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Is there any on the court evidence that shows this kid is not capable of being a lead dog in 2 or 3 years?

The kid makes an impact when in the game, sure he needs more experience and to develop offense, but he has much better offense then what was being reported from the nets, also a solid rebounder, runs the floor well, a decent finisher (when he learns to use his body he will be better at finishing), stays within the offense, a very good big man defender both on ball and rotation, guard p&r very well.

Just really in love with this kid. Seriously.

Any negatives aside from foul trouble which gets better with time as well as fitness.

I've been pleasantly surprised by how polished (relatively) he is at this early stage. I think we were misled about the rawness of his game. Tons of things he can and should get better at, but he's already a solid contributor.

He has far better actual basketball skills than the nets fans told us. He isn't a freak athlete like Amare but he's far more skilled at this point. To think he is only 19 and already has this kind of understanding of defense, and prett god footwork I have no doubt he is going to be a 20/12 guy in a dew years.

Of course! He is hero for us. Nets gave us future star for current star and we will be best of deal in 3 years!

His footwork on offense has been astounding. Nobody warned us about that.

Neon Black wrote:His footwork on offense has been astounding. Nobody warned us about that.

Yes it has been, and I know this is a bad example. Last night ( NYK ) derrick got the ball in the post and went right by amare ( I know amare cant play D but its nice to see him go right at an allstar) now he didnt finish but got to the line.

I literally watched every second of that game just to watch gtime and favors.

Here's how Favors stacks up against other similar, current star players ( I couldn't find Garnett's info.). As you go down, the lines highlighted in red represent categories that Favors has an advantage in. Blue lines under Favor's name represent categories where he's the all-out leader. Green indicates a tie.

Bench = reps of 185 lbs.
Agility = lane-agility test
sprint = in seconds, covering 3/4 court.


Derick Favors

Height: 6' 8.75
Weight: 245
No Step Vert: 31.5
No Step Reach: 11' 9.5"
Max Vert: 35.5 tie w/ Stoudemire and Howard
Max Reach: 12' 1.5"
Bench: 14
Agility: 11.74
Sprint: 3.25- tie/ w Stoudemire


Dwight Howard

Height: 6' 9"
Weight: 240
No Step Vert: 30.5
No Step Reach: 11'.10"
Max Vert: 35.5
Max Reach: 12' 3"
Bench: 7
Agility: 11.21
Sprint: 3.14


Chris Bosh

Height: 6' 10.25"
Weight: 225
No Step Vert: 30.5
No Step Reach: 11'.75"
Max Vert: 33.0
Max Reach: 11' 10"
Bench: 9
Agility: 11.80
Sprint: 3.30


LaMarcus Aldridge

Height: 6'10"
Weight: 234
No Step Vert: 26.5
No Step Reach: 11'.45
Max Vert: 34.0
Max Reach: 12' 0"
Bench: 8
Agility: 12.02
Sprint: 3.43

Amare Stoudemire

Height: 6' 8.5
Weight: 233
No Step Vert: 32.0
No Step Reach: 11' 8.5"
Max Vert: 35.5
Max Reach: 12' 0.12"
Bench: 12
Agility: 11.19
Sprint: 3.25

It's pretty eye-opening actually. In 10 possible categories, Favors leads Aldridge in 5 and each other player in at least 6.

Then factor neck length in...a statistic that is widely considered a "waste of height" in a player. This considered, wingspan, reach and vert are more important factors than height.

On top of all of this, Only Howard was as young as Favors when drafted. Yet he still surpasses Howard in 6 important categories. At 19, he still has fairly significant growth potential.

Who knows how all of this will necessarily translate on the court; yet Favor's measurements are still very promising.

yonexpro1 wrote:

Neon Black wrote:His footwork on offense has been astounding. Nobody warned us about that.

Yes it has been, and I know this is a bad example. Last night ( NYK ) derrick got the ball in the post and went right by amare ( I know amare cant play D but its nice to see him go right at an allstar) now he didnt finish but got to the line.

I also liked that play. I half expected him to finish it with a reverse dunk (I think he could have).

I literally watched every second of that game just to watch gtime and favors.

I watched as much as I could for the same reason.

Great effort, but almost every other player that you mentioned had far stronger rookies seasons than Favor''s is having.

I'm glad that we have Favors, but he does not appear to be an "A tier" like most of the others you compared him to.

Hmmm very interesting. I would hope that this kid works hard during the offseason.

finnegan wrote:Great effort, but almost every other player that you mentioned had far stronger rookies seasons than Favor''s is having.

I'm glad that we have Favors, but he does not appear to be an "A tier" like most of the others you compared him to.

You know this already? John Stockton didn't exactly tear it up his rookie season.

No question Favors is A-tier plus 1.

He's young, he's quiet, he's more of an introvert and he's learned to quieten his emotions due to his family background and upbringing.

Once he trusts the Jazz and the players around him, you'll see more production. He'll start to develop at a rapid pace. The Jazz have a tendency when the chemistry is good to make players feel like they belong. That will have a big impact on Favors. Once he feels that, he'll have a sense of needing to achieve in order to pay back the people who are showing him the love.

Because he's not likely to be loud, boisterous or project a lot of emotion on or off the court, people are going to misread him. His box numbers will be big, probably 20 plus a night with many double's. Don't be fooled by his quiet demeanor. The extroverts tend to develop faster or bust faster. Favors is in the middle. He develop but a lot of people will miss the progress because he won't be rubbing their faces in it. No big show here, just putting for the dough.

finnegan wrote:Great effort, but almost every other player that you mentioned had far stronger rookies seasons than Favor''s is having.

I'm glad that we have Favors, but he does not appear to be an "A tier" like most of the others you compared him to.

Thanks.

But I'm not sure I agree:

Howard, Bosh and Stoudemire each player over 31mpg their rookie seasons. Aldridge Played 22mpg. Favors has played 19.

You look at stats, both basic and advanced, and Favors easily has a better rookie season than both Aldridge and Bosh. No discussion.

As for Amare/Dwight, I'll give you some advanced stats to help factor out the mpg differential and let you decide:

Stoudemire:

MPG: 31.3
PP36M: 15.5
BLK%: 2.5
TRB%: 15.9
eFG%: .473
TS% .530
PER: 16.2

Howard:
MPG: 32.6
PP36M: 13.2
BLK%: 3.6
TRB%: 17.3
eFG%: .520
TS% .571
PER: 17.2

Favors:
MPG: 19.3
PP36M: 12.2 (19.1 w/Jazz)
BLK%: 3.00
TRB%: 16.1
eFG%: .518
TS% .546
PER: 13.3

So Favor's scoring, blocking, rebounding and shooting %'s are right on par. His PER is lower. Keep in mind that Favors has been playing with scrubs all season whereas these other guys had better players on better teams than the Nets. That has been shown to increase PER and FG%. They also had more freedom and plenty of minutes to get comfortable with their games.

Also, although it's only been 5 games, Favor's #'s have skyrocketed with the Jazz, which hopefully is a good sign. He may be a player that gets better the more he is actually used - his significantly increased USG% with the Jazz may be a testament to that.

I'm not sure, but In my opinion, Favors is right on par to become like a Dwight Howard or an Amare with MUCH better defense...and I have little doubt he'll be better than the likes of Boozer, Bosh, and Aldridge.

I like your approach.

Just out of curiousity, how does Demarcus Cousin's compare, using the same approach? Also are there any other rookie big men who are standaouts, using your approach?

Those comparisons are very favorable (no pun intended) and hopefully he can get some more playing time down the stretch. I feel that the only thing holding him back is his aggressiveness. He seem very subdued right now, which understandable for all he has gone through this year. He is trying to learn the NBA game only to have switch systems in the middle of the season. Also, playing behind Milsap and Jefferson will only help game.
I was sold on his athleticism and skill on two plays. One was the breakaway dunk in the Detroit game where he was fouled but was still able to dunk the ball over his head. The second was the fall away jumper where he was pivoting behind the back board was still able to make the shot.

I've really liked what I've seen from Favors so far and I think he has all of the tools to be a terrific two-way big man, but I'm not ready to get carried away the way that some of you are just yet. I might just be bracing myself for disappointment, but I'm not sure banking on a raw, unassertive 19 year old becoming the next Dwight Howard is all that realistic. If he has the insane drive and motor that superstars tend to have, he could get there, but it's hardly a guarantee; not many guys have that and not many guys reach the level Dwight plays at. I'm fairly confident Favors can end up in the Tyson Chandler and Al Horford range and, for now, I'm going to set my expectations in that range. I'd obviously be pleasantly surprised if he ends up exceeding my relatively modest expectations.

I think Al Horford is a realistic target.

I think Horford is the minimum the Jazz can expect within another year, perhaps two at the most.

I think Favors is north of Horford in potential, but Horford is still developing. Horford is 5 years older than Favors and has 95% of his adult body.

Horford would be decent or a nene type. However give the kid time, I dont wanna see any threads bashing him until he is at least 22.

I could see him becoming allstar caliber like almost everyone has said.

Just really hope that he is committed during the offseason and off the court.

The big difference between Favors as a rook and the other guys is his high TO rate and his lack of passing ability. Dwight and Derrick actually had very similar talents in their rookie seasons, with Dwight just being a tad better at, well, everything. The only read disparity between the two was in their FT rate and FT%, which is manifested in Dwight's superior TS% despite the fact that they shot almost exactly the same from the field. Derrick's FTR is about .40ish, with Dwight clocking in at .60ish. Also, Dwight's 67% from the stripe as a rookie is over 8% higher than his next best season.

I've always thought that Favors best comparison was Dwight-lite, and I see no reason to believe otherwise now. Favors might be the PF version of Dwight. I doubt he ever becomes the great rebounder that Howard has become, but he'll still be an excellent one, and I think he'll have some of the same limitations offensively that D12 has, as well. I can see him peaking out at about 19ppg along with 11ish rpg and close to 2bpg. That's an All-Star talent and a guy that can anchor the interior of your team both offensively and defensively.