. This team literally goes as CJ goes, when he has a good game we win, when he plays poorly we lose. The coaches are telling CJ to shoot, so he is shooting. If you really want to vent about CJ, you should probably start with the coaches.

GP wrote:

Narcist wrote:Hayward looks like hes trying to hard at times. Sloan is tough on rookies and probably gets on his ass about everything. Hayward has shown flashes that hes going to be a good basketball player but he plays too tentative at times afraid to make the wrong play so he doesen't make enough plays.

CJ is a JR smith, Kyle Korver, type boon when they hit bust when they miss night in night out.

He just doesn't have the awareness to become better then a scoring option off the bench and I honestly dont think he will ever be more then that.

This. CJ is our X factor. Not to mention one of the few guys on our team who is a shooter. This team literally goes as CJ goes, when he has a good game we win, when he plays poorly we lose. The coaches are telling CJ to shoot, so he is shooting. If you really want to vent about CJ, you should probably start with the coaches.

This is exactly CJ's problem. He has finally been given a green light, and he can't pull his head out far enough to find a decent shot. CJ's biggest drawback is CJ. He thinks that because he has been given a green light, that he has to shoot every time he touches the ball. I agree that the Jazz go as CJ goes. I hate it, but it is true. But I will say, I'll bet there isn't a game we lose when CJ gets 4 or more assists. Problem is, the kid thinks assist is spelled A-S-S-C-J-M-I-L-E-S-I-S-T.

For you to even want to give CJ's minutes to Hayward shows me how little you know about this team or either player (59sound)

TDIDDY wrote:For you to even want to give CJ's minutes to Hayward shows me how little you know about this team or either player (59sound)

To start, I'd like to congratulate you on your first coherent sentence, aside from the missing period.

Hayward has clearly proved he is deserving of more minutes. Everyone else on the board sees it, regardless of their thoughts about CJ. His defense is excellent, he's found his shot, he moves well without the ball, and he cares about more than jacking up every jumper that comes his way.

I don't think I really need to say anything more than that, considering you started a thread called "Haywerd sucked" right after he scored ten points on 4-4 shooting in 15 minutes.

I don't know. Hayward just isn't...I don't know. I can't put my finger on it. I guess he just reminds my of, like, Matt Maloney, Jon Barry, Steve Blake, and Curtis Borchardt all mixed into one. You know?

Neon Black wrote:I don't know. Hayward just isn't...I don't know. I can't put my finger on it. I guess he just reminds my of, like, Matt Maloney, Jon Barry, Steve Blake, and Curtis Borchardt all mixed into one. You know?

Not even close. Whats your analysis here his skin color? Hes athletic and oh yea hes white get over it.

This thread should be locked due to blatant homerism.

ColdBlue wrote:This thread should be locked due to blatant homerism.

It's sort of anti-homerism, isn't it? The impetus for the thread was my feeling that CJ Miles plays selfishly and doesn't often positively contribute to my team of choice, and a discussion of why he isn't useful (though folks, as a couple have already, are free to disagree about his usefulness).

If Gordon Hayward wasn't here, I'd advocate giving Evans more minutes. Basically, I'd advocate giving minutes to anyone we had who wasn't a chucker.

The59Sound wrote:

ColdBlue wrote:This thread should be locked due to blatant homerism.

It's sort of anti-homerism, isn't it? The impetus for the thread was my feeling that CJ Miles plays selfishly and doesn't often positively contribute to my team of choice, and a discussion of why he isn't useful (though folks, as a couple have already, are free to disagree about his usefulness).

If Gordon Hayward wasn't here, I'd advocate giving Evans more minutes. Basically, I'd advocate giving minutes to anyone we had who wasn't a chucker.

I gotta agree. And I will say, The 59Sound is one of a handful of posters who stands by his posts. He isn't a flopper, and he seems to have some sense of what is happening on the team. Whether you agree with him or not, at least he isn't a whiny b*tch digging for something to complain about. Props 59, keep on keepin' on.

I was at the game last night, and there is no reason CJ should have been playing over gtime. Gordon actually played better D on durant, and was by far more efficient.

Like I have been saying for years he thinks he is MJ and also he is a poor mans version of JR smith.

At least in a year or 2 Gtime will be taking those minutes while CJ is either gone or reduced to a ronnie price role.

The thing that pisses me off the most about him is that he is probably the 2nd best player who can create for himself and also create for ohers, he just has tunnel vision so often.

Miles gets way too much credit for contributing to wins. Yes, when he "plays well" the Jazz are more likely to prevail. That said, even at his best he consistently makes questionable decisions and does not seem to possess a solid grasp of spacing or offensive flow. I suppose when people say CJ "played well" on a given night, what they really mean is that none of his stupid decisions cost the Jazz that particular game.

CJ's negative impact far outweighs his positive impact and I would love to see him moved.

QuantumMacgyver wrote:

GP wrote:
This. CJ is our X factor. Not to mention one of the few guys on our team who is a shooter. This team literally goes as CJ goes, when he has a good game we win, when he plays poorly we lose. The coaches are telling CJ to shoot, so he is shooting. If you really want to vent about CJ, you should probably start with the coaches.

This is exactly CJ's problem. He has finally been given a green light, and he can't pull his head out far enough to find a decent shot. CJ's biggest drawback is CJ. He thinks that because he has been given a green light, that he has to shoot every time he touches the ball. I agree that the Jazz go as CJ goes. I hate it, but it is true. But I will say, I'll bet there isn't a game we lose when CJ gets 4 or more assists. Problem is, the kid thinks assist is spelled A-S-S-C-J-M-I-L-E-S-I-S-T.

Good points. I'm not saying I agree with CJ and his shot selection, however, he's been given the green light to shoot. The kid does jack the ball and the coaches are ok with it. To me, if we are talking about a great coaching staff, they would immediately stop it if they didn't like it.

I look at CJ and I don't see a guy with a huge ego or a lot of selfishness.

He's a guy that is aware of his abilities to score. However I think a lack of in-game perspective and even court vision simply impair him from make good decisions sometimes. Just a theory. So in essence, he's a chucker not because he's a selfish thug like JR Smith but because the pressure he feels to live up to his ability forces bad shots and decisions.

I give him credit for adding some facets to his game and working hard; it's really not fair to judge his character like we do. He's a good guy with good intentions, but unfortunately it just isn't working out right now.

I don't think CJ's a JR Smith-type thug or a bad guy. He seems like a really nice kid in all his interviews. I don't doubt that he wants the team to succeed. I just think he has an inflated view of himself, and sees every game through a "CJ Miles is so MONEY!" prism.

The59Sound wrote:It's sort of anti-homerism, isn't it? The impetus for the thread was my feeling that CJ Miles plays selfishly and doesn't often positively contribute to my team of choice, and a discussion of why he isn't useful (though folks, as a couple have already, are free to disagree about his usefulness).

If Gordon Hayward wasn't here, I'd advocate giving Evans more minutes. Basically, I'd advocate giving minutes to anyone we had who wasn't a chucker.

I guess that is your story. It's a little too much of a stretch for me to think that CJ should be replaced by either rookie at this point. CJ's role is to come off the bench and score. Sure to the untrained eye you might think that CJ is chucking up shots, but to someone who understands the role of the 6th man... CJ's shot selection isn't horrible.

Are you seriously considering giving either rook this role? I would rather be labeled a homer than a moron.

QuantumMacgyver wrote:I gotta agree. And I will say, The 59Sound is one of a handful of posters who stands by his posts. He isn't a flopper, and he seems to have some sense of what is happening on the team. Whether you agree with him or not, at least he isn't a whiny b*tch digging for something to complain about. Props 59, keep on keepin' on.

Guys who stand by their posts don't need someone to step in and stand by them for support with a lip service post. Besides... he is complaining about CJ.