Gordon Doubters

[retiredcoach]

For those fans who still doubt Hayward’s value as the #9 pick, I think that view point is based on subjective evaluation and not objective facts.

Here are a few stats. Given Hayward’s lack of playing time early in the season in Sloan’s “rookies shouldn’t play system” and his slow start due to D-Will’s confidence boosting management style, these stats are amazing.

FG% among rookies for the season

Hayward 2nd

3pt percentage among rookies who have shot more than 40 3pt attempts for the season

Hayward 1st

Among ALL small forwards in the NBA (approximately 84 of them) in true shooting percentage which includes 3 pt, 2 pt and free throws

Hayward 25th Miles 51st

In true shooting percentage for ALL NBA players

Hayward 108th overall Miles 159th

Among ALL NBA players (approximately 450 of them) 3pt shots for players having taken more than 40 3pt shots

Hayward 5th

Overall FG% among all NBA players

Hayward 184th Miles 332nd Bell 331st Millsap 55th D-Will 45th

Kyle Korver FG% 0.437 Hayward 0.455 Kirilenko 0.467


Hayward is the 24th best rookie in assists and the 3rd best rookie SF. Among all SF’s in the league he’s 45th. He’s also 45th in blocked shots among all SF in the league, and he’s the 6th best shot blocker among the 12 rookie small forwards drafted in 2010 and still playing. He’s 5th in steals among rookie SF’s, and he’s 5th in rebounds among rookie SF’s. He’s 6th among rookie SF free throw shooters.

Looking at the composite of where Hayward ranks in FG%, 3pt%, steals, assists and rebounds, he's got one of most complete games of all rookies in the 2010 draft that made it. Sure bigs shoot a higher percentage and rebound better. They're sitting under the basket. It's the overall game that's the key, and Hayward's got a really good one.

For the ninth pick he is doing just fine considering the crap he's had to go through.

Kevin Durant told Earl Watson, he thought Hayward should have been starting. So put your doubt away and let's see how good Hayward can be next year.

[gojazzgo]

If your secondary point was that CJ Miles sucks, than I completely agree.

[retiredcoach]

by gojazzgo on Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:48 am
If your secondary point was that CJ Miles sucks, than I completely agree.

Go-Man, I threw CJ and Bell in for comparisons. I wasn't trying to make a specific point, but a lot of fans will probably have a similar conclusion to yours. However, CJ has played a lot of minutes, and it's taken him 6 years to get this far.

How good can Hayward be in 6 years?

[The59Sound]

The Hayward hate is really silly and cannot be substantiated. And the belief is so entrenched that nothing will sway people.

If Hayward has a big night offensively, people will claim he was "dominated by ____ on the other end." If he goes 0-3, but plays lock-down defense, people will say he's garbage on offense.

Sometimes, these same people will have a religious experience when CJ Miles scores 19 points on 21 shots.

[retiredcoach]

by The59Sound on Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:10 pm
Sometimes, these same people will have a religious experience when CJ Miles scores 19 points on 21 shots.

Well, I wouldn't say I have a religious experience when CJ scores 19 points on 21 shots, but anytime he's say 12 out of 15 overall or 5 for 5 from the 3 line, I have him pick out some lottery numbers for me.

[BringtheD]

The Hayward hate is really silly and cannot be substantiated. And the belief is so entrenched that nothing will sway people.

If Hayward has a big night offensively, people will claim he was "dominated by ____ on the other end." If he goes 0-3, but plays lock-down defense, people will say he's garbage on offense.

Sometimes, these same people will have a religious experience when CJ Miles scores 19 points on 21 shots.

The silliest reason to hate hayward would be because he's a whiteboy, so people have all these entrenched beliefs which are nonsense, and they have silly names for him which also entrench the same discriminatory profiles people have of utah. Its funny for everyone, hahahehe, then i really think these are the same woe is me people, I thought but I don't know. I'm not inclined to find silly names amusing and religious experiences happen when cj scores 19 points because you'll be praying cause you never know what you'll get, you can't build with a guy like that but hayward really looks like he's on the way.

[carrottop12]

The only real argument you could have is that you wanted Ed Davis in the lottery (me,) otherwise Hayward is as good a lottery pick at the 9 spot that the Jazz could have asked for.

I see no doubt that he's a bona fide starter, probably next year, and to have a 21 year old legit starter is great for the future of your franchise. Having answered questions on teams that are rebuilding is huge. I don't think you can argue that KOC made a fantastic pick, and I'm very happy to eat crow on this.

[babyjax13]

Well, I think there are a couple of players picked after him playing just as well: Xavier Henry, Ed Davis, Landry Fields, Jordan Crawford....but I have to say that I am happy with what we have and I really do like him more than all of the aforementioned players.

[StocktonShorts]

Hayward was so hated and doubted by most Jazz fans from the start that now that it's clear he's not a bust the pendulum has swung a bit too far in the other direction.

We get perhaps a bit too excited when he shows he's merely competent.

[Xsy]

Gordon Hayward is doing fantastic. Anyone who disagrees hasn't been watching Jazz games. He had a very slow start, but from here on out, he seems to be a legitimate NBA starter-caliber player.

[The59Sound]

HP, all signs point to him being much more than competent. I don't think RC, me, or anyone else is saying he's going to be an All Star. We're saying he's already proving his worth, and that he's going to be a very reliable, versatile, and high quality starter for years to come. That's worthy of the #9 pick, and as Bat indicated, it's great to have "one question answered" as we begin rebuilding.

[outerspacefella]

I was one of those who disliked the pick... to say the least...
However, Hayward's been playing some good basketball. His attitude has changed since "D-Will’s confidence boosting management style" (as retiredcoach put it).

Now I want to see if he can mantain it when the Jazz play for the serious spots again; that's the only doubt I have now, but I have to admit it's a quickly fading doubt...

[StocktonShorts]

Maybe I'm just projecting my feelings about him on you all then. I get excited when he does really mundane things well and it makes me question if maybe I had just set the bar really, really low.

[retiredcoach]

Here are some comparisons with the other rookie's mentioned. The biggest steal in the 2010 draft was Landry Fields. However, he was a Senior so he came in better prepared and more mature. At 39th he's a bargain and looking for a pay raise.

Age and position played suggest where a player should be in a particular category. For example a PF should have a higher shooting percentage than a SG and of course, more rebounds. However, an SG or PG should have more assists than a PF. A senior should do better than a Sophomore because of age and experience. Minutes played is also important. Fields got a lot of minutes early because he was on the Nicks. That helps the numbers and the development of a player.

Have fun handicapping the horses! These stats only compare the rookies to each other.

Davis drafted 13th position PF college Soph
Fields drafted 39th position SG college Senior
Hayward drafted 9th position SF college Soph
Henry drafted 12th position SG college Freshman
Crawford drafted 27th position SG college Soph

FG%

Davis 6th
Fields 18th
Hayward 22nd
Henry 41st
Crawford 50th

3pt Field Goals at Least 40 shots

Hayward 1st
Fields 7th
Crawford 23rd
Henry 31st
Davis not on list PF’s don’t usually shoot 3’s

Assists

Crawford 7th
Fields 10th
Hayward 24th
Davis 34th
Henry 39th

Rebounds

Davis 4th
Fields 5th
Crawford 28th
Hayward 34th
Henry 50th

Steals

Fields 7th
Crawford 8th
Davis 17th
Hayward 23rd
Henry 38th

Blocks

Davis 3rd
Hayward 29th
Fields 34th
Crawford 46th
Henry 48th

Fouls

Davis 5th
Fields 27th
Hayward 29th
Crawford 31st
Henry 33rd

Turnovers

Henry 15th
Davis 26th
Hayward 42nd
Fields 56th
Crawford 61

Free Throws

Crawford 4th
Fields 14th
Hayward 30th
Henry 40th
Davis 49th

Minutes

Fields 3rd
Davis 7th
Crawford 10th
Hayward 22nd
Henry 26th

[carrottop12]

Xavier Henry's shooting percentages are scary bad. 40/12/63 percentages are awful.

Hay's 45/45/69 give me a hard on. Not to mention his face.

[Nate505]

I'm still surprised there is hate for him. While he's hardly perfect, just by watching the games you can tell his basketball IQ is ridiculously high, he's a lot more athletic than people give him credit for, and he's a great passer for his position. His defense is a lot better than expected, and his shot is improving. He's really quite the well rounded basketball player. His confidence seems to be improving, and IMO, that's the only thing really holding him back from being a solid player in this league.

I never saw skills like this in Desahwn Stevenson as a rookie, and he's managed to stay in the league for over a decade now.

[Litany]

Xavier Henry's shooting percentages are scary bad. 40/12/63 percentages are awful.

Hay's 45/45/69 give me a hard on. Not to mention his face.

[HolyToledo]

I always liked the pick because he use to play PG in high school before his growth spurt in his junior and senior seasons, so I knew he had smarts and handles. I was a little worried about his inconsistent college shooting but he seems to have worked on it and shored that up pretty well. I was also worried about his toughness but he seems able to mix it up more as the season went along, and even blocked break away layups so I am exremely happy with the pick.

[Neon Black]

I always liked the pick because he use to play PG in high school before his growth spurt in his junior and senior seasons, so I knew he had smarts and handles.

Playing tennis at a high level probably didn't hurt his footwork too much either. The guy is pretty quick laterally, honestly...on O and D.

[schneiderjazz]

The one thing that really worried me is that Hayward would be a liability on defense. That's why I disliked the pick. Hayward is not only doing well on the defensive end, but he has also shown he can be a good shooter, passer, and ball handler. If he gets stronger and keeps working on his game, he'll be a great player IMO.